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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Swami]
    #3975614 -

"So any words written down on paper are automatically true?"

No, not just any words are true, but the scriptures are ALWAYS true, without error and providentially preserved. All true believers know this to be so, since God Himself has taught them this.


Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: fivepointer]
    #3975627 -

No, not just any words are true, but the scriptures are ALWAYS true, without error and providentially preserved. All true believers know this to be so, since God Himself has taught them this.

Yup folks - a fine example of self-authentification. We know these words are God's because the words themselves tell us so.  :rolleyes:

"For God so loved us, he gave us a brain..."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Swami]
    #3975684 -

Swami said:
Is this how the Easter myth got started?


I believe it is so. ?


Swami said:
I fail to see what's so objectionable...

Where kind sir, did I EVEN VAGUELY hint that the story was objectionable?


My bad. Mine ought to have been a reply to Zekebomb's razor. :smirk:


Swami said:
Do you often see things not there?


People tell me these things are not there. I am as yet unconvinced. :ooo:


--------------------
Seek not to rationalize hobgoblins. ~ Yeats

Edited by hobgoblin (03/27/05 12:28 PM)

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: hobgoblin]
    #3975838 -

3. It was a bullshit unsubstantiated story, that has somehow managed to linger within the human psyche.
4. I'm Jesus, and I'm taking my disciples with me tomorrow, pack your bags.
5. We celebrate Santa he isn't real.. we all know it yet we celebrate it... /applies that to Easter
6. The Cadberry Cream Egg's designers as part of a multinational corporation... works with the Illuminati and perpetuates Easter through hidden microchips within the center of the egg to one day attain world domination.
7. Who cares.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Swami]
    #3975941 -

The "Passover Plot" is not the only other alternative. Another distinct possibilty concerns the late date at which the four Biblical Gospels were written. They were, according to modern 'demythologizer' John Shelby Spong, public relations pieces that were constructed to be liturgical readings for the Jewish holiday calendar.

The earliest Christian writings are the genuine letters of Paul wherein he speaks of his encounters with the 'Resurrected' Christ, and nowhere speaks of a 'resusitated' body. The 'tomb narratives' were written in this story-book fashion known to Hebrews as 'midrash,' and were just that - stories intended to portray a spiritual truth or sacred mystery. However, the story-book or mythological flavor of the tomb narratives have been interpreted by the extraverted, materialistic and simplistic minds of huge portions of Humankind. Apparently, people of two millennia ago did not ask "Really?" after everything, expecting a scientifically or journalistically accurate account. Prescientific peoples were not all that critical in their thinking. After all, the Earth was flat and the physical lights of the heavens was the metaphysical Light from God's Throne piercing the dome of the sky.

Jews have long recognized four levels of interpretation of scriptural writings: literal, allegorical, symbolic and mystical. Only the fundamentalistic simpleton (unfortunately, the majority) fails to know this, as much as they fail to understand that early (read, 'genuine') Christianity was an entirely Jewish affair. Instead of getting into the mindset of a 1st century Jew, the modern simpleton simply proceeds from his/her own literal interpretation of symbols in literary form - the Gospels.

I think you will agree that the muddled thinking of most people, whether ancient or modern, really hasn't changed very much in two millennia.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3975942 -

Your logic is flawed. The simplest concept here is that he was a myth and that the story is symbolic. That is how to properly apply Occam's Razor.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3975951 -

I wish I had read your post before I posted. I like your interpretation... a mix of history and symbolism combined to form a legend is how I read you.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Swami]
    #3976827 -

there is no myth its called faith in someone who was more spiritualy enlightened then anyone when you die you'll see what I mean.


--------------------
By questioning death I have found the answer to life.

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3977022 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Your logic is flawed. The simplest concept here is that he was a myth and that the story is symbolic. That is how to properly apply Occam's Razor.


It's not that my logic is flawed, the problem is I don't know what this occam's razor is


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3977129 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
...I like your interpretation... a mix of history and symbolism combined to form a legend is how I read you.


I am glad I did read it and concurr, at least I support the view by my limited knowledge and experience and intuition.

A huge percentage of people really are dumb, and apparently can't help it or don't want to.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3977146 -

redgreenvines said:
Huehuecoyotl said:
...I like your interpretation... a mix of history and symbolism combined to form a legend is how I read you.


I am glad I did read it and concurr, at least I support the view by my limited knowledge and experience and intuition.

A huge percentage of people really are dumb, and apparently can't help it or don't want to.


Dumb is an insulting word, if they (we) can't help it as you say, then they do not deserve to be called with a word that they might find insulting. It is like calling a criple a legless freak.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3977596 -

Why are you quoting me. Are you calling me dumb? That is really funny. I think I grasped the notion Markos was explaining, that the writings about this subject are symbolic and carry deeper meaning. Your internal guru must still have hurt feelings...

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (03/27/05 10:27 PM)

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3977624 -

Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. Your defense of my person was less than stunning. You concede that although I am an idiot that I cannot help myself? How thoroughly generous...thank you. I find that often the people who consider themselves "enlightened" tend to become the nastiest when cornered...this is the source to which I attribute redgreenvines' insult. Anyway that is my opinion.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3978911 -

Markos... can you somehow become Pope and pass down your understanding to the Christian masses?

I can't tell you how much I wish ALL Christians shared your perspective.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3979359 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Why are you quoting me. Are you calling me dumb? That is really funny. I think I grasped the notion Markos was explaining, that the writings about this subject are symbolic and carry deeper meaning. Your internal guru must still have hurt feelings...


no I was agreeing with your appreciation of what markos was saying, and paraphrasing the following:

Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:...
I think you will agree that the muddled thinking of most people, whether ancient or modern, really hasn't changed very much in two millennia.


alas.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Sclorch]
    #3979388 -

Thanks for your vote of confidence Sclorch, but I do not think the Vatican would esteem me as anything but a heretic like the countless men and women of faith that they ruthlessly burned alive or in some unspeakable way tortured in the name of Christ. I do not want to head up the veritable 'Matrix' of Western Christianity. I would rather establish a temporary (all forms of everything are temporary) Christian 'cultus' at this juncture of history that recognizes the central mythos of Christ, and utilizes Mushrooms in the Body and Blood of the Eucharist. The Christian Native American Church uses Peyote similarly. In other words, "..the Red Pill."

It is not all that bizarre - certainly doesn't come close to Ozark snake-handling churches. Even the Quakers are an anomaly in Christendom with virtually no ritual, just quiet meditation. If ancient basilicas reveal that Amanita Muscaria shrooms were fed to snails, which people then consumed (which filtered out the toxins), the use of Mushrooms would serve as what Huxley called "Moksha Medicine" - 'medicine of liberation.' While one's soul is psychedelicized, one can more easily cut through the layers of encrusted world views, technology, modernism and materialism that tend to overlay our naked souls like demonic barnacles on our vehicles of Awareness.

How many of you have applied psychedelic thinking to Christian theological writings? Check out 'The Way of a Pilgrim' for example, or find a copy of the book that the Pilgrim carries: 'Writings From the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart' (Russian Orthodox manual of contemplation [if you can filter out the monkish morality]). How about writings by Dionysus the Areopagite? After a level 4 or 5 trip, one 'gets it' and this stuff formed the deep theologies of the Roman and especially the Orthodox Christian Church. Go on people - become your own 'church father.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Easter - which is more likely? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3979432 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. Your defense of my person was less than stunning. You concede that although I am an idiot that I cannot help myself? How thoroughly generous...thank you. I find that often the people who consider themselves "enlightened" tend to become the nastiest when cornered...this is the source to which I attribute redgreenvines' insult. Anyway that is my opinion.


Oh I'm sorry if you saw it like that, but that is far from what I ment when I wrote it.
First of all, I didn't know that comment about the dumb people was aimed at you,I thought it was aimed at others, like me, so I didn't defend you, but I defended myself in a way.
I hope you read this in time, because I'm embrarrased now by how you interpreted my post.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: an aside per "dumbness" [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3979597 -

this may be an apocryphal (in the modern sense of "false or spurious", as opposed to the more orginal meaning of "hidden or concealed") story, but it may apply a bit here concerning the ignorance of the masses:

once upon a time, j r "bob" dobbs (church of the subgenius) & l ron hubbard (dianetics; church of scientology) were in an elevator together in texas, & hubbard revealed a secret teaching (related in spirit to an operation described by g i gurdjieff as "shearing of the sheep")...
and the deep secret was this:
consider how dumb the "average guy" is...
then consider what "average" means...
now, realize that half of the population is even dumber than that mythical "average guy"...


("now you can begin to harvest $$$" would seem to be the final step in the process, hehheh...) :wink: ...
(& look at the unspeakably averageguy that the majority of voters were duped into accepting as their fearless leader in 2001 & still occupies the oval office....) :frown: ...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: an aside per "dumbness" [Re: gnrm23]
    #3979667 -

at times like this,
it is easy for everybody to get off of the same page, or very hard for more than just a few to follow the conversation synchronously, so what I see happenning, to prevent total anarchy and confusion, is the introduction of a symbolic ceremony that shows as much respect as possible for every single thing in scope.

hence the mass.
pass the eucharist please.
(do we say catsup or ketchup?)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: an aside per "dumbness" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3979810 -

do we say catsup or ketchup?

c'mon its ketch-up no matter the spelling you know that! j/k


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

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