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Offlinepsychomime
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I need some christian loving!
    #4496239 - 08/04/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, so a couple weeks back I was approached by two guys from one of the christian groups on campus. I quite like talking to religious types who approach me because I enjoy probing their understanding of life, the universe and everything. usually these interactions end when said religious type gets bored/fustrated/angry with me after a lengthy debate on such issues as bigotry, misogyny, science and so forth. Now I for one am a questioner, a scientist. Things need to make sense in a scientific framework for me to accept it. trouble is, these two guys I met were really engaging. they listened to me without bigotry. these people are not the monsters I have always associated with the church. Now I don't know what to do. I can't dismiss them as misguided, I admire their faith and ability to answer my questions with intelligent humility. I would feel honoured to be associated with such people but I can't reconcile christianity with science. is it one or the other? can anyone share similar experience or give me some advice?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496269 - 08/04/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't run into these Christians with the ability to answer my questions with" intellegent humility". :grin: But if you found some, you can befriend them without being a Christian. If they can't befriend you without you being Christian then that would tell you something right there. Either way, problem solved. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: Icelander]
    #4496281 - 08/04/05 08:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

They're people first, Christians second.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: freddurgan]
    #4496289 - 08/04/05 08:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Many christians don't agree. My dad is one of them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSerioOria
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Registered: 07/23/05
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496292 - 08/04/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

yes, well in my opinion its not an issue of whether scientifically the religion is right, because by definition a religion explains what a scientist has been unable to explain. I really dont have christian friends, but thats mainly because i never run into these types that can respond maturely and without bigotry, all of them where i live are bible thumping republicans. But its great you have found people like this, just try to be their friends and as Icelander said if they wont be your friend because your not religious, it should tell you something about them as people.


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: SerioOria]
    #4496308 - 08/04/05 08:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SerioOria said:
if they wont be your friend because your not religious, it should tell you something about them as people.




Exactly.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: Icelander]
    #4496323 - 08/04/05 08:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't run into these Christians with the ability to answer my questions with" intellegent humility". :grin: But if you found some, you can befriend them without being a Christian. If they can't befriend you without you being Christian then that would tell you something right there. Either way, problem solved. :mushroom2:




yes, thats a really good point! hmmmm I got into this new philosophy (pioneered by gettinjiggywithit in this thread) that involves placing personal limits to focus effort in my life and I'm wondering if this is the way to go?


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: SerioOria]
    #4496337 - 08/04/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SerioOria said:
yes, well in my opinion its not an issue of whether scientifically the religion is right, because by definition a religion explains what a scientist has been unable to explain.




well bits like where we come from, how we got here, miracles and so on are what bother me because science and religion have very different views on the matter


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Offlinedeff
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496350 - 08/04/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

friends with benefits?

am I right?  :naughty:


--------------------



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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496365 - 08/04/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psychomime said:
Ok, so a couple weeks back I was approached by two guys from one of the christian groups on campus. I quite like talking to religious types who approach me because I enjoy probing their understanding of life, the universe and everything. usually these interactions end when said religious type gets bored/fustrated/angry with me after a lengthy debate on such issues as bigotry, misogyny, science and so forth. Now I for one am a questioner, a scientist. Things need to make sense in a scientific framework for me to accept it. trouble is, these two guys I met were really engaging. they listened to me without bigotry. these people are not the monsters I have always associated with the church. Now I don't know what to do. I can't dismiss them as misguided, I admire their faith and ability to answer my questions with intelligent humility. I would feel honoured to be associated with such people but I can't reconcile christianity with science. is it one or the other? can anyone share similar experience or give me some advice?





First of all, it's not their understanding of life, it has been passed from others unto them.
Second, what does it mean to "make sense in scientific framework"?
How can things make sense to you in a scientific framework when you are not even the best scientist on earth. And best scientists on earth are just just children trying to understand things that are on the top shelf. A really good scientist, is the one that nothing really makes sense to. Making sense of things is a good sign that you are being misled. Universe is too complicated for a 21st century human brain.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496430 - 08/04/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
First of all, it's not their understanding of life, it has been passed from others unto them.
Second, what does it mean to "make sense in scientific framework"?
How can things make sense to you in a scientific framework when you are not even the best scientist on earth. And best scientists on earth are just just children trying to understand things that are on the top shelf. A really good scientist, is the one that nothing really makes sense to. Making sense of things is a good sign that you are being misled. Universe is too complicated for a 21st century human brain.




:smile: ok I'll take this on even though you're nitpicking.

First. Yes, it is their understanding. they interpret the world through the religious framework they've been given just as I interpret it through the scientific one i have been given.

Second. I do not have to be the "best scientist on earth" to interpret things scientifically. Are you trying to say that people shouldn't try to make conclusions about the world they live in because it's "too complicated"? are you an amoeba?

Third. "A really good scientist, is the one that nothing really makes sense to. Making sense of things is a good sign that you are being misled. Universe is too complicated for a 21st century human brain."

this has to be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. Frankly I think you're trying to make yourself appear enlightened by waffling on about how anyone seeking truth is wasting their time. I fail to see how your post added anything of value to this discussion.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: deff]
    #4496443 - 08/04/05 09:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
friends with benefits?

am I right?  :naughty:




:borfase:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496463 - 08/04/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

as a scientist you can only know a part of the truth, and a part of truth is not enough to make sense of things.

If you listen to the greatest scientist of our and past times, you will see that they always keep saying how they have found more and more questions and that they know so little.

We are so "smart" yet we don't know how to travel to other galaxies, we don't know how to make ourself imortal, we are still dieing, even though we don't want to.
Consider the size of space, and consider our force in this space, it is so little.
If we knew the whole truth, we would be able to influence the entire universe and be gods.

The end of science is becoming a god, and how much close are we to that? well maybe 0.00000001% of that.

And I'm not trying to appear my self as enlightened. On the contrary, I am trying to promote unenlightenment.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496493 - 08/04/05 09:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Even if one can only know part of the truth, what makes it's pursuit any less worthwhile? do you propose that being ignorant is better? being smart enough to go to other galaxies and so on is irrelevant.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496549 - 08/04/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Is irrelevant? As soon as you know the true structure of the universe, you have all the knowledge that you need to build a vehicle to go anywhere in one second.

You can stay home if you like, but being ABLE to do is is an indicator that you know the truth.

I'm not saying people should not look for the truth. I'm saying that they should keep looking for it, but at this point nothing can really make sense becuase there is not enough data. And no thing can be fully explained unless you know everything because everything is tied together. All we can do now is partially explain things, enough to construct these simple machines that help us live.

For example, can you really explain how your computer is working? sure you can disect it down to electrons, but then what? why is electron there? Why is there existence instead of darkness and nonexistence?
why does anything change in the universe? What is force anyway?
What is matter? And why is matter? what does it mean to exist?
And how did it came from nonexistence?

you can not explain how your computer works down to its roots unless you know why there is motion and existence in the first place


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4496563 - 08/04/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

man, you've shot off on some buttcrazy tangent. are you high?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496580 - 08/04/05 09:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

no, I'm fine


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496585 - 08/04/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nope, this is my friend Oldwoodspector. :cool: :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496637 - 08/04/05 09:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:smile: well a friend of icelander is a friend of mine :hippie: no hard feelings :heart: however I am not going to continue our discussion OWS 'cos we aren't on the same page, damn we're not even reading the same book!


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: I need some christian loving! [Re: psychomime]
    #4496649 - 08/04/05 09:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

:lol: who said anything about feelings


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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