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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
Home Sweet Home

Registered: 10/17/02
Posts: 1,265
Loc: Atlanta
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.)
    #2286508 - 01/30/04 09:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Pondering what jpod was writing about in the Christian Accountability thread, could it be that morals originated not with the development of a faith-based abstraction, rather morals are already programmed in the brain. Since we are social creatures and have been living in communities for possibly millions of years, basic morals (i.e. not going off on a murderous rampage, simple respect and decency)were developed because they are  nesseccary for the social structure of our communities. 
My point is that it is more than probable that morals originated long before religion, and that moral concepts were simply integrated into Christianity and other world religions. Christians love to say that the 10 commandments provide a way to live, and that it was an invention of "their God".
Poo on that. :grin:


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InvisibleStipe
Hunter -Gatherer

Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 93
Re: Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.) [Re: joeshitragpicker]
    #2286514 - 01/30/04 09:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Morals originate from necessity not religion.


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InvisibleStipe
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Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 93
Re: Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.) [Re: Stipe]
    #2286550 - 01/30/04 10:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A thinking person, dependent on others will develop morals as a means for survival. Independent civilizations are the product of evolving morality. One set of morals is better suited to a people, subject to the specific existence, and replaces or changes the pre-existing set of morals. Religion aims to preserve one set of morals as superior to another but it is not that simple. If you look at the bible and its core teachings, it?s a good survival guide for an interdependent civilization. However, would morals develop independent of religion? Yes, because that?s what works. Are religious teachings the law? No, morality evolves.

So Christianity has its core beliefs, which address the workings of civilization. A more interesting question that arises from this is what core beliefs do religions share in common? Worded differently: If morality is a survival tactic, then what tactics are universal?


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Invisiblejpod
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Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 107
Loc: DeeSee
Re: Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.) [Re: Stipe]
    #2286764 - 01/30/04 12:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Stipe said:
A thinking person, dependent on others will develop morals as a means for survival. Independent civilizations are the product of evolving morality. One set of morals is better suited to a people, subject to the specific existence, and replaces or changes the pre-existing set of morals. Religion aims to preserve one set of morals as superior to another but it is not that simple. If you look at the bible and its core teachings, it?s a good survival guide for an interdependent civilization. However, would morals develop independent of religion? Yes, because that?s what works. Are religious teachings the law? No, morality evolves.

So Christianity has its core beliefs, which address the workings of civilization. A more interesting question that arises from this is what core beliefs do religions share in common? Worded differently: If morality is a survival tactic, then what tactics are universal?




If morality were developed as a means of the survival of the species, dependant on a particular people and circumstance, this then logically indicates that the moral ideals are indeed subjective. If it is right for one person and circumstance, but wrong for another, there can be no truely objective right and wrong within the whole. It is reasonable to assume that if carried out, this would inevitably lead towards a chaotic society due to each person doing whatever they want within need for restraint. In a subjective system, if someone attempts to enforce their particular morals on individual, he cannot be right and he cannot be wrong. Even if there are only objective morals intrinsic to a particular group of circumstances and people, they still must be ultimately subjective and therefore susceptible to the same scrutiny as a completely subjective ethical code.


Edited by jpod (01/30/04 12:29 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.) [Re: jpod]
    #2286784 - 01/30/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There was a TV expose about Amercian businessmen flying to Thailand to bang young prostitutes. Prosititution is legal there and the girls may be as young as 13 or 14 (not sure).

The interviewer asked one businessman if he had sex with underaged girls here in the USA? He replied, "No, it is not legal." In a whiny voice, the moralistic interviewer asked, "Then how do you justify doing that in Thailand?" The unapologetic businessman flatly replied, "Because it is legal there."

The interviewer sputtered, "But, but, don't you feel ashamed? Don't you feel it is wrong?" Once again the businessman unabashedly replied, "That is up to the people of Thailand, is it not?"


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblejpod
Stranger

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 107
Loc: DeeSee
Re: Morals & religion (christian accountabilty cont.) [Re: Swami]
    #2286809 - 01/30/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Is ultimate right and wrong no more than an issue of legality? Obviously, at some point in time, such an issue was determined to be either legal or illegal by a individual or group of individuals. How does one decide whether or not the original decision on legality is correct?


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