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Offlinecosmicchic
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 131
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Albert Einstien on Religion
    #2621989 - 04/30/04 04:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is taken from a book caled "Ideas and Opinions", by Albert Einstien.

To set up the following, he was first talking about how religion was fear based and then how some, particularly those in the Far East, developed into being moral based. Then goes on to say that Budhism was the closest that came to this;

In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it COSMIC religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it. The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prision and he wants to experience the Universe as a single significant whole. In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive for those who are receptive to it. The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment enertain the idea of a God who interferes in the course of events-provided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of casaulity really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally for moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is inconcievable to him for the simple reason that a mans actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in Gods eyes he cannot be held in judgment for the motions anymore than an inanimate object is held in judgment for it's motions. (like the growth of a tree). A mans ethical behavior should be based effectually on compassion, education and societies needs: no religious basis is neccesary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. Kepler and Newton must have had to enable themselves to spend years of solitary labor in distangling the principles of celestial mechanics. Such men have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide throughout the world and centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is COSMIC religious feeling that gives man such strength.

End of exerpt


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2622163 - 04/30/04 05:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

a tree is inanimate? it's not an animal, fine, but inanimate?

so, astrophysics has no will. and chemestry has no will. and according to (you? einstein?) a tree has no will.

so why is it that it is my 'will' to write this reply?


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We have to answer our own prayers


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2622244 - 04/30/04 05:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps a tree has a will to grow a certain way. Let alone we grow our certain way and think our certain way. Does a tree think like we do no? No evidence of that yet. Could a tree perhaps feel pain? Yes. Physical pain of course, but emotional pain? Nothing discovered shows us that. But a tree is an important entity in all our lives. So be it this inanimate object has a life just as well.


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Evolution of Time.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: Droz]
    #2622268 - 04/30/04 05:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A tree can feel pain????? You want to explain just what mechanism it uses for this. A tree has a will???? You might just as well argue that sodium and chlorine atoms prefer to be in heterogenous, monogamous relationships.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: Droz]
    #2622345 - 04/30/04 05:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

congrats on post 666, btw


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We have to answer our own prayers


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2622941 - 04/30/04 08:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

For those who would like to read the full text of this, I posted it a while back in this thread.


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BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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OfflineLux
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Registered: 04/21/04
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2622980 - 04/30/04 08:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I am no one to match Einstien on an intellectual level, I consider myself somewhat stupid actually. One big flaw that I see though, which is common in western man is the belief that everything is dead instead of the realization that everything is alive.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: Lux]
    #2623001 - 04/30/04 08:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

ding! we have a winner.


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We have to answer our own prayers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2623134 - 04/30/04 09:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So, everything is alive, huh. In one pontificatory swoop you have removed any meaning whatsoever from a very useful word. Oh well, I shall miss it, it was a good, simple word and it had it's uses but now it is no more.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2623180 - 04/30/04 09:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

you're telling me a tree has no idea it has been injured? When a fire or an axe damages it, the tree just ignores that damage? No. it repairs itself. Just because it doesn't yelp out in pain, you think that it cannot "feel."


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2623223 - 04/30/04 09:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A tree doesn't have any ideas at all. It doesn't have a mechanism to generate them. My belief that it doesn't feel isn't based on the fact that it doesn't scream. I think it doesn't feel based on the fact that it doesn't have a neural network, which, as far as I can tell, is a prerequisite for feeling. You want to channel some supernatural soul mumbo-jumbo for a tree, go ahead, but I think it's nonsense. As for everything being alive, well then, why have the word at all


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
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Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2623230 - 04/30/04 09:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

chemical reactions can be theorized, they're generally the same. So they must be inanimate, right, I mean, they never chose a different affinity.

But people cannot be predetermined like chemicals right? Thats why life insurance doesn't work. That's why no one bothers to invest in trendy stocks.

People are meat machines. Our actions are calculated on big scales all the time. you just think you have free will and rocks dont because you're synapses fire so fast you're on a different time scale than other life forms.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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InvisibleMellowMood
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Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
Loc: in the vast
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2623244 - 04/30/04 09:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I read this so diferently...and its kinda trippin my out idk

"a mans actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in Gods eyes he cannot be held in judgment for the motions anymore than an inanimate object is held in judgment for it's motions. (like the growth of a tree)." Determined by necessity external and internal...does not a tree need light externally and nutrients vitamins internaly...The growth of a tree is a motion determined by necessity...external and internal...Am i wrong? flame me or whatever im a newb but i feel this whole philosphy strongly.


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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InvisibleMellowMood
Dreamin Man
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
Loc: in the vast
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: MellowMood]
    #2623249 - 04/30/04 09:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You cant blame a tree for growing just like you cant blame a person for being...bad and good...
damn this is freakin me out. Packin a bowl...


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: MellowMood]
    #2623259 - 04/30/04 10:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

but, religiously, a person (supposedly) has the choise between being good and being bad/ doing good and bad things. A tree (according to zap) doesn't have any choices to make.

err, right?


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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Offlinecosmicchic
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 131
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2623289 - 04/30/04 10:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The point is that humans make good and bad choices out of necessity. For a father with starving children, stealing food is a right good and neccesary action to save their lives. To the person he stole it from- the action was bad and wrong.

God just watches it all and laughs. Nothing we do kills Gods blissful buzz! Gods like, "when you people decide to remember me in you- you can have whatever you want." In the mean time we must look like it's retarded off spring - shootin ourselves in the ass and chasing our own tails as if they were separate from us.

Mellow- you are cracking me up!

love,
cindy


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InvisibleMellowMood
Dreamin Man
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
Loc: in the vast
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2623294 - 04/30/04 10:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

But this isnt oridinary religion its COSMIC religion.

"The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment enertain the idea of a God who interferes in the course of events-provided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of casaulity really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally for moral religion."
You are born good/bad on certain levels of severity (perhaps a "bad seed" so to speak". If this is true then that would naturally influence your actions one way or another or both ways who knows. But i do know that I know people with naturally evil intent maybe influenced by bad childhood experience and just naturally evil...


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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InvisibleMellowMood
Dreamin Man
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
Loc: in the vast
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: MellowMood]
    #2623309 - 04/30/04 10:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Any time Cosmic...im hear for your pleasure...and gods i guess


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: MellowMood]
    #2623331 - 04/30/04 10:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

oic. well what about the person who has no use for good v. evil.

Einstein knew it's all relative, one mans vice is another mans virtue.

Damn Calvanists ruining my fun.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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InvisibleMellowMood
Dreamin Man
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
Loc: in the vast
Re: Albert Einstien on Religion [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2623442 - 04/30/04 11:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I worded that all wrong. There is no good and evil...relatively. There are only natural instincts all living things have. Humans labeled what is bad and good...but its just instinct


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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