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InvisibletrendalM
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Einstein: Religion and Science
    #2265076 - 01/23/04 09:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Religion and Science
by Albert Einstein
Nov 9, 1930
New York Times Magazine

Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One has to keep this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand spiritual movements and their development. Feeling and longing are the motive force behind all human endeavor and human creation, in however exalted a guise the latter may present themselves to us. Now what are the feelings and needs that have led men to religious thought and belief in the widest sense of the words? A little consideration will suffice to show us that the most varying emotions preside over the birth of religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is above all fear that evokes religious notions - fear of hunger, wild beasts, sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of causal connections is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates illusory beings more or less analogous to itself on whose wills and actions these fearful happenings depend. Thus one tries to secure the favor of these beings by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices which, according to the tradition handed down from generation to generation, propitiate them or make them well disposed toward a mortal. In this sense I am speaking of a religion of fear. This, though not created, is in an important degree stabilized by the formation of a special priestly caste which sets itself up as a mediator between the people and the beings they fear, and erects a hegemony on this basis. In many cases a leader or ruler or a privileged class whose position rests on other factors combines priestly functions with its secular authority in order to make the latter more secure; or the political rulers and the priestly caste make common cause in their own interests.

The social impulses are another source of the crystallization of religion. Fathers and mothers and the leaders of larger human communities are mortal and fallible. The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes; the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God. The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from the religion of fear to moral religion, a development continued in the New Testament. The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the peoples of the Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great step in peoples' lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard. The truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates. Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it. The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another. How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it. We thus arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion very different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically, one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of events - provided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of causality really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally little for social or moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man's actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motions it undergoes. Science has therefore been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death. It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the devotion without which pioneer work in theoretical science cannot be achieved are able to grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labor in disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical world, have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the world and through the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength. A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people.

http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/einstein_albert/einstein_albert_article1.shtml


trendal's note: my comments to come later, when I have some spare time...


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Anonymous

Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2265091 - 01/23/04 09:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: ]
    #2265370 - 01/23/04 12:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Einstein starts by giving a cause for Religion. I think he probably thought of Religion and Faith as two entirely different things - the former a creaton of Man, the latter a creation of "God" (be it a singular entity or cosmic-whole).

Faith, being an intrinsic property of humans (at least), has a cause outside of human existence. As such, it would probably not be fruitful to try explaining it from the perspective of the human experience.

Religion, being a creation of humans, has a cause which is a part of the human experience. Einstein does well in explaining it by way of human feeling and need (specifically, longing). His explanation of the causes of Religion are as good as any I could offer, so I won't try to elaborate there.

Next, Einstein turns to the "highest" of all forms of religion - cosmic religious feeling.

Cosmic religious feeling. The next "step" in religious evolution? It has been around since the beginning, as Einstien points out, but what can be said of its evolution? At times it certainly seems to me that there must be more people today who accept and feel this religious expression. Certainly, as Einstein stated, this type of "religion" pervades the depths of Science - which is in its own right a form of religion.

Which is the subject I would like the most feedback on, if possible. "A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people." A bold statement, to be sure, but one which I cannot dismiss either. Those true scientists who may read this will probably understand without any need of explanation...the goals of science are not to dethrone God...but to understand His mind.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2266507 - 01/23/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

excellent article. I agree completely

he makes the critical distinction between a personal, intervening, anthropomorphic God and the Logos, or "cosmic religious feeling" as he calls it. it's a huge difference that's lost on the "religious types" who insist that their limited view is the only one.

this is the more expansive view I was referring to in this thread


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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2267043 - 01/24/04 12:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Bringing this to the top so it doesn't get lost. Looks interesting.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Anonymous

Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2267720 - 01/24/04 08:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2268433 - 01/24/04 04:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, that was a great read. It is the first like sizable writing I have read by Einstein.. I love his style. I was actually somewhat surprised I totally got what he was saying. :wink:

I don't have much to say really, he said it well enough himself. All I would like to add is that it is that feeling of something more, which is actually something that I have called "cosmicness" myself, that keeps me going. I feel as if I am contributing towards something and that every day I get closer to knowing more... I'm here to experience and to create, and every time I seem to get lost in the game, I get a taste of that feeling again, and I continue..... :mushroom2:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2268538 - 01/24/04 05:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I was actually somewhat surprised I totally got what he was saying.

I think one of the marks of the "rare" genius is the ability to explain nearly anything so that others will understand!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2268717 - 01/24/04 06:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Something else this brings to mind is the idea that Science and Religion could be merged into a greater framework for understanding AND living in our universe.

I've talked to Shroomism about this on a few occaisions, and I'm pretty sure he agrees with me that Science and Religion are probably two opposite aspects of the same concept.

I have often wondered what could be accomplished if the differences between Science and Religion could ever be ironed out (hmmm...like GUT and the attempt to mate QM with Relativity???).


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Anonymous

Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2269587 - 01/24/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: ]
    #2269607 - 01/24/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The mystery is much like an addiction. It is what drives us towards an always-expanding knowledge...but for which there is no end. To have the Mystery end would be the end of us. As one peice becomes clear...still others appear fuzzy which we did not even notice before. I would have it no other way :smile:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Anonymous

Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2269686 - 01/25/04 12:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineFrog
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: trendal]
    #2269723 - 01/25/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have nothing to add. I will humbly suggest that Einstein said it "all" about organized religion, and said it very well.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Einstein: Religion and Science [Re: Frog]
    #2271133 - 01/25/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, Frog, it is kind of hard to argue against The Man :smirk:

One of the things I like about Einstein's writings is that he so often spoke in such a manner as to be sure everyone would understand his thoughts...but at the same time leaving little to no room for rebuttal!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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