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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Science and Religion are intimately related.
    #4636986 - 09/09/05 07:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Let's share our views on the subject. It doesn't matter if you agree or you don't. I think they seem to differ at superficiality but are in actually in perfect harmony.

In science "Mitosis" is the division of plant and animal cells.

Quote:

"Two events are required for successful cell reproduction. First, the "parent" cell must ensure that each new "daughter" cell receives a complete copy of its hereditary information. This information is transmitted in the form of complex molecules called DNA, and directs the various activities of the cell throughout its lifetime.

The second requirement is the partitioning of cytoplasm between the two daughter cells."




So conception is through duality. See how One becomes two and then three? Christ consciousness is The only pure reflection of God the Father in manifestation or creation. It is he who is the judge, the witness. And so he keeps creation according to the divine plan.

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

This sounds to me like he is exactly talking about karma. Action is intimately related with manifestation. It is very clear that he uses figurative speech to state that there are no random events.

Everything Jesus spoke was out of his conscious. His body was nothing more than the means to get his message across. And so should we see it the very same way. Only then can we fully grasp the wisdom therein.

I still wouldn't argue that there are no dogmas... but can't we pick what we eat?


Edited by Delusion_of_Self (09/09/05 07:35 AM)


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OfflineGulGen
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4637015 - 09/09/05 07:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Science is the process of believing only what you can observe.

Religion is the process of observing only what you can believe.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: GulGen]
    #4637493 - 09/09/05 12:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Science and spirituality are studying the same thing! Science allows us to understand god in a way we never could before. Science shows harmony, balance, and reciprocal relationships in all of nature.

To say that science is out to disprove god is ignorance. Science can only explain the world that god has created.

When I study science and math I feel like I'm learning something very profound that has meaning on more than just the obvious level. I am studying god's thoughts!

Math truly is a beautiful thing...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: dr0mni]
    #4637515 - 09/09/05 01:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Drop the term God and I might just agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGulGen
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: dr0mni]
    #4637585 - 09/09/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
To say that science is out to disprove god is ignorance.




That part I agree wholeheartedly with, and would like to add a corollary:
"To say that science is out (or able) to prove God is ignorance"

If we're going to blast the science zealots that claim certainty that God does not exist and that all is explainable by chance alone, then we must also fight those that try to use science (poorly) to prove the absolute certainty of the existence of their supreme being of choice. Science by definition studies only the natural world, God by definition is a supernatural being, ergo science cannot study God. There's plenty of room left for such a being to act in areas that are currently unexplained, but never can science require one, at most the answer becomes "we don't know." Likewise, the possibility of a god can't be disproven for the same reason that there is so much unknown.

It sounds like you're one of those that can have a strong religious side while still embracing science. Awesome, we need more of those people around. I get by fine enjoying science without any particular religious beliefs, but all too often people will embrace either side with the absolute certainty that anyone that accepts the other is full of idiots. I say if you can live in both worlds like you seem to, all the more power to ya.  :thumbup:


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Icelander]
    #4637593 - 09/09/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

why does it upset you? Is it because none of us can agree on what god is? One, single definition?

What if I replaced it with "The-Source-of-All-Being", "The-Ulimate-Nature-of-Reality", or "Universal-Consciousness"? Would that make you feel any better about accepting the idea that science and spirituality can coexist in a meaningful way?

Didn't god, in the Bible, say that his name was "I-am"? Eh? "Existance", "The-Isness", to simply be...

Don't be afraid... it's just a word.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: dr0mni]
    #4637632 - 09/09/05 01:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
why does it upset you? Is it because none of us can agree on what god is? One, single definition?

What if I replaced it with "The-Source-of-All-Being", "The-Ulimate-Nature-of-Reality", or "Universal-Consciousness"? Would that make you feel any better about accepting the idea that science and spirituality can coexist in a meaningful way?

Didn't god, in the Bible, say that his name was "I-am"? Eh? "Existance", "The-Isness", to simply be...

Don't be afraid... it's just a word.




Good points. :thumbup: The only way I am in "fear" of the term God is that it has such a human connotation. Many identify God in human attributes. This IMO is a mistake and a big one.

I like your other terms and feel they convey the idea much better. I like the term Tao.

I don't have any trouble myself reconciling Tao and Science. They are one in my book. I like science as I have said before, it is a good and fun tool and it has it's limits when you want to explore everything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: dr0mni]
    #4637647 - 09/09/05 01:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think I spent too many years thinking of God as Grumpy Oppressive Dominator. Whenever I read "God" in a book, post, article, I can almost hear my mind click shut. Only by an act of will can I return to my reading and take in the other points being made.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Veritas]
    #4637682 - 09/09/05 01:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What was your father like, in a nutshell, Veritas?
Honestly.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Veritas]
    #4637694 - 09/09/05 02:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps, it's not that god is given human attributes, but that humans are given godly attributes. We are simply a mirror right? An expression of nature?

Can wave of the ocean not be likened to the wave of electromagnetism? Can the fury of a hurricane not be likened to the fury of an angry parent? That is not to say that they are both those things, but the beauty of the human mind is the ability to make irrational associations between things.

But then again, are they really so irrational? After all, we did arrive at these conclusions by some systematic method of subconscious association... There is much reason behind our irrationality.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4637701 - 09/09/05 02:08 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

LOL You must be a neo-Freudian!

My father was absent. He drank and smoked himself to death at age 47 (I was 5) without acknowledging that I was his daughter, making any provisions for my future, or contributing anything but his sperm.

My image of God has more to due with my experiences with religious zealots than a real rejection of a higher power. It's that capital G-word that carries associations of being threatened with hellfire and damnation for being my natural self.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Veritas]
    #4637702 - 09/09/05 02:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I think I spent too many years thinking of God as Grumpy Oppressive Dominator. Whenever I read "God" in a book, post, article, I can almost hear my mind click shut. Only by an act of will can I return to my reading and take in the other points being made.




That is a very serious, and very common danger of the stigmatization of organized religion. True, organized religions may be corrupt and full of shit, but they were inspired by something beyond all of that.

Many times, if a person even mentions that they believe in jesus, everyone else will automatically assume that they are a bible humping, ignorant christian, when all they said is that they have faith in Jesus and his teachings...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: dr0mni]
    #4637718 - 09/09/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What is that quote from Gandhi: I like your Christ, but dislike your Christians? I agree with him.

I have read the Bible (New Testament) cover-to-cover, and can appreciate the wisdom expressed there. I can also see the fear and closed-mindedness of the authors. Like all human creations, it is good/bad, light/dark, positive/negative.

When someone asks me "have you been saved?" or brings up their religious beliefs out-of-context (i.e. "speaking of ham and eggs, Jesus loves me.") I am repelled.

On the other hand, I love it when I have known someone for years without hearing a single religious word from them, but admire their person very much, and hear from them (upon my request) how much their religion has meant to their life.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4637810 - 09/09/05 02:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Science is the act of creating hypotheses, testing them and, if you learn something, exploiting it.

Religion is the act of creating hypotheses and believing it without testing it.

Either way, they lack truth value. Science is useful for giving us technology, and religion for giving people meaning, but neither can be verified, nor do either of them really matter.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Offline001
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Ravus]
    #4637832 - 09/09/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

praise the lord, for he wanted pointless discussions, and it was so.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: 001]
    #4637922 - 09/09/05 03:07 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Now I'll be waiting for your purposeful topic to appear. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4638421 - 09/09/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Science is the how, religion is the why.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4639331 - 09/09/05 09:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Science is the how everything works, religion is the why people are so delusional.

Seeing as almost all religions contradict each other in at least some, if not most or all, of their teachings, religion seems to be the simple untestable explanations of hairless monkeys who never bothered to look closer at the how.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Ravus]
    #4639361 - 09/09/05 09:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Science and religion= :thumbdown:
Science and spirituality/philosophy= :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (09/09/05 09:18 PM)


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Science and Religion are intimately related. [Re: Icelander]
    #4639655 - 09/09/05 11:06 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Drop the term God and I might just agree.




Why do you tell him to drop the word ?God?? Is it not you who has to drop your concept to make room for his? Just like a glass of water has a limited volume, we limit our perception by attaching ourselves to roomy concepts. Frequencies and contaminations remind me of this. It is also the same as attuning to others by creating no extra mental flux, which if present could result in static during perception. Just like a radio. I find this to help me when trying to understand what others mean. Prejudice is just an expression of the mental flux.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


Edited by Delusion_of_Self (09/09/05 11:21 PM)


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