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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405670 -

You claim that God, if there is one, could not offer personal guidance because everyone who was sincere would recieve the same answer to a question. That is not very considerate of you.

Considerate? It is a matter of logic not sensitivity.

Is there or is there not a different set of Ten Commandments for each Jew & Christian? If there is only ONE set of Ten Commandments, then that means there are in fact UNIVERSAL, and not personal, spiritual laws and guidelines. If each of us could tap into divine guidance on moral issues then why would you believe the answer to be different?

This whole issue that you argue for is why there are thousands of Christian sects as each is "right" in their own mind. Do you believe that murder is OK for one Christian and not another?





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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405693 -

Quote:
[This whole issue that you argue for is why there are thousands of Christian sects as each is "right" in their own mind. Do you believe that murder is OK for one Christian and not another?



You do have a reading comprehension disability. Murder is not a personal choice that does not affect another person. Eating mushrooms is. It seems as though you just want to argue about this.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405711 -

I understand now. You are the luvdemshrooms of the spiritual and philosophy forum.  :smirk:

The universal laws apply to how we deal with each other. Guidance for our lives is a personal matter. And yes, To each his own. But not when it comes to murder.




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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

Edited by sirreal (03/24/03 09:26 AM)

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405720 -

You do have a reading comprehension disability.
Not at all. I have done editing, technical writing, been published, and have a minor degree in English.

Murder is not a personal choice that does not affect another person.
Agreed, never said otherwise.

Eating mushrooms is.
Agreed, never said otherwise.

It seems as though you just want to argue about this.
This IS a debating board, why would we possibly want to debate here?

Go back one more time and read what was written. Just give it a try.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405733 -

Quote:
[ If each of us could tap into divine guidance on moral issues then why would you believe the answer to be different?


Because WE are different. If you are an addictive person then it might be wrong for you to drink alcohol. But you cannot say it is wrong for all people. Can you?


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405764 -

I understand now. You are the luvdemshrooms of the spiritual and philosophy forum.
A smiley face does not make an ad hominem more acceptable. This type of statement occurs when one cannot back up their point of view.

The universal laws apply to how we deal with each other.
Agreed. Now really, really, really try to answer just THIS question (and without using the word mushroom). Don't go back to any other post or you may get confused. Now this is only the 3rd or 4th time that I have asked this same question:

If prayer begets divine guidance on an issue pertaining to how we deal with each other, then how can different Christians get different answers? (Remember that universal means ONE. )






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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405823 -

This is interesting swami, but I had the day off of work so I ate some shrooms and am tripping pretty hard. I will start a thread on the subject later and we can "argue" about it then.

I am in no shape right now. :grin:


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405860 -

Quote:
s there or is there not a different set of Ten Commandments for each Jew & Christian? If there is only ONE set of Ten Commandments, then that means there are in fact UNIVERSAL, and not personal, spiritual laws and guidelines. If each of us could tap into divine guidance on moral issues then why would you believe the answer to be different?



Every person struggles with something in their life which religious people sometimes refer to sins. I am talking about the things that rub you wrong morally. While one person can handel mushrooms and have an enlightening experience another might abuse them for their ability to make them happy. If that person who uses them only for pleasing the senses thinks they have a problem and recognizes that they are abusing them and makes a conscious effort to change their way's and sticks to it have practiced repentance and they are a stronger person for overcoming a problem. Mean while the other person continually uses them and also gains as a person because his perspective is not that of abuse but enlightenment. When you talk about the 10 commandments they are a universal set of guidelines to have a less stressful life Imo, but each person can interpret them how they wish. While one person might not have a problem with theft, they have a problem with respecting their parents or vice versa for example.

Quote:
This whole issue that you argue for is why there are thousands of Christian sects as each is "right" in their own mind. Do you believe that murder is OK for one Christian and not another?


Murder is never right, I think that may be a bad example to clarify your opinion. Each Christian sect is "right" as you put it because they have a clear understanding of what they think, just like you have a clear understanding of your opinion yet you are having a hard time getting your point across to some people.


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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: FlusH]
    #1405893 -

but each person can interpret them how they wish.
Of course they can, so how does that counter my statement about using prayer for divine guidance? People who do not pray also each have differing opinions.

Murder is never right, I think that may be a bad example to clarify your opinion.
Why is that?

Each Christian sect is "right" as you put it because they have a clear understanding of what they think,
Yes, they have a clear understanding of what they think, but not what God thinks - hence there is no divine guidance.

just like you have a clear understanding of your opinion yet you are having a hard time getting your point across to some people.
And just what is my opinion? I have asked clear, pointed questions that keep getting dodged or misread.

If you and I go to an "ultimate" sourcebook on mathematics on a specific question, we would come back with the same answer.

When we go to the ultimate sourcebook (divine guidance through prayer) on moral issues such as war; each person comes back with their own opinion, usually inline with their fellow countrymen. Now how can this be a case for the veracity of divine guidance?

(5 times now with the same question without an answer!)


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: silversoul7]
    #1405930 -

But ..didn't they have to come from some where?..i have a hard time believing that all things just appeared out of nowhere, especially mushrooms or thigns with psychadelic powers..and if we were god's..we could do much more than we do...
No matter what religion i think we all know there is a greater force behind the shroom...agree??


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Perspective on life always changes

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405972 -

Quote:
but each person can interpret them how they wish.
Of course they can, so how does that counter my statement about using prayer for divine guidance? People who do not pray also each have differing opinions.



This is what I was responding to:
"Is there or is there not a different set of Ten Commandments for each Jew & Christian? If there is only ONE set of Ten Commandments, then that means there are in fact UNIVERSAL, and not personal, spiritual laws and guidelines. If each of us could tap into divine guidance on moral issues then why would you believe the answer to be different?" 


Each "rule" can be interpreted for each individuals situation.  Simple as that, believe it or not.

Quote:
Murder is never right, I think that may be a bad example to clarify your opinion.
Why is that? 


I am not trying to dispute if murder is right or wrong, I am saying that it is a bad example to clarify your point.  If you agree with murder, good for you.

Quote:
Each Christian sect is "right" as you put it because they have a clear understanding of what they think,
Yes, they have a clear understanding of what they think, but not what God thinks - hence there is no divine guidance.


They feel they are recieving divine guidance.  Just because you cannot understand another perspective means they are wrong, nor you right.  Because when you read the bible you might not feel enlightened does not mean someone else does.

Quote:
just like you have a clear understanding of your opinion yet you are having a hard time getting your point across to some people.
And just what is my opinion? I have asked clear, pointed questions that keep getting dodged or misread.

If you and I go to an "ultimate" sourcebook on mathematics on a specific question, we would come back with the same answer.


I think what you want to hear is someone to agree with you that logically there is no god.  Every person on this earth has the same level of knowledge of religion no matter how educated or what religion in specific they choose to follow.  Some people have divine moments, or enlightening moments because of how they have studied their beliefs.  But ultimatly nobody know's what god is thinking, doing, or if he even exsists.  I think your point is that scientificly there is no evidence for a higher being and you are trying to put that point across by asking questions.  Being aloof.  It is your personal drama that is getting in the way of you understanding everybody else's perspective here on this thread.   

PS.  I think it would be a good idea to re-read all post's before responding.  You seem to have a bad habit of selectivly choosing your arguments and twisting the point other peoples posts.  You would be a fine employee on Bush's administration  :wink:

edit: sientificly to scientificly


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Edited by FlusH (03/24/03 11:12 AM)

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: tastyshroom]
    #1405994 -

~Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."~ -Bill Hicks


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-BlueLemming

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: BlueLemming]
    #1406027 -

" ~Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."~ -Bill Hicks "

This is incredibly true! I have been born and raised Mennonite, and I could tell countless stories about how I am going to hell just because I voice my opinion. While making the last reply to Swami I was also talking to my mother, she thinks I am to overbearing as a person because I talk too fast and tell people what I think if I am questioned. I asked her if she feels insulted by my actions and all I got was a quiet "yes, I think satan is using you, god is not with you.". I love my mother but it is hard to view christianity in a positive light when you gotta put up with shit like this( I don't mean my mother is shitty, just that christianity can be used as a mean's to controll mass population using the ole Satan scare techniqe)


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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1406071 -

haha im gald i set up this post...obviously there is alot of cronteversy on this issue...i believe exactly what ledzpln is trying to say..different answers go to different opinions..and also when some one is praying about an issue such as war..often when the answer comes it is because of their own opinions and usually mistake god's voice as theirs..i think


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Perspective on life always changes

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Phluck]
    #1406093 -

Just because you have faith in something does not make it so. There will always be someone who has faith in the exact opposite. Some have faith in the existance of god, and some have faith that god does not exist.

Why do you feel this assertion is correct? For those who have faith God exists, there is inward, unmanifested, unseen world that certain individuals can awaken to because God is a reality. It seems psychedelics can easily reveal this nature of knowing to the person of faith.

"But I know for sure because I can FEEL it, this information has been given to me by God himself."

Feeling God is dhikr, the remembrance of God, something very different than al-Ghayb (awareness of unseen).

Mushrooms do not make people believe one certain thing.

I thought this was common knowledge.




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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: tastyshroom]
    #1406101 -

If you "hear voices" Dr.'s reccomend medication, and not the psychedelic type. But if you "hear God's voice" then you are just a part of the church. I don't get it.  :confused:


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1406156 -

Swami -- since no one else will answer your question, I will give you my opinion on it.

"If prayer begets divine guidance on an issue pertaining to how we deal with each other, then how can different Christians get different answers?"

I think that the response that each person gets from 'God' in their prayers is formulated in their own mind. By praying and asking for guidance from their God, who may or may not exist, they are simply going as deeply into their mind as possible and fetching out the answer that they believe to be as pure and uncorrupted as possible, or in other words, what they personally believe to be the truth, with as little sway as possible from whatever distractions they may have influencing this decision. Some are probably better than others at blocking out these things, and I find it hard to believe that anyone could make their mind absolutely free of prejudice.
Now this is just a theory, so please feel free to pick it apart as you like.


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"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1406445 -

I was wrong. Oops.


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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: FlusH]
    #1406446 -

Round and round the mulberry bush we go with nary an answer...

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but each person can interpret them how they wish.

Of course they can, so how does that counter my statement about using prayer for divine guidance? People who do not pray also each have differing opinions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each "rule" can be interpreted for each individuals situation. Simple as that, believe it or not.

We just said this as above. Repitition does not equal clarity. How do different interpretations point to divine guidance?

Quote:
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Murder is never right, I think that may be a bad example to clarify your opinion.

Why is that?

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I am not trying to dispute if murder is right or wrong, I am saying that it is a bad example to clarify your point.
*Sigh* Is this an echo chamber? I will go s-l-o-w-y here: WHY IS IT A BAD EXAMPLE?

If you agree with murder, good for you.
Huh? Where do you get this?

They feel they are recieving divine guidance.
Of course they do, so what?

Just because you cannot understand another perspective means they are wrong, nor you right.
Wow! Are you reading someone else's posts? I made NO judgement on any stance.

Because when you read the bible you might not feel enlightened does not mean someone else does.
Another great non-sequitar.

I think what you want to hear is ...
*Double-sigh* Please stick to your opinion instead of playing junior psychoanalyst. This is another atrocious form of debate.

It is your personal drama ...
More of the same.

You would be a fine employee on Bush's administration
And capped off by the ill-fitting ad hominem (and a smiley - how cute!) but still with no answer in sight.






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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (03/24/03 04:56 PM)

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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1406460 -

"I think what you want to hear is ...
*Double-sigh* Please stick to your opinion instead of playing junior psychoanalyst. This is another atrocious form of debate.

It is your personal drama ...
More of the same.

You would be a fine employee on Bush's administration
And capped off by the ill-fitting ad hominem (and a smiley - how cute!) but still with no answer in sight."

And yes, I still moderate this forum. :smile:

Both of you need to be a little less personal in your responses.  I am not singling you or him out.  This was just the first response I read.

Stay on topic and let the personal barbs go.

Thanks. :smile:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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