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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: silversoul7]
    #1403768 - 03/23/03 04:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Doesn't the Koran explicitly forbid the use of mind-altering substances? Or is it just alcohol I'm thinking of?

The Noble Qur'aan forbids wine. Most Muslim scholars will make the fatwa (legal verdict, opinion) that all mind altering substances are forbidden.


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: tastyshroom]
    #1404796 - 03/24/03 04:57 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i am a christian and have a personal relationship w/ jesus.. i have prayed and asked for conviction if my use of his gifts to mankind are a sin.. i haven't had that conviction...

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall ? speak lies in hypocrisy ? commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

i believe in the truth and will ignore people who speak lies in hypocrisy against what god created to be recieved with thanksgiving of them which believe.

a "mind-altering" substance is something that makes you think differently ..
T.V. is a "mind-altering" susbstance and so is music because it can change the way you think..

food is also a gift to mankind.. gluttony is a sin.. gluttony is excessive indulgence in food... too much of anything whether it is good or bad is a sin.

too much use of mushrooms or cannabis would be a sin.. so keep it in moderation


Edited by HidingInPlainSight (03/24/03 05:09 AM)


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Registered: 05/10/01
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Vulture]
    #1404821 - 03/24/03 05:08 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tru...i dont consider Marijuana or Shrooms drugs.....they are the only kind of "drug" i can take knowing that im not damaging my body. They are natural...unprosessed.




but then again....there are lots of shrooms that are natural that will kill your...and datura...whoa...my curiosity may get the best of me with datura one day :/




Actually mushrooms are very hard on the liver.
(Psychedelic Mushrooms that is)


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Edited by rommstein2001 (03/24/03 05:12 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #1405034 - 03/24/03 07:15 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i have prayed and asked for conviction if my use of his gifts to mankind are a sin.. i haven't had that conviction...

And others have prayed and received the opposite message. So much for the validity of using prayer as guidance or finding the truth.



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Offlinesirreal
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Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405049 - 03/24/03 07:23 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

[And others have prayed and received the opposite message. So much for the validity of using prayer as guidance or finding the truth.




Maybe God gives people different answers. Maybe God says no to those people who cannot handle the mushroom.

I believe in following your own conscience in these matters. I don't pray, I listen.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405072 - 03/24/03 07:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Swami what you said brings up an intersting point..

if god convicts you of something but not someone else.. you can't tell that other person that they are wrong because God convicts some people about different things for different reasons..

maybe those people that got convicted about using mushrooms because they had bad intentions for the drugs.. like getting "messed up" instead of using them for their true purposes.  :laugh: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405155 - 03/24/03 08:03 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe God gives people different answers.

Maybe, but most likely not. Why would God tell some Christians it is OK to support prohibition and to disrupt a family and put a parent in jail for using an herb?


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405175 - 03/24/03 08:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

God would never tell someone what is right for someone else. Not regarding personal experience anyway.

Prohibition takes away personal choice. I am not talking about that.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1405218 - 03/24/03 08:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Actually mushrooms are very hard on the liver.
(Psychedelic Mushrooms that is) "

Provide sources please.
I believe that you may be spreading misinformation.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Zahid]
    #1405244 - 03/24/03 08:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Just because you have faith in something does not make it so. There will always be someone who has faith in the exact opposite. Some have faith in the existance of god, and some have faith that god does not exist.

"But I know for sure because I can FEEL it, this information has been given to me by God himself."

There is someone who "feels" conflicting information. Just because your brain is telling you something, does not make it so.

Mushrooms do not make people believe one certain thing. They do not make people more open minded, or more peaceful. They do seem to reinforce beliefs that people already have. If a pacifist takes mushrooms, he might emerge believing that god himself has told him that pacifism is the way to go. Charles Manson ingested various psychedelic drugs and came to the conclusion that he needed to incite a race war.

Natural drugs are still drugs. Mushrooms, marijuana, datura, and dozens of other plants out there contain chemicals that ARE DRUGS. If you claim that they aren't, fine, but you cannot claim that you are using the english language.

Also, natural drugs are no less dangerous than those that are produced in a laboratory. Datura, morphine, cocaine, and dozens of other dangerous and lethal chemicals are naturally occuring. There are many very safe and non toxic drugs produced in labs.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405250 - 03/24/03 08:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Apparently no one is "hearing" my point.

Person A: prays to God about an issue that will affect many people such as war and "gets the message" that the US war against Iraq is just.

Person B: prays to God about an issue that will affect many people such as war and "gets the message" that the US war against Iraq is not just.

Obviously then, prayer is ineffectual as a guidance tool. The answer that comes back seems to be the culturally predisposed one and NOT the divine one.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405356 - 03/24/03 09:23 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Apparently you are not getting the point!
We are talking about a personal decision to do mushrooms. That is what was prayed for. No one is talking about war.

If we were talking about something other than "personal decision" I would agree with you.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (03/24/03 09:25 AM)


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405381 - 03/24/03 09:29 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ok .. say somebody is fat and god convicts them to lose weight..
someone who is skinny would not be convicted to lose weight...

if a recovering child molestor gets convicted to stay away from children..

some guy talks to the child molestor and the child molestor says .. you should stay away from children because god told me.

god makes convictions based on the persons actions.




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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405511 - 03/24/03 10:19 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Apparently you are not getting the point! We are talking about a personal decision to do mushrooms.
WARNING! READING COMPREHENSION ERROR IN PROGRESS!

I never mentioned mushroom usage, only the efficacy of using prayer as a tool to decide the "correctness" of ANY action.

If we were talking about something other than "personal decision" I would agree with you.
It is NOT a personal decision whether to support the war or not? I don't follow you here, bro. ALL decisions are personal.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #1405519 - 03/24/03 10:22 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i believe in the truth and will ignore people who speak lies

This quote can be used from either side of the fence and says absolutely nothing at all. Do you REALLY believe that prohibitionists (in general) see themselves as liars?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
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Registered: 01/11/03
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405535 - 03/24/03 10:28 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wow!!! You are really trying to confuse the hell out of this issue.Aren't you?

Led said that he prayed about using "gods gifts" and god said it was allright.
You said that someone else might get a different answer so there is no guidance in prayer. I was suggesting that God gives people different answers on personal issues like these. You brought the war up in the middle of it.

When it comes to going to war, It should not be one man's personal decision. You can believe whatever you want to though.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405547 - 03/24/03 10:31 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I was suggesting that God gives people different answers on personal issues like these.




i agree 100%  :cool: 


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405591 - 03/24/03 10:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Apparently you are not getting the point! We are talking about a personal decision to do mushrooms.
WARNING! READING COMPREHENSION ERROR IN PROGRESS!

I never mentioned mushroom usage, only the efficacy of using prayer as a tool to decide the "correctness" of ANY action.




The post you responded to was talking about an action, consuming mushrooms, that has nothing to do with anyone else. You showed incomprehension when you brought war into it! Mushrooms are the issue . not war.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: sirreal]
    #1405602 - 03/24/03 10:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wow!!! You are really trying to confuse the hell out of this issue.Aren't you?
Your mind-reading ability is lacking when it comes to my motivation. I stated my aim v-e-r-y clearly: to demonstrate that prayer does not beget divine guidance. I deliberately shifted from mushroom ingestion to a less ambiguous topic, not to muddy the water, but to show that divine guidance does not exist otherwise sincere people would get the same answer.


When it comes to going to war, It should not be one man's personal decision.
It is each man's personal decision to support or not support the war.

If the war is inherently just and a group of sincere Christians pray for DIRECT guidance from God and are given different answers, then the answers MUST be from the self and not from a divine source.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Being christian and doing shrooms [Re: Swami]
    #1405643 - 03/24/03 11:01 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Your mind-reading ability is lacking when it comes to my motivation.
Quote:



I was not trying to read your mind.changing the subject from a personal decision to do mushrooms to a collective event like war , atleast to me, seems a little confusing.


Quote:

I stated my aim v-e-r-y clearly: to demonstrate that prayer does not beget divine guidance. I deliberately shifted from mushroom ingestion to a less ambiguous topic, not to muddy the water, but to show that divine guidance does not exist otherwise sincere people would get the same answer.




You have not really made a point. You claim that God, if there is one, does not offer personal guidance because everyone who was sincere would recieve the same answer to a question. That is not very considerate of you. There are alot of variables to consider. What is right for me may not be right for you. You can call it God or you can call it conscience, But whatever it is it gives different answers to different people.




--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (03/24/03 11:03 AM)


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