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 dpc2424
headfull
Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 126
Loc: inching towards the light
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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 Re: To the Christians; From Enter  [Re: World Spirit]
#1719588 - 07/15/03 10:16 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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i used to be a follower of the christian faith, but after coming to some realizations about life/spirituality and i have changed my views. there are far too many flaws in the bible...check out this site and look at the quetions
http://members.aol.com/bbu84/biblicalstupidity/tough.htm
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"What is needed today is a fundamental reexperience of the oneness of all living things, a comprehensive reality consciousness that ever more infrequently develops spontaneously, the more the primordial flora and fauna of our mother earth must yield to a dead technological environment."
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curenado
73rd Man
 
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
#1719829 - 07/15/03 11:20 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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<<Just enjoy what you got while you got it because it won't be here forever and neither will you or your tainted ego. Deal with it. >>
That seems to be a really painful religion......you have more proof of this that you know than Jesus? (I'm just funning you man - but you do sound a bit too torn....) 
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
Edited by curenado (07/15/03 11:21 PM)
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DrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi
Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Right where I need to be
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: chunder]
#1719935 - 07/15/03 11:55 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Isn't there a book dedicated to the teachings of Christ, rather than the bible which is a 2-part religious text?
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AH HA....
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 World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: DrubuShrume]
#1720338 - 07/16/03 02:10 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
#1720963 - 07/16/03 08:43 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are works that are scriptural and derivative.
The reason we have the four gospels is because when it was decided to assemble a bible decades after Jesus and John had both gone, a roman catholic bishop reported that there "must be upwards of 200 gospels" in his district and hence, this guy got the job of picking which could be added to a make reasonably sized canon. (The volume of "bible qualified" writngs is huge and a large part of what you thoink of as the "Old Testament" comes from the "Masoretic Text")
This area of history and revelation is both hopeful and frustrating for christians and non christians because it usually offers both sides something to be glad for and something to think about (you know....)
But as regards Rabbi Y'shua ben Yoseph (Jesus the son of Joseph) one of the few surving historical accounts by a guy who couldn't seem to decide if he was a Jew or a Roman (you know those guys...)
gives passing reference to a district of the region "recently in much tumult because of one Jesus" (as in a person named Jesus making or being the cause of a ruckus...)
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
Edited by curenado (07/16/03 08:52 AM)
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: curenado]
#1720996 - 07/16/03 08:58 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another modern weakness is more people want to preach the bible than they do study it, and there actually are traditional methods of study and interpretation that make it a completely different book than people who can't really read it clearly or understand it know - but keep faith in. That is part of the gentile (and modern white christian) blessing - Jesus told people in these times to love each other, not be Torah experts or try to "inflict" the Word on each other.
as it is written "Blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the coming in of the Gentiles."
"Jesus won't begrudge it and the Chaplain works for me." - The Lion in Winter
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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 Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: curenado]
#1721147 - 07/16/03 09:56 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
#1721346 - 07/16/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, you are very correct - remember this passage "if the things Jesus said and did were to be written down the world would not be large enough to contain the books" ?
That's what the gospels were - accounts of the living Jesus by those who had been near him passed on through the oral tradition until they began to be written down and you have to figure a guy who spent three years walking and talking to people - what it would be like if everyone who met Mother Theresa wrote an account of it.......
Masoretic text
Here is one link http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/ipb-e/tanach/ipbe-tn.html
and here is one that just offers info about it
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text
Traditional Hermeneutics (interpretation as Jesus learned it)
http://www.wildernessnazarene.com/pardes.html
He most likely would have known the "rules" of Hillel also, and you can find them at www.nazarene.net under hermeneutics
(Hilell was a beloved Jewish teacher and saintly type person who said "What thou hate, do it not unto thy neighbor; that is the whole of the Torah." about 200 BC)
We compare this to Jesus "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and we see a continuation of the whole thing from beginning to end rather than a chopped up meshuga
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Amen.
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: Anno]
#1721388 - 07/16/03 11:46 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Josephus Flavius was also the one who tipped the bag about the ancient Essene brothers:
"Some of them undertake to predict the future through various purifications, the purusal of sacred texts (brontology) and the use of a "digested oracle" -
Add that to Benny Shannon (Hebrew University Jerusalem) who went out to see that gigantic field of syrian rue right next to the Qumran ruins and the presence of mimosa and 9(+?) species of neurotropic fungi in the region - and one begins to wonder "hmmm.....IS that where Qabbalah came from?"
(historians now think qabbalah as well as the "updating" or even writing of Genesis may have taken place at Qumran or among the Jewish Essenes)
OK - I talk about a lot of this stuff lightly but it's volatile so take care.....
we ourselves teach it as physical medicine and leave the rest to each own soul in faith.....
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
Edited by curenado (07/16/03 11:48 AM)
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Funguy
Homo SapiensEntheogenous
Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Muffy
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: curenado]
#1721687 - 07/16/03 01:30 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jesus has to be more than "a good man." He is the Son of God. He fulfilled all of the prophecies of the Old Testament. Jesus was more than a spiritual leader. He himself said, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." John 3:14-15
How could Jesus be "enlightened," if what he said about himself is false? Jesus said he was the Son of God, if he lied about that, then his other sayings must be false as well. So if he lied about everything, then he died for a cause he knew was false.
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OTD UNDERDOGS
Is attention your retarded heroin?
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: Funguy]
#1721721 - 07/16/03 01:44 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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<<Jesus has to be more than "a good man." He is the Son of God. He fulfilled all of the prophecies of the Old Testament. Jesus was more than a spiritual leader. He himself said, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." John 3:14-15>>
If somebody said different it wasn't me  
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: curenado]
#1721725 - 07/16/03 01:45 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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This hasn't been such a bad thread huh?
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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Funguy
Homo SapiensEntheogenous
Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Muffy
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: curenado]
#1723052 - 07/16/03 09:02 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nope, not bad at all. Those who have eyes to read, let them read... I hope all of you will eventually come to know Christ as your true personal savior. I know most of you don't agree with me, but I will continue to show love and patience to you. Even if you don't believe in him, God still loves you and wants to be with you...
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OTD UNDERDOGS
Is attention your retarded heroin?
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Anonymous
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: Funguy]
#1723187 - 07/16/03 09:52 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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so the only pre-requisite for getting into heaven is believing?
what if a child is raised as a athiest from athiest parents, and was subject to the same indoctrination as you have (according to your stories about jesus from your mother), would this person burn in the hell for eternity?
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: ]
#1723465 - 07/16/03 11:04 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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He doesn't get to pick that dude, God does.  I think those bases are covered if you check the book - but to be christian is not to have a monopoly on what it is to be "kalos" (a fine and handsome son - something fine in it's very nature) or "kalokagatia" (high moral excellence - a logic of beauty and good will)
....if one has a monopoly on the above things then one is of ideal christian values - but the doctrine itself can't put that in a person any more than any doctrine can, and "God knows his own" worldwide......
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 11 days
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Re: Praise the Lord [Re: Funguy]
#1723549 - 07/16/03 11:33 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jesus said he was the Son of God, if he lied about that, then his other sayings must be false as well. So if he lied about everything, then he died for a cause he knew was false.
Why do you draw that conclusion? If I say 2+2=5 and 1+1=2, does the falsity of the first statement make the second statement false also? Does the truth value of any of the statements change if I also add the statement "I am the Son of God"?
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: trendal]
#1723815 - 07/17/03 01:19 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Trendal.. damn the catholics.. that is what I have to say
I was raised catholic as well, catholic school, fat nun... the whole shebang. Then my mom go divorced and remarried and presto wammo.. we were no longer welcome to recieve the body of Christ.
I tried baptist, methodist, nondenominational, wicca, church of the nazarene... I could go on and on. But none of them were right. None of them reconciled with my perception of God. They all preached of this angry wrathful God.. not the loving presence I had felt.
I know a man who speaks with God.. not just to him. Im extraordinarily jealous and amazed that he has never tried to convert me However, his wife did give me a tip and it has done more for me then I thought possible. Write down your prayers, God knows our hearts.. and also write down the date that you begin your conversation with God on the subject. You should see some results rather quickly.
I think that most of the time God answers us in ways that we dont understand or cant understand, but to see a book with a date that you began praying on a topic and actual resolutions.. I mean, and you would be amazed at the percentage of resolution you actually get.. I think it's pretty powerful and shows us that God is definately listening.
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: ]
#1723830 - 07/17/03 01:28 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Morrowind, actually.. Jesus said, "Go ye unto all nations and preach the Gospel"
What you quoted may be in the bible, but Id love to see the related scripture where it says not to let your voices testify.
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: LOBO]
#1723843 - 07/17/03 01:38 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Enter started this topic stating that the only one that saves is Jesus bla bla bla."
blah blah blah? I mean, you dont seem to have that great of an attitude towards his beliefs either.
"Basically he said to all of us that we are all wrong and that all our beliefs are incorrect."
Actually, that is how you percieved what he said. He never said that you were wrong and actually says to let mankind reap what it sows.
"Is the arrogance that most Christians express in their blind fanaticism that shows their lack of understanding and spirituality"
I dont know what kind of Christians you are speaking of because just beacuse you go to church doesnt make you a christian..
"You don?t see Jew?s trying to convince you, or Hindus, Buddhists not even Muslims."
Whoa there. You must not get out a heck of alot. Although I havent had any Hindus try to convince me.. I have had Buddhists and Muslims preach their beliefs. Check the speaking tour at your local college and see if you can find any Buddist transcendental meditations or discussions on spirituality. Given, Im in Cali.. but my local college has 2 next month. Then, step on a plane over to the middle east.. try bahrain, its the only one I can speak directly on.. see if anyone speaks to you about their faith.
"But you will always find a Christian trying to force the ?Truth? into you
It will be very different if they will say "In my opinion" or "the one that saved me" was Jesus."
But see, to a Christian, these things are not opinion, they arent even truth as much as fact.
"If you want to see a true Christian look at the life Madre Theresa, she did not have to preach or convince you she lived that path of a Christian."
There are many people who are good christians walking in your community.
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