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 SHiZNO
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Registered: 03/14/03
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 Christians? 
#1415982 - 03/28/03 02:42 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am not Christian, but was wondering, if getting high/tripping goes against that religion, i know alot of people argue Marijuana is gods herb and support it with the bible, but i am also sure it says something about not doing anything to your body like that...someone enlighten me!
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SHiZNO
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1415984 - 03/28/03 02:42 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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so basically im asking: is it a sin to eat shrooms/smoke weed?
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 AbFab
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1416256 - 03/28/03 09:33 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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there is a thread in S+P called "being christian and doing shrooms" that i think sums it up pretty well.
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The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when your uncool.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1416932 - 03/29/03 02:17 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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I 'came to Christ' throught insights gleaned through the psychedelic experience - not necessarily mushrooms, but mushrooms are purely natural psychedelics (whereas the LSD I used is semi-natural). That radical change from ego to Christ as the recognized Center and 'Lord' or 'Master' of my life became manifested through the ritual of Baptism and through a change of direction in my life from pre-med to receiving academic degrees in philosophy, theology and psychology. I have been a licensed mental health professional since 1985 as a means of employment as well as the opportunity to practice Compassion.
Cannabis Sativa/Indica did nothing to enhance my life AFTER the first 3 times I got stoned. Much lifetime was wasted - a whole new meaning for the expression 'wasted' - between 1969 and about 1979. It was behind the drop in grades in college, retarded emotional and social development, and a major obstacle for finding the true Source of lasting peace, calmness and fearlessness. It was a drug addiction. It made me slow in reflex, damaged memory and the ability to learn new material, and created apathy, which translates non-clinically into 'lazy bum.' It represents an infantile regressive state, which can account for its only positive quality of enhancing the senses, at the expense of physical powers (reflexes, breathing), intellectual functioning, and spiritual growth.
There is nothing in the Bible to support the use of cannabis or mushrooms. Attempts have been made to translate 'manna' and 'shewbread' into shrooms; and calamus, found in the Holy Annointing oil in Exodus (Acorus Calamus IS psychedelic - TMA, a precursor to mescaline) has been reinterpreted as 'cannabis,' but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek. Neither is the ridiculous Rasta claims for the word 'grass,' to mean cannabis because thousands of years later people called cannabis, grass.
Mushrooms could loosely be considered to constitute 'pharmakeia' in Greek which means both sorcery and drugs (sorcery has always employed drugs), in which case shrooms would be condemned. On the other hand, if, like the Holy Annointing oil which would've been highly psychedelic, shrooms open one's spiritual eye to the Reality of God, then the magic has been appropriated by God Himself. The magic of Moses was of God, and overcame the magic of Pharaoh's sorcerers (Moses' staff-turned-snake ate the Pharoah's sorcerers' staffs-turned-snakes if you'll recall). So bottom line is whether these things actually makes one a better servant of the Almighty, be it Jew, Christian, Muslim or whatever, or does not. Since I am a Jewish Christian, and God is a central focus in my lfe, my trips are the trips of a Jewish Christian. For me, psychedelics have long been what Huxley called "Moksha Medicine," medicine of liberation. The liberation means freedom from worldliness, inordinate attachment (vices), and 'sin,' be it lying or anything that isn't about Truth. This is my witness. Peace.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Scvotto_Turellskey
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Hmmmmm, interesting.
The ten commandments as set down in the old testamnet don't really say anything about it.
((go here to brush up : http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/10commandments.html ))
Jesus whole view of the way people should live is generally taken from his "sermon on the mount", and well, he just expands on the commandments, giving a fuller meaning to each one.
(( try here: http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sermon/sermon.htm ))
Well he doesn't really say anything about it.
If you followed Jesus teachings you could say, as long as you don't hurt anyone, then there is not a problem (probably not what your local vicar/priest/cleric will tell you).
However if you were adicted "blah blah" you could hurt people, so that would be different.
Also since you're "made in the image of God" it would be a sin to damage yourself knowingly. Again you could argue you're not damaging yourself, so, that could be ok too.
So. You could argue all day about it.
It's probably ok if you're a good bloke/dame.
I'm sure JC and the guys up in heaven have bigger fish to fry (at least I hope so).
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"They think we are retarded - they are retarded." - The Sultan of Spin.
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curenado
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<<There is nothing in the Bible to support the use of cannabis or mushrooms. Attempts have been made to translate 'manna' and 'shewbread' into shrooms; and calamus, found in the Holy Annointing oil in Exodus (Acorus Calamus IS psychedelic - TMA, a precursor to mescaline) has been reinterpreted as 'cannabis,' but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek. Neither is the ridiculous Rasta claims for the word 'grass,' to mean cannabis because thousands of years later people called cannabis, grass.>>
That is absolute and total misinformation - I can see how ignorance upon error has led to all the half truths and pseudo science about this, but marijuana is straight up and undeniably there in multiple places and you are not by any means a theology expert or you would know that. I have a PhD too - so you can't pass that silly hocky by me as easy....your knowledge of languages is p-poor and the etymology of the whole thing has completely escaped you - for being a jewish christian. You should not mislead people about the Word and profess love of God and nieghbor.
<<but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek.>>
It wasn't latin at all - it was in fact hebrew and greek. I don't want to rag you a bunch, but I would be remiss not to point out one of the poorest understandings I have ever seen of that whole matter and at least try to control damage. Bad doctor!
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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infidelGOD
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1445701 - 04/10/03 03:48 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not Christian, but was wondering, if getting high/tripping goes against that religion, i know alot of people argue Marijuana is gods herb and support it with the bible, but i am also sure it says something about not doing anything to your body like that...someone enlighten me!
Genesis 1:29,
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
it's OK folks, the Bible says so!
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curenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445706 - 04/10/03 03:55 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<So. You could argue all day about it.>>
You don't have to - the word is clear and good.
<<It's probably ok if you're a good bloke/dame.>>
A real step in the right direction
<<I'm sure JC and the guys up in heaven have bigger fish to fry (at least I hope so).>>
Or bigger blunts? Only in our time and culture is the matter so much. If you had all this hulla baloo (zooris in hebrew..) over kaneh in the old days, they would have thought you were a little meshugah
"Drink your gin and tonika and smoke your marijuanica...."
Shalom~shalom
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445711 - 04/10/03 03:59 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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First rule of true scriptural interpretation: No passage loses it's pashat (simple meaning)
<<<Genesis 1:29,
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
it's OK folks, the Bible says so!>>
Torah Torah Torah
...and Jesus too so don't even go there....you don't got the steam!
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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infidelGOD
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445721 - 04/10/03 04:10 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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here's the more accurate King James version:
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
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cleaner
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1445738 - 04/10/03 04:36 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
so basically im asking: is it a sin to eat shrooms/smoke weed?
SUPPOSEDLY, Jesus was a cannabis healer and a jewish shaman, so let me reasure you he ate more shrooms every full moon than the whole lot of us in a year.
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Earth_Droid
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1445740 - 04/10/03 04:38 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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It depends on what type of Christian you are talking about. Obviously there are some christian mystics who trip, but I have yet to see a catholic christian doing drugs.
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Earth_Droid
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In other words, you will find christians from both stand points. This goes the same way with other religious, such as buddhism and hinduism. I have heard a lot of buddhist monks say that all drugs are bad because the first thing they make you do is loose control, which you need to meditate. Personally, I think those monks don't know shit about the drugs, and obviously havn't tried any. There are a lot of buddhist groups that do use psychedelics though.
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curenado
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<<but I have yet to see a catholic christian doing drugs>>
? ?
I'm just having fun - I think you covered this very well in your previous post. It was just funny dude... 
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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MarkostheGnostic
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 Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445802 - 04/10/03 05:43 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bite me.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445804 - 04/10/03 05:46 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Benny Shanon during his study noted that the Qumran site (Dead Sea Scrolls place...) had a huge field of harmaline producing plant right there. We know that harmaline really weirds out and intensifies mushroom tripping. We know that the Essenes were experts in Rapha (Rapha-el = Healing). We wonder things like if the harmalines were used alone or in conjunction (and most likely with what) or both.
"...some of them undertake to predict the future through various purifications, perusal of sacred texts and the use of a digested oracle." - Josephus Flavius on the Essenes
(Essenes were a jewish monastic order for those who did not know that already. They were hallmarked by a number of things, mysticism being one of them. John the Baptist is thought by most now to have been raised at Qumran or nearby, and to have been raised as an Essene.) "...and the Word of God came to Yochanan (John) in the wilderness..."
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: cleaner]
#1445805 - 04/10/03 05:49 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present. Jesus was bound by Jewish dietary laws, and a dung-loving mushroom, for example, would have been out of the question. I'm not a mycologist, but the desert dominated geography of Judea and vicinity is not exactly the moist place that suppports much mushroom life. Try not to impose your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality upon Biblical mythos - you only miss the point.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445808 - 04/10/03 05:53 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<Bite me.>>
Well the Jesus falls outta you fast little brother! 
<<For me, psychedelics have long been what Huxley called "Moksha Medicine," medicine of liberation. The liberation means freedom from worldliness, inordinate attachment (vices), and 'sin,' be it lying or
<<<anything that isn't about Truth.>>>
You have to keep faith that the truth will make you free...that is what the word says.
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445812 - 04/10/03 05:58 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Right...so, because (what harmaline-containing plant???) someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445813 - 04/10/03 05:59 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present. >>
Again - you prove your p-poor knowledge of jewish history and faith
<y not to impose your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality upon Biblical mythos - you only miss the point>>
Try not to cleverly make a mythos out of truth - no one ever claimed the Bible was a myth. You missed the point a long time ago.....
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445814 - 04/10/03 06:00 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality>>
That seems to be what, in fact, you are trying to impose -
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445816 - 04/10/03 06:03 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today? >>
No, rash one, the thought is that over time the original garden spread out and took over the spot like plants so often naturally do - and I am not making suppositions I am following schoalship in and outside of the Church
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445821 - 04/10/03 06:08 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<Right...so, because (what harmaline-containing plant???) someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today?>>
The thought is that the original garden over the years spread out untended and took over. I am not making suppositions - you do that - I study current scholarly resources in and outside of the Church like grownups do...
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445823 - 04/10/03 06:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sorry about the duplication folks....my fault
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445831 - 04/10/03 06:18 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known>>
Well, if you ever did any real scholarship or had any real basis in the faith and history you would know that much more is known than was....but hey - I'm really just saying talk about something you know or spare people - that was an Essene ethic - we know!
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445847 - 04/10/03 06:45 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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"....The first case I shall note is one in which an explicit mention
of a psychoactive plant is actually made ? it involves Rachel, Jacob's beloved wife. Initially, Jacob loved Rachel much more than he did Leah, her sister whom his father in-law obliged him to marry as well. However, because Rachel was barren,
Jacob stayed with Leah, a state of affairs which upset Rachel to the point
of wishing to die. Given this background, the scriptures recount:
And Reuben [Jacob's first son, whose mother is Leah] went in the days
of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah.
Then Rachel said to Leah: Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes. And she
said unto her: Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest
thou take away my son's mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie
with thee tonight for thy son's mandrakes (Genesis, 30.14?15).
This story is, I find, truly amazing. After the biblical text makes it very clear that
the most important thing in Rachel's life was the love of her husband whom she
was forced to share with her hated sister, we are told that this very Rachel is willing to sacrifice her relationship with her husband in order to obtain
some mandrakes. Furthermore, it is noted that Leah, too, highly valued the mandrakes, for she compares the taking away of these to the taking away of Jacob, the target of rivalry and animosity between the two sisters. Apparently, the reason the narrator inserts this episode within the main story, whose subject matter is Jacob's relationship with his wives and the manner in which his sons (the founders to the twelve tribes of Israel) were begotten, is to indicate how valuable mandrakes were in early Israelite society. Mandrakes are, of course, highly psychoactive
(see, for instance, Schultes and Hofmann, 1979)."
**Apparently, the reason the narrator inserts this episode within the main story** as a scholar I'm not sure I completely agree with Shanon's theory on why the story was there.....that's all
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
Edited by curenado (04/10/03 06:48 AM)
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445858 - 04/10/03 06:55 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<(what harmaline-containing plant???)>>
<<There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present>>
"it is interesting to note that in the Southern region of Israel and in the Sinai
peninsula there grow two plants that can induce psychoactive effects. One is Peganum Harmala, and the other Mimosa hostilis. Significantly, these two plants
respectively contain the molecules contained in Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis, the two plants which are the constituents of the powerful Amazonian brew ayahuasca. ...........A further examination of the Scriptures reveals that Mimosa (shita, in Hebrew)wood had a very special status: It is
from it that the ancient Israelites constructed the tabernacle and built the ark in which the Tables of the Covenant were guarded. (Curiously, the coffins of the pharaohs too were made out of this wood.) Apparently, this is not because the wood was especially valuable ? rabbinical commentaries on the Bible explicitly note that is was not.....(to the point man!)....... led me to look for Peganum in the Judean desert. An especially large wild field of the plant is found just next door to the Qumran caves, the home of the Essenes, the ancient Judaic (and perhaps proto-Christian) mystic group who lived in that area from the second century BC to the second century AD. Qumran is also the place where the oldest biblical
manuscripts (along with other religious texts), the so-called Dead Sea
scrolls, have been found. I was startled..."
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1445888 - 04/10/03 07:25 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<Jesus was bound by Jewish dietary laws, and a dung-loving mushroom, for example, would have been out of the question.>>
OK - do you mean kosherut law, or some other dietary law Jesus would have been bound by that you know of from a paperback book? I'm not arguing that point here - though we have kosher mushrooms now I guess they were probably too dumb back then..... (?)....
However - psilocybe mushrooms are not the only psychoactive fungi and more than one culprit is suspected as a possibility.....also, I personally can't remember PTRYH (fungi/mushrooms) being mentioned in the Torah or Kosherut law - but I'll check - instead of guess......be back later.
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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AislingGheal
A wave on the ocean
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 Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1445988 - 04/10/03 08:42 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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It seems the Bible is like any other book, it is open to interpretation. That's why there is such diversity within Christianity. There are prohibitions against drunkenness in the Bible but does that equate with the mushroom/cannabis experience? In my opinion if you want to just get intoxicated for an escape, then yes, but for medicinal reasons or for the exploration of consciousness, then no. That's my interpretation and it holds no more weight than any other opinion.
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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao
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Anonymous
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1446040 - 04/10/03 09:12 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Please read the "Be Nice" policy. It is obvious you haven't done so.
Thanks.
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curenado
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Re: Christians? *DELETED* [Re: ]
#1446235 - 04/10/03 10:50 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
Edited by curenado (04/10/03 11:05 AM)
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Dogomush
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1446379 - 04/10/03 11:45 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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woah woah woah, the ark was made of mimosa hostilis? The coffins of the pharoahs? Where'd you learn this? Is there a passage in the bible that says so about the ark?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1446394 - 04/10/03 11:48 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Benny Shanon during his study noted that the Qumran site (Dead Sea Scrolls place...) had a huge field of harmaline producing plant right there.
Syrian rue, the harmaline-producing plant to which you are referring, was used predominantly for it's ability to make a purple dye. There is no solid historical evidence for it's use as an entheogen in that reqion.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Christians? [Re: Swami]
#1446405 - 04/10/03 11:51 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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if im not mistaken.. the bible says sin is something that hurts you, and only you. so if shrooms or weed are somehow detrimental, then i guess its a sin.
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Christians? [Re: ]
#1446533 - 04/10/03 12:28 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<Where'd you learn this? Is there a passage in the bible that says so about the ark? >>
Exodus 25:23 and surrounding "shittim" wood is it.
I would look for the same or similiar word "shita" "Shittim" in my searches for the pharoh's....though it may not be the same
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1446553 - 04/10/03 12:32 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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<<There is no solid historical evidence for it's use as an entheogen in that reqion.>>
But there is for entheogen use, and it is a likely culprit based on the extensive knowledge people did have (more than we often think) in that time. I myself find it a secondary choice because why would experts reach down on the shelf? But there may be other reasons and the specific entheogen search is another realm (to be served well I'd think...) because there are numerous possibilites...
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1447007 - 04/10/03 02:31 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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forget the bible, its too old, write a new bible and call it your "journal" and make up the rules as you go. forget it....let go of old books. its just a book just a book just a book.
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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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atomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!
Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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it doesnt even have any pictures. only live your life according to books that have pictures, especially ones with giant robots and blaster rays that spray lazer beams.
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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.
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JssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty
Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Quote:
it doesnt even have any pictures
lmao
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1 Timothy 4:1-5 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
--
--
Matthew 15:10-20 (KJV)
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
--
Just to clarify, the plants not planted by God in verse 13 are people, not plants. God created all life, all plants, all animals, everything.
Basically, there is nothing "sinful" to eat, or put in your body. If what you eat, read, hear, see, etc... distracts you from focusing on God, then you have sinned. However, "if it be received with thanksgiving" then there is nothing sinful about it.
edit: what happened to html? oh well
PS: Here is a nice link for anyone interested in looking stuff up in the Bible.
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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (04/10/03 03:50 PM)
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djd586
Underpants Gnome
Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 1,655
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1447303 - 04/10/03 03:58 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Part of my family is "Born-again Christian." Their whole life revolves around Christ and living their live by the word of The Bible. They believe in putting absolutely no impurities into their body that would cloud their judgement and and allow Satan to temp them into his world. I don't know if all christians live by the same creed or not... if they do, I doubt you wouldn't any browsing the message boards in the shroomery to give you an honest answer to what they think about the evils of drugs. A lot of people say that God created all living things in the world and that consuming something like mushrooms is not sacrelgious... but I think a lot of Christians would argue that God didn't create everything on Earth and that many of the things we consume, such as marijuana and mushrooms are the devil's way of distracting us from God.
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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1447327 - 04/10/03 04:03 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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At the risk of invoking the ire of our moderator, I will point out a simple observation that may shed some light on the demeanor of your personality. It is significant to the analytically oriented that when you respond to a post, you include the quote of the one to whom you are responding, but you do not address the individual as an individual - a 'thou.' It is your own name that appears in your response and it appears as though you are conducting a monologue with yourself from this - a kind of solipsistic exercise in intellection. Now, try to imagine, if you will, conducting a dialogue with others in a face-to-face manner. It is doubtful that your delivery would be the same in person. Manifest condescension in no way makes one superior, it merely illustrates insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, which I'm certain you are not trying to convey.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Christians? [Re: djd586]
#1447335 - 04/10/03 04:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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The literal definition of sin is "division" as the previous poster notes, and the word also says what Christ has united cannot be divided by man from God, or any power UNDER heaven - in these times nothing but you can divide you from your creator. That is your power deal. Your total trump card. Satan can only tempt, his power doesn't hold up to yours in the end...
The Bible makes it very clear that it's OK not to use anything also, and we're not supposed to bother or harm each other over it either way...
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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JssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty
Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 446
Loc: Vatican City
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: djd586]
#1447365 - 04/10/03 04:14 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think a lot of Christians would argue that God didn't create everything on Earth
Any Bible-believing Christian who would give you this answer is not being true to their beliefs. Either they do not believe the Bible, or they deny its accuracy (really the same thing).
--
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
--
--
Revelation 4:11 (KJV)
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
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--
Revelation 10:5-6 (KJV)
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
--
Please refer any "Christian" who tells you that God did not create all things to these verses.
jssmthrfcknchrst
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Christians? *DELETED* [Re: curenado]
#1447372 - 04/10/03 04:18 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
Edited by curenado (04/10/03 04:19 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: djd586]
#1447386 - 04/10/03 04:22 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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It would be very classically 'gnostic' of those Christians to profess that there are multiple creators, Archons, Aeons or a Demiurge or Blind god [Samael]. All things come from the ONE. It is humankind that has 'fallen' from continual grace, and that 'fallen' nature, separated from the ONE Will, embodies the "evil" that the ONE GOD has also created (Isaiah 45:7 KJV). All things have their rightful use in the right hands - from psilocybin to plutonium. The problem is that these and other things fall into the wrong hands, resulting in "disaster" (Isaiah 45:7 NIV).
Everything issues from the ONE, including evil or disaster. This is a hard nut for the 'sweetness and light' theologies that have learned to project everything negative in existence into one cosmic Shadow - the Devil - who also issues from GOD. There is no escape from the difficult truth that GOD alone is the sole Author of creation, and there is no ONE to blame for the threats to temporal existence.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1447468 - 04/10/03 04:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are not my client here, and I am not your Doctor. My observation is simply that - an observation, not a clinical assessment or evaluation, or a diagnosis. We have exchanged no fees for services rendered. Moreover, it was with an apology to our Moderator that I prefaced the above post, if you re-read it, not an attempt to influence him or anyone to attack you. You are doing a good enough job yourself of feeling attacked, when my intention was merely to reflect your arrogance.
I continue here because of the level of intelligence among the regular posters - even the one's whom I am philosophically at loggerheads with, not because they are "dumb and leadable" - YOUR words! As to your ridiculous demand for me to violate my anonymity at this forum...that demand should speak for itself among the members here.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
Edited by curenado (04/10/03 05:06 PM)
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AislingGheal
A wave on the ocean
Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 988
Loc: Northern Ohio
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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 Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1447639 - 04/10/03 06:07 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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You are a scholar? If so then answer me this; why is it that when I open the Bible I can find no literal reference to cannabis or magic mushrooms? Do I need to be a scholar to read the Bible, do I need to be fluent in Hebrew and Greek, do I need to accompany you or someone else on an archeological dig, do I need more books, what? The Bible is supposed to be the inspired word of God, if so why do I have to depend on ANYONE else to interpret it for me?
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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao
Edited by AislingGheal (04/10/03 06:19 PM)
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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It really is only a matter of language and time - the specific references to cannabis are all places where you see, in the hebrew "knh bsm", or "knh" (kaneh bosm or kaneh) and in the english "sweet calamus", "calamus" and "sweet cane". The theory that the acoris calamus is the plant referred to is very very weak, and the cannabis one is backed up by history, anthropology, archaeology and theology - all showing evidence.
I think you can read the word for yourself. I was offering a bit of what we know as the actual history of a word and a plant from it's journey through the first written language to us today. The Bible occurs in Hebrew, aramaic and greek, and when we in modern times go looking for references we go back to the originals, or as close as we can get!
It wasn't just the semites either. Cannabis was a staple of the ancient marketplace and is listed among the chief trade items. The entire middle east....everybody knows this?
Sula Benet - Institute for anthropolical studies at warsaw - cannabis and culture
an excellent beginning reference
I myself am not satisfied that we have put our finger on mushrooms in the Bible, and I have not pursued the thing enough to risk passing off misinfo. I don't want to say it is not so because I have not searched it all over - but I can't show you anything in the scripture with confidence about tripping except the above story about Leah's mandrakes. (Up in the thread...)
Where you see references to the "flowers of the field" in the song of solomon et all, they mean poppies. We know that one with more confidence.
The Word shouldn't be a labor - it should be a break.....
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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AislingGheal
A wave on the ocean
Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 988
Loc: Northern Ohio
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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 Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1448092 - 04/10/03 08:52 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank you, your response helped me see your point of view much better and the topic is interesting. I'll take your suggestions and explore the subject further over the coming weeks.
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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1448210 - 04/10/03 09:31 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you weren't so irascible, not to mention foolish, you could access former posts, or posts in another forum, before putting both feet in your mouth. I've been here quite a bit longer than you have, and although not everyone is my buddy, long-time Shroomerites know much more about me than you do.
Now, what you believe about me is completely in error, and though I do not have any need to answer to you, I do feel a need to clarify error, lest someone impressionable take your words for truth. In fact, I did earn a Ph.D. from a major university in 1983, and I have been licensed to practice psychotherapy in my home state since 1985. I also hold four national certification specialties. But this forum is one of my avocations, which flows from the same motivation as my vocation - from the Latin for 'calling.' If you want to PM me, that is one thing, but if I discern malicious intent on your part, you certainly are not going to get personal information. I'm not going to be annoyed by yet another paranoid, this time complaining to the Department of Professional Regulation about his distorted perception of my ethics as we banter on the Shroomery.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Anonymous
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Gotta back you up here Bro.
This is not a personal issue and though we like each other you know full well that I do not play favorite. If anything I am harder on the ones I like because I feel they need to set a higher standard.
Curendo, or whatever his name is, is clearly out of line.
And asking for someone's personal information in the forum is WAY out of line. If I were you I wouldn't give it to him.
Excuse me while I go delete a few posts.
Cheers,
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Anonymous
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
#1449223 - 04/11/03 09:23 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Friend, you are clearly baiting. I asked you to read the policy. Either you read it and decided to act against it or you did not understand it.
I police this forum and as a rule I am extremely lax. You are out of line and I am deleting the majority of your posts in this thread.
No ire from me either. Just doing my job.
Sorry. 
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Christians? [Re: ]
#1449380 - 04/11/03 10:34 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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From "Sachel" (Common Sense) a current document of the covenant Essenes......not saying you or I agree or have to...etc..etc..
"Introit
In recent years, scholars and investigators have put forth revelations regarding the history and use of the minor sacraments ("entheogens" in the nomenclature of post modern acadamia...) in the Church and among the faithful. The faithful and faithless alike peer deeply into the origens, practices and history of our faith, and we must make every effort to ensure that in response the Church does not seek to control this information and inspection, but rather to aid it in every way; for the Lord has said that the truth shall make us free, and we in the faith must abide in the Word.
Before we begin we can have confidence of our outcome; we shall be free, not because we have "escaped" or hidden ourselves from the discussion of such sacred things - but because we have searched them; because we will have demonstrated to ourselves again the might and power and liberty of God, and because we will have demonstrated faith and hope before the congregations. We will have established in more modern terms those distinctions which modern enquirers can utilize, and broadened our own foundations by the more confident knowledge that comes from personal investigation. Modern scholars whom we adore for their labors, skill and courage may discover in their journeys what the faithful already know. The faithful can only be enriched by their adventures, for the knowledge of Elohim is healing to the faithful.
No mind can readily accept a concept that states we might find our creator in a sacrament - yet all faiths intuit that the sacrament is more than the substance. The Word teaches us that the seed of the eternal lies within mankind, therefor the Church must logically and scientifically presume that the sacraments serve to uplift mankind towards the divine by moving them spiritually and giving inner voice to their living spirit. Though we know the presence of God's spirit overcomes and reconciles all things, we must not detract in the slightest from the sacraments God has given us, and through which so many millions have come to the light of faith in the memory of mankind. Further, the Church as repository should adequately meet the needs of the faithful in all matters of worship and the sacraments, through it's education ministries and in the training of it's priests. The Church has a primary concern of serving as a well from which all may freely drink, and it's response to any aspect of the divine worship and formation must be interpretable in the degree and level any might feel comforted and enlightened by.
The Church must respond; for ultimately, a secular interpretation of the sacraments ends before the sacred one. That is to say, all arguments return to Holy mystery and the knowledge of Elohim, and even that which we do here is only to comfort ourselves (in that we have served) and others whom we pray may find paths to reconciliation, wherein all things are in the hand of God.
For the secular world, these things can only serve as a means of apologetics from the faithful, and perhaps a basis for consideration in the conducting of secular affairs which frequently adjusts, and historically has sought the council of scholars both within and without the Church on matters which may have impact on the people. There are those whose efforts seem to attempt to reassure governors that only spiritual people for holy reasons may partake of the sacraments, especially the minor sacraments. Yet do we not know that it is those seeking the light of faith who know it least and need it most? Is it not written "For we know what we woship..."? Therefor the Church and the faithful may err, in hoping to reassure where reassurance has already been given by the Lord. We must not be tempted to a premature effort to gain partial influence, amnesty or acceptance, and deny the Word and wisdom of God. Therefor we must endure further than this, we must remain in the word and through it give those answers religious, social and scientific which the congregation or the world may require of us. We must not only give those answers impartially, we must show that these too are reconciled in his Word, wisdom and love, because it is only this that can give anyone true peace and understanding.
Even the late Gordon Wasson, a most highly respected scholar, confessed that he had elitist feelings, and resented persons he thought too spiritually ignorant and dirty, feeling that they pulled the whole matter, and everyone he felt was sincere and a blessing in our race, down into a realm of mindless and base hedonism.
While we can not know how founded these fears are, we must consider whether any person truly prefers to hear a "placatory diatribe" of politically correct sounding arguments specifically attuned to their preconcieved notions and current preferences, or whether they would be the better aided in body, mind and spirit by making our primary concern clarity and information. We must have faith in others as we have faith in God and believe that persons will in the end agree to be reasonable, kind and just with each other as God would have us be. If my brother is to respect me spiritually and intelectually, and perchance because of that to consider my words, then I cannot having been granted audience, insult his spirit and intelligence through my own lack of courage or forthrightness. By dissolving the barriers of understanding we increase the pathways of Shalom (peace).
Understanding the Sacraments themselves
Mankind has no memory or written record that was present when union with the divine became fixed in the sacraments. No one can say with certainty which of the sacraments preceded which, and indeed even in known sacramental history mankind's degree of reverance and approach to them has been varied.
In the simplest terms, a sacrament reminds us of the love and power of our creator. Every other attachment which may be made to any of the sacraments is ultimately secondary to this. The sacraments heal; and participation in sacramental life is quietly, though vitally, important to the members of the clergy and congregations of the whole world. Traditions associated with the sacraments are extreme by nature, and a good example from our own house is shown in the ancient Essene brother's fear of being excluded from the sacred meal. His willingness to face possible starvation rather than to partake of that which might diminish him in the eyes of the Lord and the Yachad (unity/congrgation) emphasizes the priority placed on the sacraments and sacred life by the faithful both in history and today......"
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: ]
#1451303 - 04/11/03 10:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the back up - really.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 4,568
Loc: The Land of Enchantment
Last seen: 8 hours, 31 minutes
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Oh - I thought you were talking to markusthegnostic with the "bite me" - as long as we have resolved the misinformation and biblical misrepresentation issue...I think the rest was superfluous....who could benefit from all that?
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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"Sometimes the only way for a man to find true happiness is to take drugs in a group" - Cochise
No makin funna my pomes!
Edited by curenado (04/11/03 11:29 PM)
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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it doesnt even have any pictures. only live your life according to books that have pictures, especially ones with giant robots and blaster rays that spray lazer beams.
Amen brotha! 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 15 years, 7 days
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
#1451796 - 04/12/03 04:05 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Terror of 'being' was the placenta that accompanied the birth of Christianity, the ultimate cult of domination by the unconstrained male ego. The abandonment of the ego-dissolving rites of visionary plants has allowed what began as an individually maladaptive style to become the guiding image of the entire social organism."
Terrence McKenna - Food of the Gods
My point being that you shouldn't allow Christianity to be your guiding image - esp. if you truly aren't a Christian. Do what YOU think is right. Avoid doing things YOU think are wrong. Plants and fungii are natural occurrences. How can it possibly be wrong to partake of them?
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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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Anonymous
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Not a problem Brother Markos.
Most of the time you are a thoughtful welcome addition to the Shroomery. I read most of your posts thoroughout the Shroomery.
You know me. If I am anything, I am fair.
And thanks for your professional, thoughtful, contributions to the Support Group Central. You have the heart of a care-giver. The world needs more people like you.
Cheers,
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 15 years, 7 days
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>I have heard a lot of buddhist monks say that all drugs are bad because the first thing they
make you do is loose control, which you need to meditate.<
Taking this particular Buddhist precept literally, indeed ALL intoxicants are too be avoided because they may cause one to lose control. Rather than simply affecting ones abiity to mediate, the loss of control more importantly may cause one violate other precepts. Kinda like, you get high and the next thing you do you're out banging whores and killing things - (that's already two of the other five precepts you've violated). My personal 'interpretation' of this particular precept is that one should simply avoid those intoxicants that from ones personal experience are prone to cause on to stray from the path of wholesomeness. Take alcohol, for example, something that most Christians have no second thoughts about. Alcohol is something that Buddhists in general avoid. I know that if you pour a few drinks down my throat I end up with the urge to commit unwholesome acts (being unfaithful for example) and do other things I'd otherwise never do. Coke or speed (for me) had the same result as alcohol - and I've learned that these too, should should be avoided at all cost. Tripping? - the last thing i wanna do is stray from the path of righteousness - in fact I'm probably as wholesome as I ever am whilst tripping. Admittedly this may be twisted logic, but it has allowed me as a Buddhist to continue to use psychedelics without hesitation. I think many of us view it in the same manner.
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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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 Re: Christians? [Re: ]
#1453491 - 04/12/03 07:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank you for your support, and your kind words. According to Susan Zannos in 'Human Types: Essence and the Enneagram,' I am a 'King of Hearts,' a personality type coming from the Intellectual Part of the Emotional Center, in the Gurdjieffian system. So, I really can't claim any credit for any heart-mind that passes through my being. On the other hand...there are those qualities that come out when I'm not being a "thoughtful welcome addition to the Shroomery," the self-righteousness, an occasional dash of pomposity, impatience with dopey adolescent dopers...
Some people just can't take a compliment. Thanks nevertheless!
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Christians? [Re: jimsuzo]
#1453531 - 04/12/03 08:01 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Aldous Huxley referred to psychedelics as "Moksha Medicine," the medicine of liberation. Drugs may mean medicines, not mere inebriants, particularly consciousness-dispersing or diminishing substances like opiates and alcohol. Many artistic representations of Buddhas, including one of my own - a Yab-Yum (Female Prajna astride Male Compassion) - has a medicine bowl in his hands.
The German-born Tibetan Buddhist Lama, Anagarika Govinda (who wrote 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism') once said that after years of meditating for up to 10 hours a day, and possessing the highest degree in his field (Lama), he never Really understood until he took LSD. He wrote a preface to Leary et als. 'The Psychedelic Experience.'
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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jimsuzo
I am the Eggman
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 15 years, 7 days
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Interesting stuff about Anagarika Govinda. I was not aware of it. Even though I'm aware Leary's 'Psychedelic Experience', I've not yet read it. I'm glad you mentioned it cos I'm going to order it ASAP.
As for drugs, I'm certainly aware that the definition goes beyond mere intoxicants, but my understanding of Buddhist precepts is that only intoxicanting drugs are off-limits. Maybe that's just my interpretation, but hey - my interpretation allows one to trip and smoke weed cos those substances don't cause one to stray from the path to enlightenment.
For the record - i agree with McKenna that TV should be classified as a drug - talk about concsiousness dispersing.
Peace -
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There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million
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