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Offlinecurenado
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Registered: 04/01/03
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445814 - 04/10/03 08:00 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality>>

That seems to be what, in fact, you are trying to impose -


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445816 - 04/10/03 08:03 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today? >>

No, rash one, the thought is that over time the original garden spread out and took over the spot like plants so often naturally do - and I am not making suppositions I am following schoalship in and outside of the Church


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445821 - 04/10/03 08:08 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<Right...so, because (what harmaline-containing plant???) someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today?>>

The thought is that the original garden over the years spread out untended and took over. I am not making suppositions - you do that - I study current scholarly resources in and outside of the Church like grownups do...



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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445823 - 04/10/03 08:09 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry about the duplication folks....my fault


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445831 - 04/10/03 08:18 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known>>
Well, if you ever did any real scholarship or had any real basis in the faith and history you would know that much more is known than was....but hey - I'm really just saying talk about something you know or spare people - that was an Essene ethic - we know!


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445847 - 04/10/03 08:45 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

"....The first case I shall note is one in which an explicit mention
of a psychoactive plant is actually made ? it involves Rachel, Jacob's beloved wife. Initially, Jacob loved Rachel much more than he did Leah, her sister whom his father in-law obliged him to marry as well. However, because Rachel was barren,
Jacob stayed with Leah, a state of affairs which upset Rachel to the point
of wishing to die. Given this background, the scriptures recount:
And Reuben [Jacob's first son, whose mother is Leah] went in the days
of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah.
Then Rachel said to Leah: Give me, I pray thee, of thy son's mandrakes. And she
said unto her: Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest
thou take away my son's mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie
with thee tonight for thy son's mandrakes (Genesis, 30.14?15).
This story is, I find, truly amazing. After the biblical text makes it very clear that
the most important thing in Rachel's life was the love of her husband whom she
was forced to share with her hated sister, we are told that this very Rachel is willing to sacrifice her relationship with her husband in order to obtain
some mandrakes. Furthermore, it is noted that Leah, too, highly valued the mandrakes, for she compares the taking away of these to the taking away of Jacob, the target of rivalry and animosity between the two sisters. Apparently, the reason the narrator inserts this episode within the main story, whose subject matter is Jacob's relationship with his wives and the manner in which his sons (the founders to the twelve tribes of Israel) were begotten, is to indicate how valuable mandrakes were in early Israelite society. Mandrakes are, of course, highly psychoactive
(see, for instance, Schultes and Hofmann, 1979)."

**Apparently, the reason the narrator inserts this episode within the main story** as a scholar I'm not sure I completely agree with Shanon's theory on why the story was there.....that's all :grin:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Edited by curenado (04/10/03 08:48 AM)


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Offlinecurenado
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Registered: 04/01/03
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445858 - 04/10/03 08:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<(what harmaline-containing plant???)>>

<<There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present>>

"it is interesting to note that in the Southern region of Israel and in the Sinai
peninsula there grow two plants that can induce psychoactive effects. One is Peganum Harmala, and the other Mimosa hostilis. Significantly, these two plants
respectively contain the molecules contained in Banisteriopsis caapi and Psychotria viridis, the two plants which are the constituents of the powerful Amazonian brew ayahuasca. ...........A further examination of the Scriptures reveals that Mimosa (shita, in Hebrew)wood had a very special status: It is
from it that the ancient Israelites constructed the tabernacle and built the ark in which the Tables of the Covenant were guarded. (Curiously, the coffins of the pharaohs too were made out of this wood.) Apparently, this is not because the wood was especially valuable ? rabbinical commentaries on the Bible explicitly note that is was not.....(to the point man!)....... led me to look for Peganum in the Judean desert. An especially large wild field of the plant is found just next door to the Qumran caves, the home of the Essenes, the ancient Judaic (and perhaps proto-Christian) mystic group who lived in that area from the second century BC to the second century AD. Qumran is also the place where the oldest biblical
manuscripts (along with other religious texts), the so-called Dead Sea
scrolls, have been found. I was startled..."


:ooo: 


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Registered: 04/01/03
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445888 - 04/10/03 09:25 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<Jesus was bound by Jewish dietary laws, and a dung-loving mushroom, for example, would have been out of the question.>>

OK - do you mean kosherut law, or some other dietary law Jesus would have been bound by that you know of from a paperback book? I'm not arguing that point here - though we have kosher mushrooms now I guess they were probably too dumb back then..... (?)....
However - psilocybe mushrooms are not the only psychoactive fungi and more than one culprit is suspected as a possibility.....also, I personally can't remember PTRYH (fungi/mushrooms) being mentioned in the Torah or Kosherut law - but I'll check - instead of guess......be back later.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineAislingGheal
A wave on the ocean
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1445988 - 04/10/03 10:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)


It seems the Bible is like any other book, it is open to interpretation. That's why there is such diversity within Christianity. There are prohibitions against drunkenness in the Bible but does that equate with the mushroom/cannabis experience? In my opinion if you want to just get intoxicated for an escape, then yes, but for medicinal reasons or for the exploration of consciousness, then no. That's my interpretation and it holds no more weight than any other opinion.


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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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Anonymous

Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1446040 - 04/10/03 11:12 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Please read the "Be Nice" policy. It is obvious you haven't done so.

Thanks.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #1446235 - 04/10/03 12:50 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Mr_Mushrooms


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Edited by curenado (04/10/03 01:05 PM)


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1446379 - 04/10/03 01:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

woah woah woah, the ark was made of mimosa hostilis? The coffins of the pharoahs? Where'd you learn this? Is there a passage in the bible that says so about the ark?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1446394 - 04/10/03 01:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Benny Shanon during his study noted that the Qumran site (Dead Sea Scrolls place...) had a huge field of harmaline producing plant right there.

Syrian rue, the harmaline-producing plant to which you are referring, was used predominantly for it's ability to make a purple dye. There is no solid historical evidence for it's use as an entheogen in that reqion.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Christians? [Re: Swami]
    #1446405 - 04/10/03 01:51 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

if im not mistaken.. the bible says sin is something that hurts you, and only you. so if shrooms or weed are somehow detrimental, then i guess its a sin.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: ]
    #1446533 - 04/10/03 02:28 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<Where'd you learn this? Is there a passage in the bible that says so about the ark? >>
Exodus 25:23 and surrounding :smile: "shittim" wood is it.
I would look for the same or similiar word "shita" "Shittim" in my searches for the pharoh's....though it may not be the same


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1446553 - 04/10/03 02:32 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<<There is no solid historical evidence for it's use as an entheogen in that reqion.>>
But there is for entheogen use, and it is a likely culprit based on the extensive knowledge people did have (more than we often think) in that time. I myself find it a secondary choice because why would experts reach down on the shelf? But there may be other reasons and the specific entheogen search is another realm (to be served well I'd think...) because there are numerous possibilites...


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1447007 - 04/10/03 04:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

forget the bible, its too old, write a new bible and call it your "journal" and make up the rules as you go. forget it....let go of old books. its just a book just a book just a book.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Christians? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1447016 - 04/10/03 04:33 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

it doesnt even have any pictures. only live your life according to books that have pictures, especially ones with giant robots and blaster rays that spray lazer beams.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
Son of the LordGod Almighty

Registered: 10/12/02
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Re: Christians? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1447270 - 04/10/03 05:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

it doesnt even have any pictures



lmao

--
1 Timothy 4:1-5 (KJV)
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
--

--
Matthew 15:10-20 (KJV)
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
--

Just to clarify, the plants not planted by God in verse 13 are people, not plants. God created all life, all plants, all animals, everything.

Basically, there is nothing "sinful" to eat, or put in your body. If what you eat, read, hear, see, etc... distracts you from focusing on God, then you have sinned. However, "if it be received with thanksgiving" then there is nothing sinful about it.

edit: what happened to html? oh well

PS: Here is a nice link for anyone interested in looking stuff up in the Bible.


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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (04/10/03 05:50 PM)


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Offlinedjd586
Underpants Gnome

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 1,655
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1447303 - 04/10/03 05:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Part of my family is "Born-again Christian." Their whole life revolves around Christ and living their live by the word of The Bible. They believe in putting absolutely no impurities into their body that would cloud their judgement and and allow Satan to temp them into his world. I don't know if all christians live by the same creed or not... if they do, I doubt you wouldn't any browsing the message boards in the shroomery to give you an honest answer to what they think about the evils of drugs. A lot of people say that God created all living things in the world and that consuming something like mushrooms is not sacrelgious... but I think a lot of Christians would argue that God didn't create everything on Earth and that many of the things we consume, such as marijuana and mushrooms are the devil's way of distracting us from God.


--------------------

Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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