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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: nubious]
    #1708395 - 07/12/03 02:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Enter wrote-
Paul the Apostle wrote very specific instructions ....

From what I'm reading it sounds like you do not consider the whole Word as inspired. I apologize if I am wrong. Paul, Peter, John, Moses, Jeremiah ect. did not write the scriptures of themselves. Under the Holy Spirit these men wrote and every word is from God and is infallable, inerrant and providentially preserved.

2 Peter 1:20-1
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


Enter wrote-
Some people have a longer list of "what will get you into eternal hell" than others.

What gets you into hell is ANY sin in the least of the law. In fact all are already under judgment by the first transgression in Adam.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Adam's (the Federal head of the race) transgression condemned the entire race, Christ's righteousness covers the sins of His elect since he represents them and has become a surety on their behalf.

Personal obediance has nothing to do with becoming or staying justified. Personal obediance is seen by those who have been converted. If a person claims to be Christian and yet does not repent and obey the Word, then this shows he is non-elect (unless converted later) and is a false professor. Almost all today fall into this category.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
    #1708402 - 07/12/03 02:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I was taught in school that "mana" was probably the dried resin from desert plants that had been bitten by insects. The juices were very sweet and would seep out of wounds and dry quickly into a thin film that could be peeled off, or would fall to the ground in flakes around the plant.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: fivepointer]
    #1708440 - 07/12/03 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: trendal]
    #1708442 - 07/12/03 02:32 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
    #1708516 - 07/12/03 03:18 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

<<I was taught in school that "mana" was probably the dried resin from desert plants that had been bitten by insects. The juices were very sweet and would seep out of wounds and dry quickly into a thin film that could be peeled off, or would fall to the ground in flakes around the plant. >>

I picked that up too along the way, but can't remember where exactly? A locust type buggy of some sort?
The biggest hole in the manna theory for me is the daily consumption of psilocybin - I think it's a great medicine but have never tried to do that......it also does not possess the nutrition requirements of a tribe of all age desert dwellers.
This does not detract from the possibilities and supporting evidence, I'm just saying it may be in another direction besides the manna....


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: curenado]
    #1708530 - 07/12/03 03:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

<<is a false professor. Almost all today fall into this category.>>

I think more by ignorance and clumsiness than malice though  :blush: - except for the mean ignorant ones :nonono:....and well there they are then..... :shake:

I don't think anyone here was trying to be one o' those........ 


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: fivepointer]
    #1708537 - 07/12/03 03:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What gets you into hell is ANY sin in the least of the law. In fact all are already under judgment by the first transgression in Adam.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.





Yes, that's what James said... But I find it more enlightening to read the accounts of what Jesus said and did. Jesus and his disciples broke the law all the time. They illegally plucked ears of corn on the sabbath:

Mark 2:23
And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

And at one point the Pharisees complained when Jesus and his company didn't bother to wash their hands before eating, and Jesus countered:

Mark 7:8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Throughout the gospels, Jesus is constantly playing a game of rhetoric with the Pharisees. When he talks about the law he means acting with a loving spirit, in a responsible way, with the focus on the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisees on the other hand are always talking about very important written rules that must be obeyed to the letter. Jesus always trips the logic of the rule-fanatics. I can't see how anyone can read the gospels and miss this point.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
    #1710363 - 07/13/03 01:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Hey enter i wounder if you are open minded about the serpents side of the story.  :grin: :devil: 

here 


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1710410 - 07/13/03 02:00 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

JohnnyFive - it seems that you are just trying to be antagonistic and promote satan and the matrix as a religion? (To replace starwars perhaps now that you're aging some?)
Oh and by the way -
<<Some of the scenes in the movie are directly out of books by Carlos Castaneda; an anthropology professor who became the student of a real Yaqui Indian sorcerer called Don Juan.>>

Everybody with two bits of IQ knows that Carlos made up the series - it's common knowledge. There are some common threads in them but the series is manufactured and still no Don Jaun (maybe he is morpheus dude?)
Satan still the father of lies and bringer of strife among men......
Great gig dude.......


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: World Spirit]
    #1710501 - 07/13/03 02:44 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah...I believe that one of the reasons that I'm growing my hair long again (besides that fact that Rose likes it, it looks good on me, blah, blah, blah...is just because the [probably] bald Saul/Paul calls it "shameful." But, of course, unbalding Jewish men of the day wore their hair long, oiled, and pony-tailed (like the figure on the Shroud of Turin (regardless of its authenticity or lack thereof). Of course, Paul never in his wildest dreams thought that his letters to new communities of The Way (since folks didn't call themselves Christians yet) were going to be turned into Holy Scriptures (for crying out loud).

Yep...I remember going through my own love-hate relationship with Paul: Albert Scweiter's 'Mysticism of Paul the Apostle,' Gunther Bornkamm's 'Paul, etc., etc. He did illustrate that the resurrected Christ was ontologically different than the man Jesus, and the author we call John extended that theology into Logos-theology. He also had amazing out-of-the-body ecstasies [ecstasy=being beside oneself], and caught up to "the third heaven," which obviously infers some kind of esoteric knowledge (gnosis) about a series of heavens. So, on the one hand Paul makes up his own sense of ethics ("by permission, not commandment"), he is misogynistic, and as some scholars suspect, his 'thorn in his side,' may be a nagging homosexuality behind his misogyny and his asking married men to be as though they didn't have wives. On the other side, he is an example of some pretty classical mystical experiences.

It is probable that Paul would have relegated mushroom use - even ritually handled, as was the Kykeon at Eleusis - as pharmakeia - sorcery. Today, we understand pharmacy to be an aspect of medicine - even psychiatric medicine, and by more hip intellectuals, as Huxley's "Moksha [liberation] Medicine." The Indians had Soma (probably a mushroom), and the Greeks had Claviceps Pasapali ergot at Eleusis - a fungus that also produces tiny mushrooms. If Socrates did in fact partake of the Kykeon, a lot of questions would be answered about how his pupil Plato got his knowledge of archetypes. And if Plato was influenced by psychedelics, then Christianity was influenced by psychedelics inasmuch as Platonic and Neoplatonic elements contribute to a great deal of Christian theology - especially the Johannine stuff. The Native American Church uses peyote as the Body of Christ, and the ancient Greek wines contained not just alcohol, but certain herbs, so that some wines had to be diluted 20:1 with water, or they would kill a man. Dionysus was god of intoxication and madness, not just the grape. No one knows what kind of wine Iesus employed at the Last supper. If it contained psychoactives in order to help his friends get a grasp of the secret things which the masses were told in obtuse parables - so what? That Moses and Aaron compounded a Holy Annointing oil that contained Calamus - and Calamus is full of TMA - a psychedelic precursor to Mescaline which would've been absorbed through the skin, is right out of Exodus. Sorcery? No more than the other magickal stories attributed to Moses. After all, Moses was the adopted son of a Pharoah - a prince, and learned in Egyptian knowledge, which contained medicine and magick.

Sorcery, or low magick has nothing to do with God, but with elemental or Qlippothic [Kabbalistic demonic] spirits. High Magick includes such concepts as Transubstantiation and Sacraments (as embodying a kind of power). I have used the Sacred Mushroom as a sacrament of the One True God, and at a spiritually less-developed point of my life, I called the same substance Magic Mushrooms. The Truth lies in the Intention, not the substance. That is why Baptisms have been considered to be valid, when performed during emergencies, by lay people with urine or sea water. The Divine Intention alone, without Prescribed Formulas of Words and without proper Substance (Holy Water) is recognized. One must discern the Intention of an act to know its essential Truth. Without discernment, people rely on dogmas, which reminds me of the saying, 'if you can't fix something with a hammer, it ain't worth fixing.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1710728 - 07/13/03 04:27 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Damn... religion sure does complicate things.

*runs off humming Soldier Girl by the Polyphonic Spree*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: Sclorch]
    #1710736 - 07/13/03 04:31 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I dig science because it seems way more flexible than most religions, where if somehow there is a discovery that proves "oh hehehe we were probably wrong about that last thing.. whoops.... here's how we think it is NOW, and that is certainly subject to future disproof," then they're willing to admit it, instead of saying things like "no dammit its like THIS; like it ALWAYS HAS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE!"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: Strumpling]
    #1710759 - 07/13/03 04:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that religion and fallibilism are incompatible by definition.

It should be noted that science as an institution is not inherently immune to dogmatic thinking.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711084 - 07/13/03 12:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:

*runs off humming Soldier Girl by the Polyphonic Spree





um
I went to that website
I'm not sure if thise music is too complex for me to understand or if it's actually just REALLY LAME. *confused*  :oogle:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711332 - 07/13/03 02:12 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

No my friend, religion simplified the innumerable choices set before me during late adolescence. THE question was: "How shall I Be?" Should I be greedy, materialistic, womanizing, lying-when-I-want to, stoned-full-time, selfish, warm and fuzzy, mean, out-for-myself, etc., etc., etc.

The answer was: 'BE THOU COMPASSIONATE.' Simple.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1711619 - 07/13/03 04:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah... I gave up on BEing a long time ago.
BEing is for objects of a more static nature than I.
So now I focus on beCOMing... it suits this beast better.


AJ: um
I went to that website
I'm not sure if thise music is too complex for me to understand or if it's actually just REALLY LAME. *confused*


Watch the videos (and check out the band photos)... then you should understand it a little better.
How could you not like a "choral symphonic pop band"?
hehehe


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: No one is listening to me as usual [Re: Sclorch]
    #1712447 - 07/13/03 09:41 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:

Watch the videos (and check out the band photos)... then you should understand it a little better.
How could you not like a "choral symphonic pop band"?
hehehe 




ok... I still don't understand what's going on. if these guys are serious they need to lose the robes and shit, it makes them look silly. if it's a joke band, then it's just not my kind of thing. I guess I just don't get it. I like Mr. Bungle  :confused:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: World Spirit]
    #1719281 - 07/15/03 10:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What school did you go to, if I may ask, Trendal? I'd be interested to know why they taught you about manna and what you think of it today.




It was in High School. I went to a Catholic High School here in Ontario, Canada.

What do I think of it now? I think it's a reasonable explanation. It certainly seems more possible (within what I understand to be the "bounds of physical reality") than little gifts from God. But that may just be my opinion  :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleStroker_Ace
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: Grav]
    #1719429 - 07/15/03 11:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

You can apply the teachings of Jesus without believing that he was resurrected. Because if you believe that, you're sick. End of story. There is nothing that can save humanity at this point. We either get clocked by a meteor, we blow ourselves up with what Einstien had intended to use for time travel or the Sun explodes or the black hole in the center of the milky way galaxy will swallow us. Just enjoy what you got while you got it because it won't be here forever and neither will you or your tainted ego. Deal with it.



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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: To the Christians; From Enter [Re: trendal]
    #1719542 - 07/15/03 11:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

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