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InvisibleSHiZNO
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Registered: 03/14/03
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Christians?
    #1415982 - 03/28/03 04:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I am not Christian, but was wondering, if getting high/tripping goes against that religion, i know alot of people argue Marijuana is gods herb and support it with the bible, but i am also sure it says something about not doing anything to your body like that...someone enlighten me!


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InvisibleSHiZNO
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1415984 - 03/28/03 04:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

so basically im asking: is it a sin to eat shrooms/smoke weed?


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OfflineAbFab
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1416256 - 03/28/03 11:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

there is a thread in S+P called "being christian and doing shrooms" that i think sums it up pretty well.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1416932 - 03/29/03 04:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I 'came to Christ' throught insights gleaned through the psychedelic experience - not necessarily mushrooms, but mushrooms are purely natural psychedelics (whereas the LSD I used is semi-natural). That radical change from ego to Christ as the recognized Center and 'Lord' or 'Master' of my life became manifested through the ritual of Baptism and through a change of direction in my life from pre-med to receiving academic degrees in philosophy, theology and psychology. I have been a licensed mental health professional since 1985 as a means of employment as well as the opportunity to practice Compassion.

Cannabis Sativa/Indica did nothing to enhance my life AFTER the first 3 times I got stoned. Much lifetime was wasted - a whole new meaning for the expression 'wasted' - between 1969 and about 1979. It was behind the drop in grades in college, retarded emotional and social development, and a major obstacle for finding the true Source of lasting peace, calmness and fearlessness. It was a drug addiction. It made me slow in reflex, damaged memory and the ability to learn new material, and created apathy, which translates non-clinically into 'lazy bum.' It represents an infantile regressive state, which can account for its only positive quality of enhancing the senses, at the expense of physical powers (reflexes, breathing), intellectual functioning, and spiritual growth.

There is nothing in the Bible to support the use of cannabis or mushrooms. Attempts have been made to translate 'manna' and 'shewbread' into shrooms; and calamus, found in the Holy Annointing oil in Exodus (Acorus Calamus IS psychedelic - TMA, a precursor to mescaline) has been reinterpreted as 'cannabis,' but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek. Neither is the ridiculous Rasta claims for the word 'grass,' to mean cannabis because thousands of years later people called cannabis, grass.

Mushrooms could loosely be considered to constitute 'pharmakeia' in Greek which means both sorcery and drugs (sorcery has always employed drugs), in which case shrooms would be condemned. On the other hand, if, like the Holy Annointing oil which would've been highly psychedelic, shrooms open one's spiritual eye to the Reality of God, then the magic has been appropriated by God Himself. The magic of Moses was of God, and overcame the magic of Pharaoh's sorcerers (Moses' staff-turned-snake ate the Pharoah's sorcerers' staffs-turned-snakes if you'll recall). So bottom line is whether these things actually makes one a better servant of the Almighty, be it Jew, Christian, Muslim or whatever, or does not. Since I am a Jewish Christian, and God is a central focus in my lfe, my trips are the trips of a Jewish Christian. For me, psychedelics have long been what Huxley called "Moksha Medicine," medicine of liberation. The liberation means freedom from worldliness, inordinate attachment (vices), and 'sin,' be it lying or anything that isn't about Truth. This is my witness. Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineScvotto_Turellskey
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Re: Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1417005 - 03/29/03 05:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmmmm, interesting.
The ten commandments as set down in the old testamnet don't really say anything about it.
((go here to brush up : http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/10commandments.html ))
Jesus whole view of the way people should live is generally taken from his "sermon on the mount", and well, he just expands on the commandments, giving a fuller meaning to each one.
(( try here: http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sermon/sermon.htm ))
Well he doesn't really say anything about it.
If you followed Jesus teachings you could say, as long as you don't hurt anyone, then there is not a problem (probably not what your local vicar/priest/cleric will tell you).
However if you were adicted "blah blah" you could hurt people, so that would be different.
Also since you're "made in the image of God" it would be a sin to damage yourself knowingly. Again you could argue you're not damaging yourself, so, that could be ok too.

So. You could argue all day about it.
It's probably ok if you're a good bloke/dame.
I'm sure JC and the guys up in heaven have bigger fish to fry (at least I hope so).


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"They think we are retarded - they are retarded." - The Sultan of Spin.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: Scvotto_Turellskey]
    #1445696 - 04/10/03 05:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

<<There is nothing in the Bible to support the use of cannabis or mushrooms. Attempts have been made to translate 'manna' and 'shewbread' into shrooms; and calamus, found in the Holy Annointing oil in Exodus (Acorus Calamus IS psychedelic - TMA, a precursor to mescaline) has been reinterpreted as 'cannabis,' but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek. Neither is the ridiculous Rasta claims for the word 'grass,' to mean cannabis because thousands of years later people called cannabis, grass.>>

That is absolute and total misinformation - I can see how ignorance upon error has led to all the half truths and pseudo science about this, but marijuana is straight up and undeniably there in multiple places and you are not by any means a theology expert or you would know that. I have a PhD too - so you can't pass that silly hocky by me as easy....your knowledge of languages is p-poor and the etymology of the whole thing has completely escaped you - for being a jewish christian. You should not mislead people about the Word and profess love of God and nieghbor.

<<but this Latin appelation was not intended in Hebrew or Greek.>>
It wasn't latin at all - it was in fact hebrew and greek. I don't want to rag you a bunch, but I would be remiss not to point out one of the poorest understandings I have ever seen of that whole matter and at least try to control damage. Bad doctor!


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1445701 - 04/10/03 05:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I am not Christian, but was wondering, if getting high/tripping goes against that religion, i know alot of people argue Marijuana is gods herb and support it with the bible, but i am also sure it says something about not doing anything to your body like that...someone enlighten me!

Genesis 1:29,

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.


it's OK folks, the Bible says so!


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445706 - 04/10/03 05:55 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

<<So. You could argue all day about it.>>
You don't have to - the word is clear and good.

<<It's probably ok if you're a good bloke/dame.>>
A real step in the right direction

<<I'm sure JC and the guys up in heaven have bigger fish to fry (at least I hope so).>>
Or bigger blunts? Only in our time and culture is the matter so much. If you had all this hulla baloo (zooris in hebrew..) over kaneh in the old days, they would have thought you were a little meshugah
:laugh:
"Drink your gin and tonika and smoke your marijuanica...."
Shalom~shalom


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445711 - 04/10/03 05:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

First rule of true scriptural interpretation: No passage loses it's pashat (simple meaning)

<<<Genesis 1:29,

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

it's OK folks, the Bible says so!>>

Torah Torah Torah
:grin:

...and Jesus too so don't even go there....you don't got the steam! :laugh:


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445721 - 04/10/03 06:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

here's the more accurate King James version:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.



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Offlinecleaner
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1445738 - 04/10/03 06:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

so basically im asking: is it a sin to eat shrooms/smoke weed?





SUPPOSEDLY, Jesus was a cannabis healer and a jewish shaman, so let me reasure you he ate more shrooms every full moon than the whole lot of us in a year.


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Christians? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1445740 - 04/10/03 06:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It depends on what type of Christian you are talking about.  Obviously there are some christian mystics who trip, but I have yet to see a catholic christian doing drugs.  :grin: 


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Christians? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1445744 - 04/10/03 06:40 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In other words, you will find christians from both stand points. This goes the same way with other religious, such as buddhism and hinduism. I have heard a lot of buddhist monks say that all drugs are bad because the first thing they make you do is loose control, which you need to meditate. Personally, I think those monks don't know shit about the drugs, and obviously havn't tried any. There are a lot of buddhist groups that do use psychedelics though.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1445796 - 04/10/03 07:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

<<but I have yet to see a catholic christian doing drugs>>
? :laugh:?
I'm just having fun - I think you covered this very well in your previous post. It was just funny dude... :cool:


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445802 - 04/10/03 07:43 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Bite me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445804 - 04/10/03 07:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Benny Shanon during his study noted that the Qumran site (Dead Sea Scrolls place...) had a huge field of harmaline producing plant right there. We know that harmaline really weirds out and intensifies mushroom tripping. We know that the Essenes were experts in Rapha (Rapha-el = Healing). We wonder things like if the harmalines were used alone or in conjunction (and most likely with what) or both.

"...some of them undertake to predict the future through various purifications, perusal of sacred texts and the use of a digested oracle." - Josephus Flavius on the Essenes

(Essenes were a jewish monastic order for those who did not know that already. They were hallmarked by a number of things, mysticism being one of them. John the Baptist is thought by most now to have been raised at Qumran or nearby, and to have been raised as an Essene.) "...and the Word of God came to Yochanan (John) in the wilderness..."


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: cleaner]
    #1445805 - 04/10/03 07:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present. Jesus was bound by Jewish dietary laws, and a dung-loving mushroom, for example, would have been out of the question. I'm not a mycologist, but the desert dominated geography of Judea and vicinity is not exactly the moist place that suppports much mushroom life. Try not to impose your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality upon Biblical mythos - you only miss the point.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445808 - 04/10/03 07:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

<<Bite me.>>
Well the Jesus falls outta you fast little brother! :smile:

<<For me, psychedelics have long been what Huxley called "Moksha Medicine," medicine of liberation. The liberation means freedom from worldliness, inordinate attachment (vices), and 'sin,' be it lying or

<<<anything that isn't about Truth.>>>
You have to keep faith that the truth will make you free...that is what the word says.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445812 - 04/10/03 07:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Right...so, because (what harmaline-containing plant???) someone planted Passion Flower, or something, somewhere in the Middle East, that same field dwelt there two or more millennia ago? You are making suppositions about scattered Essene communities, of which little is known, based on the existence of some mysterious field of flowers today?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Christians? [Re: curenado]
    #1445813 - 04/10/03 07:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

<<There is no shamanic culture within Judaism, past or present. >>

Again - you prove your p-poor knowledge of jewish history and faith

<y not to impose your own temporary understanding of Transcendental Reality upon Biblical mythos - you only miss the point>>

Try not to cleverly make a mythos out of truth - no one ever claimed the Bible was a myth. You missed the point a long time ago.....


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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