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Anonymous

My Take On Christianity
    #1230447 - 01/19/03 07:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I wasn't really raised as a Christian, although I come from a protestant background. This is my take on Christianity.

The Bible- The Bible is not the Word of God... but mere words of men. There is some wisdom in it, but alot of people miss it by taking things literally. It incorparates a whole lot of mythology and stories (such as the Adam and Eve business, and whatnot). I think the Old Testament is pretty useless as that it is mostly myths and fables and does not contain the enlightened wisdom of Jesus Christ.

Jesus- Jesus was an enlightened man who had more wisdom than most of us will come to know. However, he was no more perfect than you or I. He was the son of God in the same way that you and I am. And he was not born of a virgin. (Does this make Birth any less of a miracle?). He tried to teach people in ways that the masses could understand. Unfortunatly, they didn't.

The Church- The Roman Catholic church was an organization which formed to hijack the Christian movement and use it to dominate people. It was an extention of the fascist empire of Rome. It is dogmatic and hierarchecal and if Jesus saw what went on after his death, he'd be appalled.

The Resurrection- Jesus and his close followers understood that Death is not and end, but merely a change. Jesus is still here, not just in his words, but as a part of the One. However, the people of Europe were too dumb to understand this and it made a better selling point for the church to be able to tell the pagans, "Jesus arose from the dead!"

God- The notion of God as the Father is a figure of speech. God is not a person, or sentient entity. God is the Universe. God is the One. Life itself is a miracle. Of course, the idea of God as a big strong paranoid man worked better with the theme of, "bow down before the Lord", that the church, in it's efforts to control people, wanted to press. "Obey" is what they're saying. God of course doesn't seek obedience.

The Rise of Christianity could have been a wonderful force of good, but the teachings of Christ were unfortunately hijacked and aldulterated to serve the ends of the ruling class at the time. My 2 cents.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1230479 - 01/19/03 07:37 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Some good ideas in your dissertation on Christianity.

The Church- The Roman Catholic church was an organization which formed to hijack the Christian movement and use it to dominate people. It was an extention of the fascist empire of Rome. It is dogmatic and hierarchecal and if Jesus saw what went on after his death, he'd be appalled.

That really seems possible and I find it to be an attractive idea. I realize that is how I view the church. Why would the ultimate power subject us to the church?

I also think that your view of Jesus' rise from death as a really insightful interpretation.





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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: ]
    #1230527 - 01/19/03 07:56 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1230594 - 01/19/03 08:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The core teachings of the catholic church are in every way opposed to the teachings of christ.

Jesus taught that man,through faith, could go directly to God for all of his needs.Even to relieve himself from the burden of guilt! The catholic church continued to do things the old way,the way things were done under the law, which Jesus said kills the spirit of man.They use man as a go between, the same way the jews used the high priest.

Jesus taught man to pray directly to god. The catholic church teaches men to pray through saints!


The list goes on.......


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Anonymous

Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1230695 - 01/19/03 09:14 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You obviously havent experienced much of what you talk about.
Well... what I'm talking about isn't something to be experienced, but understood. I assume that you are referring to my admitted lack of "training" in Christianity. However, It should be my ideas, not their source, that you contest.
I had a protestant friend who turned Catholic, and explained at great lengths how half-hearted his religion really was..
An anectode about one person's experience. What exactly did he explain during these explainings?
If you deny that Jesus was born to a virgin and that he did arise from the dead, you basically deny the divinity of the messiah..
Life is an amazing phenomena that follows certain rules of the universe. With an understanding of biology, we see that it is impossible for someone to be born of a virgin. Humans are sexually reproducing organisms and require a set of chromosomes from both a male and a female. It is nonetheless a remarkable and amazing occurence. I believe that a birth from 2 parents is a true miracle. A birth from one is a fairy tale. I also believe that long before Jesus was "born", he was the earth upon which we walk. After he "died" he went back to the earth. Birth and Death are superficial. We are all just matter and energy in motion, and have no permenent selves. Jesus knew this. I do not reject the divinity of Christ. But I do reject the idea that he is any more divine than you or I.
The creation of the Roman Catholic church was largely about spreading the message of Jesus and trying to help people implement it in.
History tells us otherwise.
Naturally though, everyone associated with it was human- a fact that many people decide to ignore- and corruption set in.
Right about that.
Think about it though, the word WAS spread and well at that.. The catholic church is still the single most powerful institution in the world.
The teachings of Chris were spread and well at that? Hardly. The Crusades? The Inquisition? Every war ever fought between Christian nations? Did Christ not teach peace and love? Yes, the Roman Catholic Church was the most powerful institution in the world for a long time. I'd say it now ranks second to the U.S. Government though... still, yes, it is very powerful... i guess it must be the right place to go for spiritual guidance then, right?
Basically, your words seem much more to be your take on slightly christian religion, minus the christianity.
My words are my take on what I believe to be the real essence of Christianity, I believe that the words of most churches are indeed "slightly christian religion, minus the christianity"
Esp with your additions which are not part of religion, and your baseless accusations "the people of Europe were too dumb to understand this" only stupify matters more
The literacy rate of Europe during the Dark Ages was well below 5%. People thought the world was flat, there was no science, only superstition. Nations were small and controlled by warlords. Serfdom was the social system... i could keep going... the people of Europe during that time were indeed quite primitive.

I have heard your arguments with an unbiased mind, open to new ideas. It seems very clear to me however, that you did not read mine with the same intent.


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Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1230735 - 01/19/03 09:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I dated a woman that was very Christian for several years.  Her views would conflict with yours in some areas...

Quote:

The Bible- The Bible is not the Word of God... but mere words of men.




She would claim that the Bible is the absolute word of God.  The analogy she used was the prophets were  to God as a pen is to an author.  The pen does the writing by the author decides what is written.

She would almost agree with you with respect to the old testament.  Still the word of God, but not as important as the new testament.  If ever there is a conflict between the two, go with the new and not the old.

:smile: Keep that mind open... boundries always limit.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1231054 - 01/19/03 12:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Whereas you have a few small peripheral points that are true, the bulk of your "take" is completely erroneous from a scholarly point of view. I say scholarly, because one can view the doctrines of Christianity with intellectual detachment, without actually being a Christian. However, the attempt to define or describe any faith from outside of the context of the faith, say from a philosphical humanist or a Hindu or a Jewish stance, is not going to give an accurate picture. Neither will an outside stance be capable of describing just how the actual living of a faith completes a person and how it contributes to his/her human development.

Incidentally, singling out the Old Testament, and comparing it to a new form of wisdom found in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, is anti-Semitism, without any question. The Gospel accounts of Jesus are a direct transposing of OT themes on to a new figure - from Moses to Jesus, from the secreting away of both infants, because of a 'slaughter of the innocents,' to numerous other themes. Jesus is a direct distillation of the Old Testament. As we used to say in seminary, 'The New Testament is concealed in the Old Testament, the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament.' I'd suggest some serious reading of the Old Testment in order to understand the long lineage which Jesus belongs to and emerged from.

If you want a concise interpretation of Christianity that will explain the mythological elements, and the meaning of 'midrash,' the spiritual story-telling technique of ancient Jewish writers, and an enlightened view that can help to balance faith with reason, then read 'Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes' by former Episcopal Archbishop John Shelby Spong. Among other things discussed in this book, is that the Gospels were liturgical pieces intended to conform to the Jewish calendar, since all the writers of the New Testament were Jews, with the possible exception of the physician called Luke. I think you'll appreciate the separation of historical and mythological aspects, and why and who depicted them the way they did.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1231319 - 01/19/03 02:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks. Great Post!


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Re: My Take On Christianity [Re: ]
    #1231840 - 01/19/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for your openness to constructive criticism and instruction!  :smile: 


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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