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OfflineDruginduced
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A thought on religion
    #2181584 - 12/16/03 04:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think if all the religion stories turn out to not be true, and God and Jesus never do come back to earth, then one day religion will become a thing of the past.

Most religions are only going to be relevant for about 1000 more years (or was it 2000?) plus or minus about a thousand years, because we dont know if we have an accurate timescale (at least thats what i see preachers preaching about if it ever becomes the year 4000)

I think its safe to say that in 3000 years religion will be gone from the face of the earth. Unless God comes before then. Kind of like how cavemen used to have to hunt for food or gather berries or whatever the hell they used to do every day. In the year 4000+-500 things will change and there will only be a few groups of people left in the world that still practice religion. They will be compareable to the uncivilized tribes that live in congo and such places today.

But maybe someone will find a new bible that extends relevency of christianity beyond the next thousand or so years. hehe


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Offlinemanna_man
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2181608 - 12/16/03 04:26 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"I think its safe to say that in 3000 years religion will be gone from the face of the earth. Unless God comes before then. Kind of like how cavemen used to have to hunt for food or gather berries or whatever the hell they used to do every day."

I don't think we ultimately "search" for religion. It finds us, in one form or another.
I'm sure that in a few thousand years, they will have undeniable "proof" for god's (in)existence. But whether we find that proof or not, religion will remain because it never rested on "proof" in the first place.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2181681 - 12/16/03 05:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I hope you are right; I really do! But in order for religion to dissapear, something will have to come along to replace it. Religion provides that instant social stamp of approval. Where else can your local serial rapist go to get a backstage pass to wreak havoc?
You really can't beat it with a cross.

In order for it to go bye-bye, something must come along to fill the void that religion fills. And what would that be? I can't forsee anything on the horizon that would come close to the cop-out that religion represents for the average person.

I can agree with you that religion will continue its downward trend in terms of participation. But for the short term, religious affiliation is just too damn convenient of a tool for categorizing strangers. The average person will not make the effort to get to know a person in depth (assuming there is any depth to know) and will accept the first label they can stick on someone to avoid the one thing we all dread: WORK.



--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinezbgeed
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Jellric]
    #2181780 - 12/16/03 07:35 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

time does not exist, it is an illusion. we live in one moment and that moment is eternity. time was created for the purpose of making us forget about the origin of religion.


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Invisiblephobey
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Registered: 03/21/03
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2181847 - 12/16/03 08:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Religion is a mass psychosis don't think that will just stop. Now i think it will change in something that will get more and more real when time passes. I think most people here are trying mushrooms etc to find a believe system i know i have. I know there is more to it than we know but i throw away cristianity cauze well it basicly sucks bigtime and is full of bullshit.

But if your'r right gods time is almost up  :grin: thats good news.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2181860 - 12/16/03 09:08 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Think about all of the children who are psychologically damaged from religion. Growing up and constantly worrying that all of your actions will doom you to a lake of fire for eternity.

I will cast down upon thee with great vengence!!!

And there will be gnashing of teeth, a hell so insufferable.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Jellric]
    #2182130 - 12/16/03 11:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think religion has one important function for a society, it provides a (fantasy) basis for morality. How do you enforce a basis for morality without some kind of promise of punishment or reward? Since this promise obviously (in my opinion) can't be rooted in reality, how would you achieve this in a 'secular religion'?

Anybody got some ideas on what could replace religion in a secular future?

You could base everything on "it's good for society", but I don't think most people would buy that, or even care.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblejpod
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2182196 - 12/16/03 12:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What is your definition of religion? To me religion is simply a core set of beliefs that guide one in life. I would consider things such as basic morals (respecting the life of other human beings, etc.) to be a form of religion as well, in the case. If this is your definition, it would be hard to say that such a thing could conceivably be gone from all life.

If you define religion as the circumstance and ceremony surrounding a given core set of beliefs then I suppose what you say could be true.

Personally I am a Christian and proud of it. However I let my beliefs be governed by what is taught in my Bible, and not what is popularly taught in most forms of Christianity. I don't go to church and I don't listen to evangelists because I think most of them are simply in the buisiness of exploiting my belief system for personal gain.

By the way, I don't know what preachers teach about a certain date for Jesus to return, and I certainly don't know what kind of translation would make them think any such thing. Most translations say that "no man shall know the day".


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OfflineDruginduced
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: jpod]
    #2182325 - 12/16/03 01:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well when I was growing up and attending church I was always under the impression that it was supposed to be around 6000-7000 years after adam & eve came to earth that God would return. I don't know exactly where those dates came from.

In my above post and this post, my definition of religion is not just a set of beliefs but also the rituals and such that go along with them.

A possibility of what may replace religion in the future is the discovery of alien beings. Imagine that we discover them, or they discover us. Therefore we shall be constantly at war with them (because thats the way humans seem to work) until one of us is destroyed (assuming that when our technology is compared to theirs, we are close enough to even have a war with them). If the government could cause enough fear among the masses that the evil aliens were going to obliviate the human race, then I think we could get a lot more people to start thinking like "Is it good for society" etc. (As stated in one of the above posts).


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OfflineFrog
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2182459 - 12/16/03 02:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with jpod.

re?li?gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Frog]
    #2182683 - 12/16/03 03:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i think alot of you guys have some overly radical views on the nature of religion. First of all you cant define religion as christianity. In the time scale of human belief christianity is an insignificant blip, one of hundreds of cults that offshoot from predescessor religions. And christianity has been around for thousands of years. Saying that religion wont die because pedophiles need it to=wreak havoc is ridiculous.

Religion is the belief, in some form that there is more to the world than the mundane and the physical. THat belief is inherent in all peope. Christianity, zen, taoism, hindu etc are just faces on the same coin. To say that people are going to get tired of waiting for god to come doesnt cut it either. Most religions believe there gods are already here, the resurected messiah is just one myth image among millions.

Also, the timeline you mentioned is far from universal. ive never heard it before. nevertheless people have been predicting the date of the appocolypse or the revelation since st john wrote revelations thousands of years ago. everytime the date comes and goes a rational is constructed so that the belief system can continue.

Maybe the main thing is how you view rteligion. If you view it as a structured, dogmatic system of knowledge like many aspects of catholisicm , hebrew etc than you might be right. but religion in the sense of the human drive for spiritual contact with the world wont die away, it will keep evolving, perhaps to its ultimate transcendental goal, perhaps not.

And finally: the whole thing about contact with aliens is alien is nothing but another myth symbol, if you wait for the answer or resolution to life to come down from outerspace, youll be waiting along time. The ufo myth is just a new-religion, and expecting alien contact is no diffrent than 'waiting for god to come to earth'


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OfflineDruginduced
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2183564 - 12/16/03 08:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Pharmakos you bring up a lot of good points. Here is what I think:

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
First of all you cant define religion as christianity. In the time scale of human belief christianity is an insignificant blip,




I think christianity is more than just an insignificant blip. We don't have much DETAIL of what people belived too much earlier than Mesopotamia and such. And the civilization of Mesopotamia dates back to around 3500BC. Thats about 5500 years ago. Christianity has been around for a couple thousand years, lets say 2000. 2000/5500 = 36%. 36% of detailed history has included christianity.


Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:To say that people are going to get tired of waiting for god to come doesnt cut it either. Most religions believe there gods are already here, the resurected messiah is just one myth image among millions.




I was mainly considering christianity as "religion" in my first post. And I didn't mean to imply that people would ever get tired of waiting for God. I meant that soemwhere down the road of time (maybe even 10,000 years from now) people may look back on christianity and think, "wasnt Jesus supposed to come back here by now?" And eventually christianity would just phase out as a possibility of accepted religions.

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
Also, the timeline you mentioned is far from universal. ive never heard it before. nevertheless people have been predicting the date of the appocolypse or the revelation since st john wrote revelations thousands of years ago. everytime the date comes and goes a rational is constructed so that the belief system can continue.




I was mainly considering Mormonism when I put that timeline down. I believe that Mormonism is the most correct and uncontradictional form of christianity that is available today. (this is according to what they teach, not according to the story of Joseph Smith, etc.) I have heard many high ranking Mormons who are well educated in religion state rumors ranging from -My generation's grandchildren will be around when the second coming happens- (im 20 btw), to -It will happen within the next 2000 years-.

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
And finally: the whole thing about contact with aliens is alien is nothing but another myth symbol, if you wait for the answer or resolution to life to come down from outerspace, youll be waiting along time. The ufo myth is just a new-religion, and expecting alien contact is no diffrent than 'waiting for god to come to earth'




I do not expect aliens to ever contact humans. Although I believe aliens most likely do exist (either as the form of a single celled organism, or some other state much more advanced than humans, or as some form of spiritual being, or anywhere inbetween.) Mainly I said that as a possiblity for muhurgle's question:

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Anybody got some ideas on what could replace religion in a secular future?





And I wasn't very serious either.


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Frog]
    #2183593 - 12/16/03 08:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

More info:

Religion
Base word in Latin Religio - to bind or fasten

Religion binds and fastens you to "A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2183642 - 12/16/03 08:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Religion is on the outs in the West because we all subscribe to the new religion of logic. Because we believe so strongly in logic we become trapped into a predictable and materialistic existance. Our culture has lost the mysticism that gives life to it and ties us to the deeper truths of existance. We got so hung up on conceptually and rationaly understanding the world that we got disconnected from reality.
That is what drugs are for: to remind us of truths that exist outside of our own conceptual understanding.

Even in physics and cosmology human knowledge has its limits. For example scientists theorize that before the Big Bang the laws of physics as we know them couldn't have existed! They are know discovering that the Universe is filled with matter that can't be seen or detected, and is expanding by some force that also cannot be explained.

What we won't admit is that logic can only take you so far, and that experience is the key. I think once we are all worn out with the nihilism of scientific thinking we will return to mysticism and spirituality because they show us deeper truths that we experience with our whole consciousness and not just our abstract thinking.

In this regard I think religion is a good thing. It may not be logical, or true in a physical sense as far as we can measure, but those values are only a product of our culture. What matters is experiencing the truth, and that is where mysticism succeeds and human science fails.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2183780 - 12/16/03 10:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

mysticism succeeds and human science fails

Fails how? How can you be sure that the truths offered by religion or spirituality are any deeper than those offered by logic and science?

That science can't (yet) explain everything we observe, isn't a failure of science.

In my opinion, it's the other way round. We need to believe in some lie to justify the rules of our culture. Why is killing for personal gain bad? No salvation or bad karma? These are just our ways of explaining the basic fact that a society which choose this rule will be more successful than one which does not.

Edit: not just explaining them, but giving people an incentive to follow otherwise seemingly aribtrary rules (killing might be very obvious, but others, like monogamy, are more subtle)


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


Edited by muhurgle (12/16/03 10:04 PM)


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: muhurgle]
    #2184290 - 12/17/03 01:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think that "believing" in a myth and believing in a scientific truth are no different because you are only believing in these things. Knowing them on a deeper level through experience is different altogether. One believes in ideas, but experiences reality. The idea that God exists and the idea that God does not exist are both simple constructions of the human mind, and neither bare much weight in the realm of absolutes which is not quantifiable or describable by langauge or abstract thought.

Religion can provide experiences that defy belief or constructed reality. Logic cannot, because by definition experience itself is outside of logic. Mysticism is an experience, science is an explanation. Regardless of which is logicaly correct experience is more essential than thought or logic itself.

BTW: with regards to science, there is definate possibility that there are some things that simply cannot be understood by science. Not because they are too complex for our methods, but because they do not operate in the logical framework of science as we have created. Science is man made. Without a person to be scientific or rational there is no science or rationality. It is a way of attempting to understand the Universe, but there are some profound things that by definition are not understandable (like the origin of consciousness for example). Spirituality shows us these things, science does not.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Edited by Divided_Sky (12/17/03 01:50 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2184304 - 12/17/03 01:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RydawgSupreme said:
I was mainly considering Mormonism when I put that timeline down. I believe that Mormonism is the most correct and uncontradictional form of christianity that is available today....... I do not expect aliens to ever contact humans. 




Isn't the beliefs of Mormonism based on a recently written book claimed to be handed down from supernatural beings, or something? Jesus floating around in Utah?

Nowadays we lock people up to claim to have seen Jesus like that, especially when they were cast out from society. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineeve69
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2186619 - 12/17/03 11:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RydawgSupreme said:
I think if all the religion stories turn out to not be true, and God and Jesus never do come back to earth, then one day religion will become a thing of the past.




For good or evil I hope the powers that created us decide we're ok and let us just be. I would hate to have the experiment wiped.


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...or something







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Anonymous

Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2186651 - 12/18/03 12:12 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

after you have one of these, you understand everything :laugh:
www.near-death.com www.iands.org its like each religion isnt right or wrong, they each have their own truths and fuck ups in them, to choose 1 religion and try and follow it is just foolish, but whatever keeps you close to him :wink:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: A thought on religion [Re: Druginduced]
    #2186770 - 12/18/03 01:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Tonight Bill Maher said "God doesn't need an agent." on Larry King Live.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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