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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Registered: 08/20/03
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Christianity makes no sense.
    #2237777 - 01/12/04 09:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Even if God created earth, he had to come about somehow and I don't think it's possible to create yourself before you even exist... so right there you gotta be thinking something's not right. Also, if he knows and sees all then he also would have to know the future and already knows everything that's going to happen before it happens. So he would have know everything about earth and everything that happens on it and everything that will happen. So why bother with anything if you know what's going to happen? To him wouldn't it be like it already happened? And if he can see the future does that prevent him from changing it or is he a slave to his own knowledge?


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2237822 - 01/12/04 10:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So, if there is no God, where did the universe come from? Did it create itself out of nothing, or has it always existed in some form?

You're just moving the problem from "God" to "the universe".

Omnipotence and sin is a problem for the Christians though (well.. "God works in mysterious ways", so not really).


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: muhurgle]
    #2237849 - 01/12/04 10:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What? No. That didn't really tell me anything.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2237876 - 01/12/04 10:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The christian version of how the universe itself came to be isn't really any more self contradictory than any other attempt at explaining it (talking about the universe, not the rest of "creation").

If you want to point out absurdity in christianity, then go with your other point.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: muhurgle]
    #2237917 - 01/12/04 10:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The error is in believing that the universe exists independently of ourselves.


--------------------


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Ped]
    #2237919 - 01/12/04 10:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

independatly of ourselves?


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Offlinescarywindow
(see theair)(feel thesky)

Registered: 06/26/02
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2238055 - 01/13/04 12:13 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Either way you go, the 'big bang' or creation by God -
you still have to put faith in one of them, as neither can be proven or disproven.
Scientists have tried over and over to debunk God, or to disprove his(it's) existe nce, and ended up turning Christian themselves. Any way you go, creation is evident. It's just a matter of what you've experienced and know, and where your faith lies in regards to how we were created.


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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: scarywindow]
    #2238102 - 01/13/04 12:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Scientists have tried over and over to debunk God, or to disprove his(it's) existe nce, and ended up turning Christian themselves.

Highly misleading and inaccurate:

1. Most scientists do not try to debunk / disprove God. It is NOT a testable theory.

2. Some scientists may have become Christian, but NOT as a result of testing anything.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2238131 - 01/13/04 12:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you, but it's not just Christianity that makes no sense, it's monotheism in general. Here's why. The universe had to come from somewhere. You can explain the origin of the universe by a Big Bang, but then what existed before that? Assuming that something doesn't come from nothing, the only likely explanation is that the universe always existed, and either linear time is an illusion, or time is a substance that is much more complex than we understand and we only perceive it as linear from our three dimensional perspective. Also, time is a result of the universe, not the other way around. Think about that for a minute. If the universe isn't a result of time, that means it could not have been created at any point in time. This removes the need for any outside force to have created it.


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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Swami]
    #2238133 - 01/13/04 12:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: ]
    #2238142 - 01/13/04 12:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2238167 - 01/13/04 01:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think what he is trying to say is that when we try to seperate ourselves we make it look as if we are below something, that something must be above in response, therefore making the whole god problem.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: scarywindow]
    #2238196 - 01/13/04 01:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

God exists. We are like experiments in a jar. We have no understanding nor capacity for understanding what is beyond that jar. We can spin our wheels philosophising about it all we want, but we will never know it until we die and get out of the jar.

That's how God set it up. We aren't supposed to know these things, and we are missing pieces of the puzzle that we cannot possibly conjure up through feverish thinking.

The knowledge of these mysteries simply does not exist for us in the dimension in which we live.

So go smoke a bowl, be nice to your neighbors, pet your cat, pursue a hobby, be a good lil' human, make God proud, and smile and wait 'till you die to get all the answers like everyone else has to.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: ]
    #2238198 - 01/13/04 01:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What exnihilating are you referring to? I said in my post that something doesn't come from nothing.


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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2238201 - 01/13/04 01:29 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Shut the fuck up and do as you're told." - Pope John Paul





Oh wait, I think it was someone else who said that.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2238204 - 01/13/04 01:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The bottom line is we DONT know anything about our existence. I think beliefes and logic need to find a balance in order to get anywhere, though it still may be impossible. This is the most difficul topic that exists in our lives. When people become narrow minded and ignorant to other ideas we just keep back tracking.

I think religions like Christianity are just an easy way out of explaining why we are here. Sure it's nice to believe in something if it makes you happy, but when your believes interfier with other humans it gets nasty. Such as creating most of the wars and conflicts in this world.

I don't know, but people should start being more accepting and realize that we don't know anything at all.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: barfightlard]
    #2238215 - 01/13/04 01:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bellylard said:
I think religions like Christianity are just an easy way out of explaining why we are here.




I'm a Christian.

I've been studying life, and God, and the Universe, for the last 2 years now. I observed for a couple of years before that. I've read quite a few books, engaged in way more than a few internet searches, had many, many discussions, and attended many bible studies. Trying to figure out why were are here.

I don't think it's been easy at all. I also don't think I've found the whole answer yet. Parts, but not all. I'll keep talking to people, and keep reading, and keep observing, and keep researching subjects, probably until I die.

I don't know how Christianity explains why we are here so easily. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Maybe I'm making it too hard on myself.

Please, direct me to where it says, in Christianity, I can easily find the answer to why I'm here.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: ]
    #2238219 - 01/13/04 01:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

"Shut the fuck up and do as you're told."




I don't think that's God's idea.

I think God's plan is to see how you live as an unknowledgable imbecile.

Put us in a place where we can live as regular people instead of all-knowledgable, all-wise beings that never fuck up, never make a mistake.

Then he can see what we are truly made of, how we deal with others, what happens when we are disappointed, what we do when we are scared, lonely, angry.

And how we act when overjoyed, when excited, when we overcome an obsticle.

If we knew all the mysteries of the universe, we would be constantly distracted from everyday life, and these goals would be impossible to achieve.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: ]
    #2238220 - 01/13/04 01:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Christianity makes no sense. [Re: ]
    #2238230 - 01/13/04 01:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

out of nothingness due to a quantum fluctuation

contradiction


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