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OfflineSyle
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Christianity = Faith of the Lazy
    #5807819 - 06/30/06 11:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, before anyone gets pissed off, let me explain :smile:

I want to talk about christianity only (even though some of my points may or may not pertain to other organized religions) because it's the biggest mainstream religion (in america anyhow). Also, I am not meaning to offend anyone whatsoever. And by all means, please, any christians, shut me up if you want...

...anyways, basically I see Christianity as a quick fix for most people. A get out of jail free card if you will.

Some people are brought up in a christian household and never have the opportunity to explore themselves and their own minds. Others merely pick up the bible and say, yeah, this sounds pretty good. Or others experience "a miracle" (such as surviving a car crash or waking up from a coma) and contribute that to jesus watching over them.

Okay, I am being a bit theatrical here, I know, but you get my point.

Where is the self discovery in christianity? Where is the work put in to discover who you really are? You slave your life in a church and constantly worrying about doing the "right" thing. Here is a thought, just be human. You are meant to be a human, that is why you were born as one. Don't try to change yourself into something you aren't. You error because that is in your nature. You have sex because you are meant to reproduce. You fight/kill because life is about survival of the fittest, pure and simple. Stop holding yourself up on a pedastal as some divine creature put here on earth as the center of all things. You aren't. We will all pass away into the void, much as the way we felt before birth.

Okay, let me get off my pedastal now...*clambers down in a frantic scurry*

What I am trying to say here is: explore. Figure out who you are. Try denying your god and your jesus. Tell them that this is your life, and they can't have it.


  /end ramble


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5807826 - 06/30/06 11:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

You're referring to exoteric Christianity, not esoteric Christianity.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Basilides]
    #5807831 - 06/30/06 11:32 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Still, how do people get anything out of christianity when so little personal worth is used to really delve into their religion?

And don't tell me stuff like: they go to church, they pray, they do fundraisers. Almost every christian I know is one because their family is. Doesn't that seem unfair to anyone?


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5807855 - 06/30/06 11:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It's sad really...the people that never get a chance.  :sad:  Faith is a cruel tool. People need to experience things firsthand. They need to question everything and analyze the evidence. For a religion to say "shut the hell up and believe because you're supposed to" is just not right. Or they put the guilt trip on you and tell you that if you don't just believe without a doubt then you won't be saved. Blind obedience is the only way for a lot of religions.

To me it makes the most sense to step back from all the biases and just experience the truth. Don't believe anything that you read or hear, just go and find out for yourself if it is real or not. :wink:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5807867 - 06/30/06 11:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

All faith is for the lazy. Spiritual belief should be based on personal experience.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5807869 - 06/30/06 11:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly :cool:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5807901 - 07/01/06 12:19 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
All faith is for the lazy. Spiritual belief should be based on personal experience.




Damn, wish I wasn't so long winded. Could have summed it all up with what you said there  :smile:


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5807926 - 07/01/06 12:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Dogma is to the soul what fast food is to the body, it may satiate but it tends to lead to the impediment of flow to the vital organs, particularly the brain, and can cause constipation.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


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InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Trepiodos]
    #5807941 - 07/01/06 12:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent analogy Trepiodos! :rofl:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5808602 - 07/01/06 03:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't just choose Christianity out of laziness. It found me. When you've had a direct experience of Christ's presence, it's hard not to find faith. I don't categorically accept the Church's teachings or Biblical infallibility. I have faith through experience. I cannot "just be human" when I've been given gnosis, because I have seen that our true nature is spirit, not body. Finding God is an indescribable experience, and I hope you can experience it one day, too. Not because I think you're going to hell or any bullshit like that. But simply because once you experience it, you will understand.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Silversoul]
    #5808698 - 07/01/06 03:57 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

People produce meaning for themselves, and experience that meaning. Are you in a position to propose that your meaning is more correct and real than their meaning?

I don't really know how else to address your self-described ramble, as it seems to be you responding to abstract concepts that you have created for yourself... I know not these Christians you refer to or their nature, and wonder that, if these are actual people, if your assumptions as to their nature and their experience are reflective of the reality of the matter.

Its almost as if you are addressing some aspect of yourself, some identity that you have formed, whether or not you consider that identity to represent "you" or an identity that you respond to.. either way, the identity is you.

You seem to be quite imaginative. :tongue:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5808727 - 07/01/06 04:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It's not that faith is bad, it's just that it doesn't really quite come out of a book. That could help you to experience it, but it is still up to you to experience it. With spiritual effort comes a great well of faith and devotion for the divine.


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InvisibleSoY
I am the LizardKing
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: thatiAM]
    #5808769 - 07/01/06 04:17 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Faith put anywhere but in your own experiences is misplaced.... :shake:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflineSketchyTX05
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Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Basilides]
    #5809163 - 07/01/06 10:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
You're referring to exoteric Christianity, not esoteric Christianity.




I hope you looked at this post a little deeper.


Exoteric Christianity could be summed down to the kind of Christian you are talking about for the most part. These people likely half-hazardly believe, but let's assume for our sakes that they go to church every week and go through all of the motions. These are the folk who go to church to scratch the itch of 'show,' and 'make-believe' when they can truly feel like they have done something good by going to church. It solidifies the basis of their "faith." But, on the days they aren't going to church, many of these kinds of believers (the exoteric-styled if you will) find themselves living their own lives and not paying much attention to God.

I stopped beleiving in God for about 3 years. I was an athiest, and I argued with me some Christians indeed. I won a lot of the time too. But, by the third year coming, God and Jesus happened to slap me in the face. It is absolutely undeniable in my world the work He has done. But then, that's my world.

This is where the Esoteric Christianity comes in. I see now that for the first 15 years of my life, I really WASN'T believing in anything, even though I thought I was. Now that I'm back in Christianity, I see how much of a deeper concept it is. It goes right to your spiritual wants, and focuses on the execution of your flesh (the ego). It talks about karma plenty (in different words and phrases), denying yourself of your earthly posessions, the kindness you should not only SHOW to people, but feel.

It discusses the great love you should display to all people, the bible wants you to FORGET earthly matters -- because the Earth isn't what matters. It's the spiritual ascention of your soul. And THAT is neat stuff. The Book of Life has changed me completely since God showed himself to me.

I think, for all of you who don't believe in God at all (and believe me, I remember what that is like. It was nice.. but I assure you HAVING one is far far greater), I challenge you to do this: If there IS a God, you would certainly want to know about Him; when you're by yourself, ask earnestly to the supposed creator to show Himself to you.


(I was challenged to do that very thing, and about three months after I did it I was finally shown beyond doubt, and then I submitted and it was the best thing I have ever done. Ever. I reccomend this experience highly. Nothing is greater than walking with God. Nothing!)


Edited by SketchyTX05 (07/01/06 10:25 AM)


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: SketchyTX05]
    #5809226 - 07/01/06 11:34 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Christianity is a language. Its a tool that you can pick up. If you get 10 people together and they're all talking the same language they transcend the individual experience and are enlightened?

I choose to enlighten myself, but its a tough pill to swallow


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: SketchyTX05]
    #5809227 - 07/01/06 11:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SketchyTX05 said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
You're referring to exoteric Christianity, not esoteric Christianity.




I hope you looked at this post a little deeper.


Exoteric Christianity could be summed down to the kind of Christian you are talking about for the most part. These people likely half-hazardly believe, but let's assume for our sakes that they go to church every week and go through all of the motions. These are the folk who go to church to scratch the itch of 'show,' and 'make-believe' when they can truly feel like they have done something good by going to church. It solidifies the basis of their "faith." But, on the days they aren't going to church, many of these kinds of believers (the exoteric-styled if you will) find themselves living their own lives and not paying much attention to God.

I stopped beleiving in God for about 3 years. I was an athiest, and I argued with me some Christians indeed. I won a lot of the time too. But, by the third year coming, God and Jesus happened to slap me in the face. It is absolutely undeniable in my world the work He has done. But then, that's my world.

This is where the Esoteric Christianity comes in. I see now that for the first 15 years of my life, I really WASN'T believing in anything, even though I thought I was. Now that I'm back in Christianity, I see how much of a deeper concept it is. It goes right to your spiritual wants, and focuses on the execution of your flesh (the ego). It talks about karma plenty (in different words and phrases), denying yourself of your earthly posessions, the kindness you should not only SHOW to people, but feel.

It discusses the great love you should display to all people, the bible wants you to FORGET earthly matters -- because the Earth isn't what matters. It's the spiritual ascention of your soul. And THAT is neat stuff. The Book of Life has changed me completely since God showed himself to me.

I think, for all of you who don't believe in God at all (and believe me, I remember what that is like. It was nice.. but I assure you HAVING one is far far greater), I challenge you to do this: If there IS a God, you would certainly want to know about Him; when you're by yourself, ask earnestly to the supposed creator to show Himself to you.


(I was challenged to do that very thing, and about three months after I did it I was finally shown beyond doubt, and then I submitted and it was the best thing I have ever done. Ever. I reccomend this experience highly. Nothing is greater than walking with God. Nothing!)




Him? How do you know God is a male?

It's stuff like this that makes me suspicious of christianity. There is too much random writing and too much room for personal input from random people millenia ago when the bible was written.

I actually DO believe in a higher power, but the only way I can describe it is that it's just the purest form of energy that can exist, and it connects everything in this universe together. The concept of a God is not tangible for our minds to comprehend, and much more complex and vast than a silly book written can even begin to describe.


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5809236 - 07/01/06 11:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I actually DO believe in a higher power, but the only way I can describe it is that it's just the purest form of energy that can exist, and it connects everything in this universe together.




:thumbup:  I agree, though I do not necessarily see this power as "higher," since it is not above or beyond this experience.  What makes the most sense to me is that the connective, cooperative energy that comes together to create material reality is Love.  Not romantic love, not attachment love, not needy love, but the unconditional flow of unifying energy.  :heart:

To personify this as a vengeful, controlling, demanding father figure is very human, and very mistaken (IMO).  Perhaps we imagine Love is like the love we got from our parents?


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Veritas]
    #5809237 - 07/01/06 11:45 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I actually DO believe in a higher power, but the only way I can describe it is that it's just the purest form of energy that can exist, and it connects everything in this universe together.




:thumbup:  I agree, though I do not necessarily see this power as "higher," since it is not above or beyond this experience.  What makes the most sense to me is that the connective, cooperative energy that comes together to create material reality is Love.  Not romantic love, not attachment love, not needy love, but the unconditional flow of unifying energy.  :heart:

To personify this as a vengeful, controlling, demanding father figure is very human, and very mistaken (IMO).  Perhaps we imagine Love is like the love we got from our parents?




I completely agree with you there. Why is God personified as a human like figure? With human emotions at times? Is this not the most selfish thing that can be done? Who are we to assume that the universal creator is in any way at all like us?


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5809267 - 07/01/06 12:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps to make the concept more "bite-sized"? Just as it is impossible for us to conceptualize infinity, it may be impossible to truly grasp the nature of Love (or Tao, or Universal Life Force).


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OfflineSketchyTX05
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Re: Christianity = Faith of the Lazy [Re: Syle]
    #5809393 - 07/01/06 12:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
Him? How do you know God is a male?

It's stuff like this that makes me suspicious of christianity. There is too much random writing and too much room for personal input from random people millenia ago when the bible was written.

I actually DO believe in a higher power, but the only way I can describe it is that it's just the purest form of energy that can exist, and it connects everything in this universe together. The concept of a God is not tangible for our minds to comprehend, and much more complex and vast than a silly book written can even begin to describe.





First of all, God is always refered to as "He" or "Him" in any biblical scrolls and text. But, also, you have to remember this: It's GOD. Not a human. He can't (though we refer to God as He/Him) be put into Male/Female categories like that. But, for the sake of convenience, we refer to God in that manner.


I can see that you are misunderstanding a lot of parts of Christianity. I'm not saying this to debunk your ideas on the world, but I certainly, above anything else, wish for you to not misrepresent Christianity in your mind. Please let this concept sink in: You're misunderstanding the most basic concepts!

For example: The bible was never meant to make us understand God. I agree with you -- no book can help us to anything like that. That isn't what the Bible is trying to do. The bible was NEVER meant to make us understand the entire concept. It's just pinning down the tangible parts so that we can apply it in some way to our life and believe in, not only the God of Abraham, but His Son as well.




_______________
The Old Testament (Before Jesus) showed us a lot about Gods personality and His power... but the old testament is mostly just a HUGE picture of what Jesus did. To be honest, the Old Testament isn't VERY important. It can't apply a whole lot to your life... (I wish SO badly you could see the value of this!)

The New Testament (Jesus and Post-Jesus) just shows us what Jesus did, and then the rest of it is a lot of letters from Paul showing us how to live a Christian life, and how much joy it is TO do just that. And, I can say for certain: I've had all the same inqueries as you did -- but once I saw God for myself and followed Jesus as His son, I have never been happier. It's the same for every other person who has been born again.
_______________




Besides, even aside from the spiritual part of the bible -- it's got a lot of cool stuff in it that we could relate to our lives and the things we've learned. A lot of us talk about these things here on the Forum -- or learn them when our egos are destroyed. The Bible can't JUST be looked at as this annoying christian Book about God, it can ALSO be looked at as, just like spiritual teachings in other parts of the world, a great guide for living and understanding.


Ecclesiates is what I'm talking about.



(Cycles)
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 Talks about different seasons for EVERYTHING.

(General Understanding)
Ecclesiastes 2:17-24 Everything you do in this life ends up going away. You are forgotten, and the people who would have remembered you will be forgotten. Everything here is pointless and ends up in the same place.

(Karma)
Ecclesiasties 11:1 Give your gifts generously, and they will come back to you

(Not Understanding God / Being Happy)
Ecclesiasties 3:9-13 People work hard, and we don't even know why we do it -- it's all for nothing. No one can see the entire scope of Gods work, so the best thing for people to do is to be happy and enjoy themselves as long as they can.



I wish you so well. I really do. God asks me (everyone) to love others... and if I sit here and revive the concept, I truly want you to understand these things because of my love for you. You could be a masterful influence, but you have to open yourself to the Light.


-Casey


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