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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: if you believe in god [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2889751 -

When you are a kid and you first begin driving and your parents tell you to be home at a certain time, you have the freedom to chose to come home or not. They trust you to make the right decision, they're not there to force you into it. "fucks" is not demeaning, it's my way to refer to anyone.. i'm a fuck .. you're a fuck.. that's a stupid way to to try and make my last post look uncredible... But if it makes you feel better, I'll refer to you as a fool k?

"Ahhh yes, science is just an excuse to not believe in ignorance. Knowledge certainly always tends to bring one away from ignorance, after all. I wonder why....."
Since I dont believe in science and logic...
I said nothing about science fool I was talking about evolution and the attempt at disproving god.

"Actually, I think it would be 100% ignorant to not face reality and strong evidence regarding evolution. At least it has some proof we can make sense of and understand."

since God makes no sense... right... it's too bad god is so hard to grasp and evolution answers all the questions except.. how the fuck did it all start?? I mean that thing exploded, but what was it doing there??



I wasn't refering to spirituality in the sense of buddha


"ugly" was in reference to 2Experimental


you have sucessfully..... done nothing to my last post...

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2889934 -

ld50negative1 said:
When you are a kid and you first begin driving and your parents tell you to be home at a certain time, you have the freedom to chose to come home or not. They trust you to make the right decision, they're not there to force you into it.


The difference here is that there isn't a set of parents here, entrusting us to make certain choices. Obviously, there are consequences of each choice and it is probably important to make the "right" choices in that regard, but as far as a parent figure instructing us to do this and this and this, we haven't seen that.

I definitely do not consider The Bible to represent the word of God on this matter, either. Your parents tell you by themselves to be home at this certain time. They do not have that message written down by others, have it filled with all sorts of other stuff, including a history lesson, and make the original message rather obscured and inaccesible. Obviously, if someone wants someone else to know what their will is, they clearly and consisely illustrate that will themselves.

Quote:
"fucks" is not demeaning, it's my way to refer to anyone.. i'm a fuck .. you're a fuck.. that's a stupid way to to try and make my last post look uncredible... But if it makes you feel better, I'll refer to you as a fool k?


I apologize if I made it appear that I was attempting to discredit your post by focusing on your calling us "fucks", as that clearly wasn't my intent (if I did, in fact, actually appear as if I did). Perhaps you should apologize for not considering how your words appear to others over a medium where we cannot judge the tone and intent of those words. We have instant smileys that properly assist in allowing one to know what context to take certain words and phrases. A wink (;)), a smile ( :smile:), a happy grin ( :laugh:), all of these would have done well to knowing you weren't flaming us.  :grin:

Quote:
Since I dont believe in science and logic...
I said nothing about science fool I was talking about evolution and the attempt at disproving god.


Yes, and evolution directly represents the nature and essence of science, in the way that the theory has been conceived, considered, investigated....

The theory of evolution's attempt at disproving God? I see absolutely no attempt made by a theory to disprove God. We don't even know "who" or "what" "God" is. How is forming a good explanation on how life has advanced and changed, and seemingly doing so accurately, disproving God? Maybe whatever aspect of "God" is being disproven by the theory of evolution doesn't face up to reality. Reality is real, after all.  After all.... isn't God real? :lol:

Quote:
since God makes no sense... right... it's too bad god is so hard to grasp and evolution answers all the questions except.. how the fuck did it all start?? I mean that thing exploded, but what was it doing there??


The concept of invisible aliens carrying around little feathers that they stick in our noses, which causes all the sneezings of humans, is a simple concept to understand and isn't so hard to grasp either. Obviously, the simplicity of a concept says nothing about whether or not it has any basis in reality.

As you just said, "evolution answers all the questions except...". Obviously, evolution is a theory that explains how life has advanced and changed and grown. Answering these other questions you propose is not in the theory of evolutions realm. The fact that one theory only designed to describe certain things is not able to explain other questions does not in any way discredit the questions that are in its jurisdiction and that it does, correctly, answer, as you admitted yourself.

These other questions are an entirely different matter, and in their own league. I think it is still important to keep in mind that making assumptions and beliefs without anything worthy to justify those beliefs with is rather ignornant. I don't assume there is someone out there, living in the country of China, who's sole intent is to kill me and only me, unless I have some good reason to think so.  :tongue:

Quote:
you have sucessfully..... done nothing to my last post...


Explain this one a little further, I don't understand what point you are trying to make or what message you are trying to get acrossed.  :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2889963 -

My proof that god exists is that the universe is here. I used to be unsure. That all changed when I took an astronomy class one semester. Whether evolution exist or not does not prove or disprove god. Evolution is possibly one of his plans. How the universe began and how it exists today is more fundamental. As far as our science can tell, the universe has a clear beginning. At that beginning there existed the highest amount of order possible(low entrophy). As the universe has evolved things become more and more disordered. There can be small instinces of order increasing, like when a star forms, but that order is far outweighed by the disorder created when the star releases energy throughout its lifetime.

It appears that the universe had a very ordered beginning and will continue to decrease in order into infinity. How did the universe begin in such a high state of order if there seems to be no process to get all the matter and energy in the universe back to that state? The only logical conclusion I can come up with is that there is a creator.

I'm sure that a lot of you hold the view that evolution disproves the idea that there is a god, so lets hear those arguments...

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2890009 -

you make lots of claims..ever think about them?

"God gave humans free choice and it was abused and still is"

that topic alone has been hotly debated here. what do you mean by we are abusing free will if it was "given" to us?

"It is 100% ignorant to try and reason with a process of creation (evolution) that its creator dismissed on his death bed. Do you not find it strange that a man dedicated most of his life to figuring out the process by which this world came into existence minus a creator and then just threw it all before he died. "

if you are implying darwin here, you are completely wrong on this one. Have you even read the origin of species? no where in this book by Darwin does it say anywhere that Man came from apes. Even though the entire theory of evolutions seems to suggest this, it is no where in his book. 

Nor does it speak of a lack of god.  It is just a theory about the process in how life evolved  while on this planet  with tons of support.  you should read it whenever you get the chance.  it might even make you appreciate the world around us just a little bit more :wink:

"I can't help but smile at all of you who won't believe who continually try to reach "spiritual" plateaus when I've reached the highest state of spiritualality through faith in christ"

you judge and then assume whatever it is you think we are trying achieve. we all have different reasons why we are here man. sure some similar to others, but we each got our own personal version :wink:

"because I've reached such a contmentment and comfort in my life that none of you could understand unless you share my faith"

well I'm no where near there man, I still need to do as much inner work as I can so I can better myself day by day. glad you have it all figured out! 

" And I really don't care how bad I get flamed for speaking out or for being "ignorant" to say I know the truth... "


ok you might want to read  here

it partly says this below:
Welcome to the Spirituality and Philosophy forum!
A place where you may express your deepest thoughts within an open community of diverse individuals.
While you post in this forum we ask that you abide by a few simple rules in order to promote the general peace.

1)No Flaming
2)No Baiting
3)Be Respectful
4)Come with an open mind

"But believe what you want you fucks, it's your decision. After typing all that I'm done for the day. Flame away."

pssst no flaming!!!!!!  :grin:

welcome btw!!!!! :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2890157 -

the catholic church, in 1998, accepted the theory of evolution as an explanation for the diversity on the planet.


just thought that was interesting.

:coffee:

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: kaiowas]
    #2890176 -

Hmm, interesting discussion board.
Let me see here.
Everyone has the ability to create theor own relaity, to be transcendental in everyday life. Whether we pray to the God, Allah, Buddah, the goddess(s), or any other significant figure..everyone is all getting off the same way. Through "faith" you develop a trust. Faith in a friend, faith that the drugs you are getting from this kid are "OSHA-approved", faith in relationships, and most importantly...faith in self.
Faith equals trust, in my eyes. And this is what I have created for myself.

As far as :

"I can't help but smile at all of you who won't believe who continually try to reach "spiritual" plateaus when I've reached the highest state of spiritualality through faith in christ"

...well. Everyone does find their own niche. I have friends devoted to monastaries who have achieved ultimate nirvana (of Self). I have Catholic friends who have devoted their lives to the Church and feel a complete comfort. I know many Pagans, for lack of better term, that experience the powers of the goddess(s) and gods.

There is absolutely no reason for you to think you are alone in your 'spiritual highs and achievements'.

quote:
"because I've reached such a contmentment and comfort in my life that none of you could understand unless you share my faith"

Everyone has the ability to create theor own reality, that is the 'beautiful mind', if you will. And I am quite positive that the people who share your faith are just as comfortable in their branch of religion and spirituality as you are.

The difference between you and I is that...I found my enlightenment on my own. I didnt need to look to the church, I saw too much corruption. Community is great, converting and pushing is sinful.

look to the stars...develop your cosmic consciousness...yet only if your reality allows you to do so :-)


--------------------
A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2890414 -

GNRM23
Quote:
but i will testify to the existence of spirit... spirit that blows through us all like the wind blows through the fields, spirit that holds us up like the ocean holds up the waves, spirit that feeds us as the earth transforms sunlight and soil and air into food, spirit that illuminates us as our sun lights the days, and as distant suns light the night


:thumbup:


SS7 said:
Quote:
There is no such thing as proof.


PROVE IT!

fireworks_god:
Quote:
We do not need to seperate ourselves from reality by making assumptions that are not ours to make. I think it is far more important to leave such areas completely open until some day comes when we will be in a position to have more information on the matter


well, alot of us have 'information' already and feel it is time to make an assumption.. if we wait for the 'right time' to decide, it could be too late... don't get me wrong I am not saying we must decide god exists or we go to hell, rather: I think it is important to embrace 'the truth' before we die.. you have a very good view and I have learned many thing from what you say, so dan't take this the worng way :smile:




thanks everyone for the replies I read them all even if I did not reply

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2890426 -

Your response is a reflection of Existentialism in the main. Over and against the Existentialist 'belief,' is the Ontololgical - the belief in Ontos - Being. Just exactly how one comes to 'regard' Being determines the Way in which one conducts him/herself. That Way, in turn, can be described by the usual categories that go by the names of religions.

I believe that "God is Reality," but my belief does NOT agree that God is either existence or experience. These categories belong to the created human pole of an I-Thou relationship with Being, and Being is Uncreated - Eternal.

A compromise between the paradox of Existence and Being lies in the discipline of 'Existential-Ontological Phenomenology' which takes both perspectives into consideration. One's philosophy may tend toward one or the other end of the continuum, and the direction will manifest as a worldly or as a spiritual philosophy respectively. I remember in the late 60's in head shops in Greenwich Village, buttons that read "Essence Precedes Existence" and "Existence Precedes Essence." The first one has its theological parallel in 'The Creator Precedes Creation.' The latter statement has no theological parallel.

Lastly, in my experience, petionary prayer works, and further, it has worked in ways that were so particular to the complex request, that chance seems inconceivable. I have analyzed the mechanism with concepts a far-out as 'Backward Causation' with 'precognitive desire' for what is predestined to be, and with simple dialogue with God as Father-Mother (as Jesus taught). I have no cognitive explanation, but I have had miraculous results both large and small, so I endeavor to "pray without ceasing," as a Way of Being-in-the-world. My Existence is suffused with Essence.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2890534 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Lastly, in my experience, petionary prayer works, and further, it has worked in ways that were so particular to the complex request, that chance seems inconceivable.


Might I request a specific example? You know, curiousity and all.  :grin:

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2890584 -

I appreciate curiosity, and I am not hedging here, but said events are regarded by me with an intimacy that I can only refer to as Holy. As such, I cannot put it out there in a public forum. It is one thing to admit of my beliefs (or 'witness' as mainstream Christians say) which, while personal and subject to potential attack, is OK with me. But...the details of THIS species of experience is more sensitive than describing sexual relations with my Lady. I only share this knowledge verbally, and hence personally, since it is pre-eminently personal. Peace.

P.S. - Please don't ask me about sexual relations with m'Lady. Thanks. :smile:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2890596 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
P.S. - Please don't ask me about sexual relations with m'Lady. Thanks. :smile:


'sall good, and I won't. heh.  :blush:

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2890839 -

I've stopped reading because your replies have become stupid now!

Your about as spiritual as my :ass:

Fireworks u da man  :lol:


--------------------

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2890890 -

I think you've got this situation under control, Brandon.. :thumbup: *moves along*  :wink:

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2891202 -

The word God has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. This misuse gives rise to absurd beliefs, assertations, and egoic delusions, such as "My or our God is the only true God, and your God is false," et cetera. Hence, I simply ostracise the majority of people's beliefs of God, because it has been my general observation over time that the common-minded folks of Euro-westernized/Christian-influenced societies are uncognizant or ignorant of what lies beyond their familiar spheres of programming.

For example, I have asked in discussions of pontifications; "What about the other religions and dogmas derived from other realms of the world? If even the almighty religion of Christianity lacks just as much concrete evidence and proof to support and backup it's own stories and beliefs as any other religion--no matter how 'silly' biased and subjective Christians may deem such religions--then what makes your belief in God any more real, valid, or worthier than any other religion?" Usually, I get responses ranging from blank stares to fumbling, contradictive and desperate rationalizations, explanations, or such.

In ancient Greece, people believed in multiple Gods.. Poseidon, who controlled the Sea and all of it's storms. In the absence of facts and factual knowledge, how else could they explain the cause behind such frightening and unfamiliar storms of the great sea? Zeus, who would throw lightning bolts and such when angered. Definitely a typical and normal type of assertation and judgment of a primitive-minded individual. Children also have the tendency to make the same type of imaginative explanations as to why things occur that they have no factual knowledge of. What do children and those who lived in the ancient, pre-science eras of time have in common? You can figure that one out for yourself.

Other primitive cultures in the past have looked at the Sun and Moon as Gods... Another belief created from the seemingly natural resistance to think in a vacuum, which of course, most people do not do.

In the middle east, many Islamics worship a peice of an asteroid that flew down from earth, ages ago..which still exists to this day, and believe that it came from a God they refer to as "Allah".

And there's another religion that believed a God created all that existed, and created a man and a woman named Adam and Eve, and lived in a perfect life until a snake came along and persuaded Eve to eat an apple that was apparently forbidden to consume, and ever since.. all humans have been born in 'sin'.

What is also worth noting is that all of the religions with figures that are worshipped to and such, all have characters that are undoubtedly reflections of the actual author/authoritive human being's personality and character. "God" does not believe that all gay people should be burned in "Hell" forever, that is entirely an individual(s) perception and belief. Zeus's character in appearance is obviously reflected accurately well in the Greek's own cultural fashions, and only in the Greek culture.
The list goes on.. the point is.. all deities are all created with attributes and characteristics deriving from the specific regional psyche from which it was created.

When I truly look at all the overall picture of the "Gods" and religions that have been created in this world, in all of it's history.. It's an undeniable realization that quite frankly, nobody really KNOWS what is 'going on' and all anybody can do is simply make their best assumptions, and that's exactly what has already been 'going on' for the past centuries of human existence.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2891366 -

...chasm-jumping...

You know I get $0.05 royalty every time you use that phrase. Please remit a check ASAP...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2891376 -

But believe what you want you fucks...

As always, the true spiritual nature of a being cannot be disguised.

"It is not what you put into your mouth that will be your undoing, but what comes out of it."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2891441 -

I too have personal experience that causes me to believe in God and the spirit in general, but to detail it here so it can be torn down is nowhere. Suffice it to say that to those who don't believe, God is irrelevant. To those who do believe it is most relevant.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: Swami]
    #2891509 -

Swami said:
"It is not what you put into your mouth that will be your undoing, but what comes out of it."


I heard a preacher say that on TV when talking about homsexuals... it makes more sense in this context.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2891528 -

P.S. - Please don't ask me about sexual relations with m'Lady. Thanks.

Dang! Nice pre-emptive strike.  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: if you believe in god [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2892280 -

I thought the whole idea was to believe without being shown.... this helps turn people into sheep very effectively, or perhaps sends people to hell very effectively?  :cool:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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