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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #713685 - 06/30/02 06:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

That Eternal Damnation thing is what scares the hell out of me. Are you sure its not FOREVER? I sure hope im not damned. Why would god knowlingly create someone giving them free will and then damn them for all eternity where is his mercy?


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Anonymous

Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: chodamunky]
    #713718 - 06/30/02 07:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Love God? Why should God/dess care if we live or die?
I respect the Things I do not understand.
And manipulate the Energies I am aware of.
Worship is for Sheep.
-OoD


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OfflineRowan
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Anonymous]
    #713808 - 06/30/02 07:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

ok, my quote: "you have to consider the possibility God does not like you, he never wanted you, in all probability: he hates you. This is not the worst thing that could happen. We don't need him. Fuck damnation, Fuck redemption. We are God's unwanted children? So be it." Tyler in Fight Club.
When I was a child, I needed Santa Claus. As a teenager I needed Jesus. As an adult, I need to take responsibility for my life and the consequences of my actions. I am god of my life, my existence.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #713815 - 06/30/02 07:54 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

That determinism that relegates some to Life and some to shame, begins with the 12th chapter of the Book of Daniel. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." It is the writer of the Gospel According to Matthew, who the world can 'thank' for bringing the apocalyptic visions of Daniel to the New Testament. Without Matthew's agenda, there would be no 'Hell fire and brimstone' preaching that has characterized so much of Christendom.

It is NOT so much that God, like the Egyptian Judge of the Dead, weighs our hearts against a feather, and casts those with heavy heart to Maat, a demon of death. That Light which is God, burns like Hell-fire to those who have not become transmuted into Love - into Christ. Only Love 'gets into' Heaven/God, all else is annihilated. Incinerated, so to speak. Hence the urgency by which Christ admonishes us to love - to become loving. To the extent that we are identified in our essence with Love, God is Heaven. To the extent that we remain selfish>criminal>perverse, we 'burn in Hell,' just like movie vampyrs burn in the light of day or from holy water. So, it is not so much as what God does to us as it is what we choose to Be in this life. A perfectly clean lens focuses and passes a high power laser beam without harm. A dirty or greasy lens provides the resistance to that powerful light and is destroyed. We need to become 'clean lenses' to avoid Hell. We need to allow the Light to pass through us so that we become scarcely different from that Light. The Way is known - given by God in His mercy. We have a reponsibility to be 'fit' for 'The Kingdom of God,' and understand some of these metaphysics. Buddhists understand their metaphysics and don't expect the karmic laws of cause and effect to change for them (such ego!) . Bottom line: selfish assholes are not suited for selfless Love, which is the nature of God's Heaven.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #713819 - 06/30/02 07:59 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Why would god knowlingly create someone giving them free will and then damn them for all eternity where is his mercy?

Exactly...that sound very loving to you?

Yes, I am positive that that is what it says in the Bible (More importantly that is what I believe to be true in my heart)...if someone needs me to I can track down the passage, or at least try to.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineTripllcs
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: chodamunky]
    #713824 - 06/30/02 08:03 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

GOD, is one big cult which made it public
there isnt proof of god anywhere
it is all brainwash
believe what you want to believe but im not going to let someone hypnotize me
to worship someone who could very well not even exist.

WORSHIP ME or ill shall ban you tell hell.


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I smell like doo doo cause i am the shit.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Tripllcs]
    #713869 - 06/30/02 08:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

GOD, is one big cult which made it public, there isnt proof of god anywhere, it is all brainwash, believe what you want to believe but im not going to let someone hypnotize me to worship someone who could very well not even exist.

There isn't the same type of proof that is presented in court cases, no. IMO there is ONLY personal revelation, proof on a personal level. Some people have asked for proof of God and do not feel satisfied with the answer they got, I have my theories on why that is but those theories DON'T include the person asking being evil or not asking with their heart, etc.

I can tell you this to, my interpretation of "who" God is doesn't include an insecure God, a God that demands worship or else.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Edited by Shroomalicious (06/30/02 08:19 PM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Rowan]
    #714485 - 06/30/02 11:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Worship is for Sheep.

You can love God, without being mindless, IMO.

When I was a child, I needed Santa Claus. As a teenager I needed Jesus. As an adult, I need to take responsibility for my life and the consequences of my actions. I am god of my life, my existence.

I don't agree with most people on their beliefs about God, (but that's okay, I don't need to in order to respect them) I don't agree with Christians who say they only accomplised such and such a thing because of God. And every failure was just God's will. They have their right to their opinion, and it is no better than mine...but that doesn't mean I share that belief. I can say this, just because you believe in and love God doesn't mean you don't except consequeces for your actions. As I have said in my "Why would God let this happen" post, I don't believe God meddles in Earth/Human affair much at all. If I underachieve, it's because of me. If I over succeed, it's because of me (or my friends who supported me). I think that is God's intentions. If God wanted to do everything for us, then why are we even here?

However, for me it is nice to know that God is there. Although he lets us do things for ourselves its nice to know where I am going and where I have been and why I am here, etc.

Once again, it's all my opinion.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Offlineexsane
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #714597 - 07/01/02 12:09 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Ah the G word. The placeholder everyone likes to use for that part of life we don't understand. What's all of this questioning about God's existence? Who is this God that all of the major religions stress there being just one sovereign. sovereign over what? How about Sovereign over Him/It/Herself. I resolved myself to the existence of God with this train of thought. It is generally believed, and my belief as well that there is one God, and who is sovereign to Humanity and to whom we must bend to and worship. I found something else that has the same characteristics: Reality. Just 1 Reality. Which is simply Reality.
So God = Reality. God is not a reality. Reality is God. So I haven't really proved the existence of anything. Just redefined a term in my Mind's model of reality.
Kind of like yelling for the movie to come into focus only to realize your glasses are off. I didn't even know I needed glasses.
Of course you can put on glasses with a color-tints and live in mechanical worlds, or poetic worlds, or organic worlds. Reality simply is. Getting hung up on your particular model of reality is simply vanity. And can lead to unforeseen complications.
Of course these are just my attempts to hit close to the mark, to the other meaning I think can be derived of God. God as that invisible objective Standard we strive for. That truth, that exists apart from our minds emotional manifestations. That standard of rightness we seem to desire so strongly to stand on, either in poetic terms or logical or whatever. Justice apart from our ego's wishes as to how it ought to be or fears as to how it might be, depending on what sort of fuel your running on.

bah, please pick my ideas apart so I can explain myself more clearly. Thank you.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #714615 - 07/01/02 12:19 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Markos, a lot of what you are saying sounds like we are simply discussing concience. As if when you bring harm to someone, it is your own mind that will not let you rest peacefully. The only problem is that many people transgress widely held morals and ethics with no remorse whatsoever. They never suffer any consiquence for thier actions unless you imagine that they are somehow punished after death and when you really think about this, it makes no sense at all. I think that this is important when considering if we should accept the traditional god into our lives.


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:egyptian:


Edited by Catalysis (07/01/02 12:40 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Catalysis]
    #714963 - 07/01/02 06:14 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I am not discussing the psychology of conscience. I'm a clinician, and what's more, I was once married to a woman with more than a tad of antisocial personality disorder. The most severe sociopaths do not seem to evidence conscience or remorse at all. They are as materialistic as a human can be - relegating other humans as objects to be used and manipulated, or killed for one's pleasure or gain. Ther is zero empathy; only a sense of being a separate ego whose desires are all that matter, at anyone's expense. Such people are a living hell. They don't even realize that that they ARE a walking nightmare, but then, the same is said in several traditions about those in [metaphysical] Hell. I once watched a Nova special on schizophrenia. They profiled one woman in particular, and at the very end of the show, asked her if she'd ever heard of schizophrenia. She said she knew someone in her institution who had that, and she sure hoped it never happened to her! The next life is a continuation of the psychospiritual life we live on Earth, purified of the material body and material plane. The Gnostics called 'Heaven' the 'Pleroma' - The Fullness [of Being].


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: exsane]
    #714968 - 07/01/02 06:17 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I came to the exact, simple formulation some time ago: God=Reality. I would expand that to a corollary: Truth=Reality, and thus, the three are equivalent.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #714976 - 07/01/02 06:23 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I came to the exact, simple formulation some time ago: God=Reality. I would expand that to a corollary: Truth=Reality, and thus, the three are equivalent.

And the funny thing about it: you make your own reality.


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its all placebo


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Offlineexsane
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: Divine_Madness]
    #715142 - 07/01/02 08:07 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

I came to the exact, simple formulation some time ago: God=Reality. I would expand that to a corollary: Truth=Reality, and thus, the three are equivalent.

And the funny thing about it: you make your own reality.




Heh, and so we come full circle, and we see we're chasing our tails.

I read a story that I think is pretty funny.

Once there was a fish that was swimming in a great big ocean. And because it was all around him and because it always sneakily got out of the way of his nose as he swam through it, he had no idea he was in water. Then one day he looked down and saw the dark black abyss below him. He was terrified that he might fall into it, and felt very dizzy. To keep himself afloat he bent back and tried to bite his tail. But his back wasn't quite supple enough so he couldn't get at and went around in terrified circles with that big dark abyss below him.
The Great Ocean taking pity on the fishy and slightly amused came suddenly spoke, and asked the fish what he was doing. "I don't want to fall in that terrible abyss." The Ocean explained to the fish that the ocean would always sustain him and there was no need to go around chasing his own end.

I couldn't find where the story was written. But I think the general point is still there.


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Invisiblemisterogerz

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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: chodamunky]
    #719642 - 07/03/02 08:27 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

here's my theory, although i dont believe in god, i do think there's a possibility of some supreme being, but not just one, because something would have had to create him or him evolve into what he is, which goes all the way back to the beginning of time, but something had to create time, but it would have to already exist in time to create it, so there's no explanation to conclude why or how we are here, because if something did create us, something had to create it or it's ancestors, and so on, and that would go all the way to the beginning of time, and i already explained about time, so it's impossible to EVER come to a conclusion on how we exist, by rational thinking, we shouldnt even be here, there should be just a whole lot of nothing, if that, because something always has to create something, so there's no way to explain anything but what we see happening

that's my theory


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:


Edited by misterogerz (07/03/02 08:28 AM)


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InvisibleGRTUD
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #721063 - 07/03/02 08:22 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Did you see what God just did?"

"God didn't do that. You did! Your a fuckin' narcotics agent!"


--------------------
"New shit has come to light..."


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Offlinegreypoe
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Re: why should we love God? (if He exists) [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #734653 - 07/09/02 07:27 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

My belief of Jesus is that he is all of us, and God gives us the dream.

God is indifferent

Jesus is the judge, because he was the girl
and the terrorist.


--------------------


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