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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Seuss]
    #1948183 - 09/24/03 04:01 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Um... so, we know then that there is something that we can damn ourselves to, then?

To be reborn and live again.  :smile:

 



damn it, I ain't gonna  be brought into existance again, not
without a fight :tongue:
no more existance for me...it's debilitating...  :rolleyes: 


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948192 - 09/24/03 04:07 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

> it's quite easy to doom ourselves too...

Ah, but lets add some perspective. What if heaven and hell coexist within our everyday life and reality. We have the option, through freewill, of enjoying the pure bliss of heaven or living the painful agonies of hell. Each time we give into our anger or hatred, we dip down into hell. When we share love and live life, we rise up into heaven. Death is not required for either.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Seuss]
    #1948197 - 09/24/03 04:09 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

there are more ways of entering Hell btw, which has nothing
to do with Good n Evil...Existential Angst and
Philosophy comes to mind :frown:


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948221 - 09/24/03 04:17 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

God does not despise any human, only the sin that they do. Hell is not a place of eternal torment, that is the Lake of Fire. Hell is a place where we are separated from God's presence until the Day of Judgement. As we are alive, all people are in the presence of God.
God created Hell and the Lake of Fire specifically for Satan and the angels who accompanied him is his rebellion. Satan knows his fate, so he wants to drag as many humans in with him.
Here's a little story:
There are 100 people on death row, murders and such. Well, the Warden has decided that he will all of the convicts that believe him. He told one convict to tell the others that they are free.
The convict goes from cell to cell telling others.
A jailer, jealous of the warden's power, started spreading lies about the warden and what he did. Because of this some believe the convict, others don't. The ones that don't try to figure another way out, digging out, hiding in the laundry basket, etc. They even tell others that everything is a lie, the warden said any such thing.
In the end, very few convicts were released, most chose to stay in the cell, waiting for death. The jailer was chained in a cell for obstructing the freedom of the convicts. The convicts who chose not to believe were killed.

This was the best story I could make up. The convicts had plenty of chances to believe and walk out, but many of them never did. They CHOSE not to believe, to not accept a free gift.
The jailer represents Satan, who wants as many humans as he can get to come with him.
I know many of you might tire of my proselytizing, but that is one of the ideas of my faith, to spread it to others. Thank you.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948240 - 09/24/03 04:23 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1948249 - 09/24/03 04:27 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1948259 - 09/24/03 04:31 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

What I meant was that God HATES sin, not the sinner. ALL people have the ability to accept or decline Christ. Even Christians will be rewarded in Heaven based on their works. Heaven is the main prize, but we will also obtain other things as well.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1948270 - 09/24/03 04:35 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1948287 - 09/24/03 04:40 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

In that term, "hate" means "love less."

Jesus himself said that we should "hate" our family. Not in a sense of actual hatred, but we should love Christ and God more than our family. God also gave Esau blessings as well.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1948313 - 09/24/03 04:49 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Enter said:
Quote:

Why would a creator give the ability to it's creation to
damn itself ?
If I were to design an arificially intelligent machine
would I give it the ability to torture itself eternally ?
wouldn't seem very compassionte of me... 






And what mankind does every day of existence is 'compassionate' to you?




I never said that...I give up :confused:
what I said is so simple: "would a compassionate God
create entities and give them the ability to torture themselves"
that does not seem compassionate to me.
this is not a new concept this is an age old debate.
Interesting that all religious people seem to deal with
this by evading the direct question.
In any case u answered the original question of the thread,
so I'm infering your answer is "No".


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948316 - 09/24/03 04:51 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

The answer "yes"
The compassionate God gave us the free will to choose what to do. An incompassionate God would have made us all robots instead, with no choice of what we do.
Is that a good answer?


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1948322 - 09/24/03 04:52 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Funguy said:
The answer "yes"
The compassionate God gave us the free will to choose what to do.  An incompassionate God would have made us all robots instead, with no choice of what we do.
Is that a good answer? 



It an answer, I have no reason to judge u :smile:
I wus jus curious what people thought... 


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948328 - 09/24/03 04:56 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

I don't know.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1948332 - 09/24/03 04:57 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Funguy said:
The answer "yes"
The compassionate God gave us the free will to choose what to do. An incompassionate God would have made us all robots instead, with no choice of what we do.
Is that a good answer?



btw, technically, free will is not an indicator of compassion. If u were created desireless and in ultimate bliss u would not ask
for free will - by definition u would be desireless...
If u mean God could have simply torutured us without any choice,
well that would seem like an insane God...from my current
perspective...


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948356 - 09/24/03 05:07 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

What I meant was that God gave us the ability to choose what we wanted to do. BTW, we were in ultimate bliss until Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (which Satan tempted them to do). "When they ate of the fruit, their eyes were opened, knowing good and evil." God told them not to, but he did not forcefully make them not eat it.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948378 - 09/24/03 05:16 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

"Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ?"

No. I think that's absurd


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1948440 - 09/24/03 05:32 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Enter said:
God literally hates some human beings. Literally. God literally hated Esau. There are other accounts in the Bible of God literally hating certain individuals. The word "hate" is literally used.




So, some book said that some idea of God hated some guy, so that is proof that God hates people? I'm sorry; the Bible has a lot of good ideas and all, but I don't see The Bible as some definite proof that everything contained within it is unquestionably valid.

Especially how the stories of old rulers back then get mixed up with God, and so forth....

Anyways.  There is a big difference in Karma and a judgemental God. Karma makes sense because every thought we have and every action we carry out has some sort of effect that produces consequences, good and bad.

I just can't believe in the idea of some being known as God judging us or being attached to his Creation. Hell, if God is so much more evolved and higher consciousness then us, He wouldn't have any attachment, anyways... :grin:

Hmm.. anyone got a spare watch? I just can't get over this dance.. :grin:
Peace.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineTao
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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1948600 - 09/24/03 06:14 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

Its always made the most sense to me that a higher power created this existence to serve as the ultimate form of 'entertainment' if you will. by creating intelligent beings with some parameters, lots of puzzles and a near-free will, it's like the ultimate soap opera, play, reality show, or whatever you want to call it, its the ultimate *thing* to observe. The question remains what does he do with these souls when they finish? What does a girl do with her dolls when she finishes playing with them for ever? does she put them into a case, separating her favorite ones from her less favorite ones? Or does she just move on, the dolls have had their time and now they are finished. I'm not going to say i know what happens to us when we are 'done' but, i find it an easy possibility that our time on life is what we have, to enjoy as much we can. Its more than possible that we create these ideas of what will happen to our 'souls' when we die to give ourselves hope that this ride will never end. but all things we see come to an end, why shouldnt this?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Tao]
    #1948628 - 09/24/03 06:18 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

"we create these ideas of what will happen to our 'souls' when we die to give ourselves hope that this ride will never end"
perspective is an amazing thing, I would gladly hop off this ride in a heartbeat :tongue:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1948651 - 09/24/03 06:23 PM (18 years, 25 days ago)

I've done my work Tao, it's time to step aside :grin:
just kidding :tongue:


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