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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist?
    #782732 - 07/28/02 08:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have been thinking about some of swami's post lately, and my own beliefs...

I used to be a hard core christian... but life sucked. Slowly, over time, I began to think that maybe God does exist and just doesn't care about us. Maybe he loved us, but didn't cared about what happened to us on earth?

But yesterday, I went to talk to my ex-girl friend. She was a very cool chick with lots of potential. I asked her if she wanted to go to Ozzfest with me. This launched her into an hour long about how she only listens to gospil music now, and only does "godlly" things. I almost said, why do you devout your life to a dead god? That was when I realized, I have lost all belief in god...

My life has been the same with and without faith....

I don't know anymore....


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #782774 - 07/28/02 09:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


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InvisibleAdom
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #782784 - 07/28/02 09:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Why does everyone associate this religion garbage with the existance of God?

Why must you look for a reason for faith?

Step back watch the flow.

God is rythm.

tap into it.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Adom]
    #782818 - 07/28/02 09:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

adom,
don't stop there, please elaborate.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Adom]
    #782835 - 07/28/02 09:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Why must a rhythm be an entity?

Why call it a force?

Why give it a name?

Why is it so much like humans?

Why accept that it's "greater" than oneself?

Why worship it?

Why talk down to others for not acknowledging it?

Why kill in it's name?

Why justify everything you do or do not do based on it's "teachings"?

Why can't you live without it?

Why must you believe in it?

Why not just focus on being... nay, becoming?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #782841 - 07/28/02 09:37 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well there you go, thanks Sclorch.


Edited by Adom (07/28/02 09:39 PM)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #782855 - 07/28/02 09:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Deleted by admin


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Anonymous

Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #782862 - 07/28/02 09:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

God died before my eyes on shrooms, slain by a society that looks for him too hard.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #782922 - 07/28/02 10:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I am willing to accept reality if reality is that Jesus is not the Lord or that there is no Lord. But I don't believe that.

So, you're NOT willing to accept it then are you?


Now, can you accept in the realm of possibility even, a God who chooses to create an identity for Himself?

Well, we have several assumptions here...
1. God is an active force.
2. God wants an identity (sort of redundant based on the assumption that a god exists- and a singular one at that).
3. God is male.

But YEAH, sure I'll accept the ever so slight possibility of a God who chooses to create an identity for Himself. I'm all about possibilities. That one just isn't friggin' likely. My most liberal probability estimate ranks it's truth value somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.00000000000000000001%. It might be less... I don't know for sure. Of course this was all run through a supercomputer, but I was using Windows XP, so it might have rounded up (damnit Microsoft!!).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #782956 - 07/28/02 10:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Enter,
I think its great that your Faith makes you stronger.
That said, I think its awfully naieve to think Jesus/Christanity is the One true Path. Just the way I think it is niave to think the sun will ALWAYS come up. I may not be here, but one day, it will go out.

Please do not hit me with a lot of scripture to support your beliefs. I have not assaulted you with mine.

Oh, and By the by, Christanity was culled from thosands of years of myth and legend that date back to the Dawn of Man. It survived not cause it was 'right' but because it was 'last'
In 10,000 - will anyone even know why that man was nailed to a 'T'?
-OoD (just stirin the proverbal shit pot)


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Registered: 07/10/99
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #783014 - 07/28/02 11:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Haha Thats great
Its the CYA principle. Cover Your Ass. Otherwise peoplewould just live and die, couldnt let that happen now could we?


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #783023 - 07/28/02 11:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Why not just focus on being... nay, becoming?

why focus on becoming? why not just focus on being? are you a masochist?


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---


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #783032 - 07/28/02 11:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

wow....

i was just thinking....

what a perfectly round fro Bob Ross has (had)...


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Amoeba665]
    #783048 - 07/29/02 12:00 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

why focus on becoming? why not just focus on being?
I guess the Nietzsche reference just slipped past you there, didn't it?

are you a masochist?
No, but it appears that I am a developing insomniac.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinewhy
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #783149 - 07/29/02 03:27 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You sound like Trent Reznor, "God is dead and no one cares. If there is a hell I'll see you there..."

how dare you talk about Trent Reznor like that. Trent Reznor *IS* God.

"I hurt myself today, to see if I still feel. I focus on the pain, the only thing that's real"

(Hurt - TDS)


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: why]
    #783187 - 07/29/02 04:15 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

funny you mention it, cuz yes, he is god... and so am i, and so are you... we ARE all god...
In reply to:

Why is it so much like humans?




why don?t you turn that question around, sclorch... why are humans so much like god? we were created in his image and likeness... but not physically, nor emotionally... but spiritually... we are the only livin entity that is able to CREATE its own experiences... through thought, word, and deed (holy trinity)...
oh! and oracle of delphi... yes... it is naive to think the sun will always come up... i believe in god, and there are many many days where the sun refuses to shine... but without those days we wouldnt be able to appreciate the days where all you can see is light... the greater the pain, the greater the joy... and god is the one to help me survive the days without sun... and i learn, through those days... actually this whole sun talk reminded me of a song... one of the most beautiful songs i know...

Change

I don't feel the suns coming out today
It's staying in, its gonna find another way
As I sit here in this misery I don't think I'll ever see the sun from here
And oh as I fade away, they'll all look at me and say,
Hey look at him I'll never live that way
But that's ok their just afraid to change

When you feel your life ain't worth living, you've got to stand up and
take a look around you then a look way up to the sky
And when your deepest thoughts are broken, keep on dreamin boy cause
when you stop dreamin its time to die
And as we all play parts of tomorrow
Some ways we'll work and other ways we'll play
But I know we can't all stay hhere forever
So I want to write my words on the face of today
.....And then they'll paint it

And oh as I fade away they'll all look at me and say,
hey look at him and where he is these days

When life is hard you have to change


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #783220 - 07/29/02 05:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

One of the main problems with "belief in God (gods)" is that the arguement presented is that you can not "prove" (its, His, their) existence.......

The trouble with this is that you are looking for a "spiritual being" with the five "physical" senses. It's not surprising that you don't find "it"......

When I get into my car, I don't attempt to "smell" my destination and therefore close my eyes.....I use my eyes and ears to pilot the vehicle.

If I'm looking for God, I don't rely on the five physical senses, I use my spiritual senses. People who have not "taken the leap of faith" from what they can see, hear, feel, smell, and taste get upset when they hear about God. They argue that you can't "prove" His existence and so stay in their comfort zone. If He doesn't exist, well then, I don't have to deal with Him or think outside of myself to consider how my actions and attitudes affect others. If God doesn't exist then I can rape and pillage the world and there are no consequences. I have no responsibility to anyone and can do whatever I want (be as selfish as I want to be).
If God does exist, then we are all connected and what I do and think affects others (....the spiritual senses again,can't be proved with logic or the five physical senses).

I don't have a problem believing in God and living my life to assist and serve others. I don't have a problem believing that life has a purpose and that I and everyone around me is a valuable person, also with purpose. But I can not prove this with the five physical senses. Looking around with just these breeds an environment of fear and mistrust. The world and its peoples look dark and without hope.

Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you ( the spiritual not physical senses).......

.........only believe.......

Tannis


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Anonymous

Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #783243 - 07/29/02 05:50 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

it takes just as much faith to live when you don't believe in god- faith that life is worth living, even though we die at the end of it.

when you stop blindly following other people and live the way you decide is best, that's something really special.

we are all different. we will all have to find our own answers.


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InvisiblePeaceful_Nomad
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: In(di)go]
    #783258 - 07/29/02 06:13 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Good point Lozt Soul...

There are many theological texts which attempt to explain the existance
of God. The Gospel of Thomas has been labeled as heresy by the
Catholics because it challanges one of the most powerful religions in the
world.

What is the basic perspective of the Gospel of Thomas?

It is that the Kingdom of God is spread out upon the earth now, if people can just come to see it; and that there is divine light within all people, a light that can enable them to see the Kingdom of God upon the earth. Further, the perspective of Thomas is that the Image of God in the beginning (Genesis chapter One) still exists and people can assume that identity, an identity that is neither male nor female. The image of God is differentiated from the fallen Adam of Genesis chapter Two. The Gospel of Thomas advocates that people should restore their identities as the image of God now, and see the Kingdom of God on earth now. Thomas reads the first two chapters of Genesis in a straightforward way, there were two separate creations of mankind; the first is perfect, the second flawed. Rather than waiting for a future end-time Kingdom to come, Thomas urges people to return to the perfect Kingdom conditions of Genesis chapter one. For Thomas Endzeit (the final culmination of things) already existed in the Urzeit (the primordial creative time of the past).

We live in a world full of light and dark energy (i.e. WTC 9/11 was an act of
dark energy [a/k/a evil or Satanic] and the heroic efforts of the rescuers was
an example of light energy [a/k/a love or God]. Furthermore, the recent news
reported of the rape and killing of those young girls is a prime example of darkness
or evil energy. Likewise, the recent rescue of the 9 miners in PA is an example of
a miracle perpetuated by light energy or God.

Religion and Faith are two different topics. The difference being that Faith comes
from within each individual and Religion is conceptualized by many.

If you take the word GOOD and drop an "O", you will actually SEE GOD. Hence,
God is whithin everything that is Good!

All in my humble opinion.

Peace to Everyone

Peaceful Nomad


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Offlinenezshoo
<--- SOMA

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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Peaceful_Nomad]
    #783308 - 07/29/02 06:46 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Heheh This thread reminds me of the Tool song "Hooker with a Penis" "If your the man, and he's the man and I'm the man. Then you can just stick that fucken finger up your ass!" Well, You get the point.

For worshipping god... jesus... blah blah blah... We are all gods! I will go in depth later on today.. Just my theory!


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #783547 - 07/29/02 09:16 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I thought I answered this question already; maybe it was in politics.

I must say, I have posted on the "invisible man" theory many times, but yet again, someone comes up with a different angle. And, damn, if all the "I love the invisible man","God is love", people just come POURING out of the woodwork.

There is no God. Get over it. Science is not perfect, it is based in REALITY; something one cannot say of God.

Just for kicks how about a rational refutation of this:


There are some people that believe, God is or could be, Love. If this is so then God's relationship with human beings is that of an ALL ENCOMPASSING love. As such those who have FAITH that God exists, that they love God and God loves them must question their relationship with God. In considering the realationship (with God) the person in question must ask ones self "is this a positive relationship; is this relationship harmful to me?".

The nature of RELIGION assures us that this is wrong, one must not question the relationship with God, one must have faith that God, and as an extension, his dogma, is infallable. To this end, religion, while purporting to be heralding the LOVE of GOD, brings about HATE. Hate of other religions, those who don't believe as "THEY" do and those who do not live as the particular dogma dictates. You have to look no further than your local law library to see how religion encompasses the very opposite of what God is purported to be. Religion's don't exist in love, they exist in HATE and conflict. Religion's, the world over, dictate the way a peson should live in obeisance of a certain God. There is no room for compromise, not when you are talking about religion; it's live "our" (whoever happens to be in power at the time) way or die.

This brings me to the next argument; RELIGION vs. GOD.
Invariably, when one discusses God or religion, the same arguments present themselves ad nauseum. One being, that God exists, the other being that god aka "the invisible man" does not exist. The second argument that surrounds the God vs. religion debate is which religion is praying to the RIGHT God? And, third, but MOST IMPORTANT, is the INDIVIDUAL relationship with God.

The mere act of believing or not is simplistic in nature but complex in makeing the decision to believe in God or not. Does God exist? Can I find any evidence of this being? Does the lack of evidence of existance, in itself, lend to the supposition that God does NOT exist? Or, does the lack of evidence of exitance lend itself to the supposition that God DOES exist? I can't answer this, not for anyone else anyway, the answer that FAITH is the answer is ludicrous. I have FAITH that the sun will rise tommorow, my faith is based on experience and science. but I am rational enough to know that a nuclear attack will make it irrelevant. Those who believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience, science cannot help them here. Those who do not believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience; science can't help them either. "My mother died; it was God's will" "My mother died; her heart stopped".

I'll skip the second argument; which religion is worshipping the correct God. It doesn't lend itself to this particular question of "Love vs. Hate and Religion vs. God". Besides, it would take me a couple of months to properly encompass that particular argument. I do, however , wish to address my arguments to the third proposition; "the individual's relationship with God".

It is this personal relationship with God that brings us to the lack of understanding between those that don't worship a God vs. those that do worship a God. What rational, faith, can exist in the worship of a being that cannot be counted on to engage us in a rational manner nor to engage us in a loving manner? Consider this, my child dies, it hurts, I ask God why, he dosen't answer. My friends and pastor tell me that it is God's will, that he, indeed, has a plan and my loss and pain is part of that plan. They go on to tell me that God still loves me, even though he allowed my most precious of possesions to die; my child, a part of me. They tell me that God may be testing my faith, that I should still continue to trust in God and to continue to have FAITH in his plan for me. Now, if I told a woman , in an abusive relationship, that her husband still loved her, that he had a plan, that he was beating the hell out of her and causing her pain just to test her love for him most of you would call me an idiot; and rightly so. The nature of RELIGION is that it trys to REMOVE the rational mind from the human being and force that person to continue in a very unpleasant and destructive relationship.

The nature of religion is that it holds God to standards we, as rational beings, would LOUDLY and FORCFULLY REJECT. Who, by a show of hands, would allow that some entity, perporting to love us would cause us pain and then have the unmitigated gall to tell us that we should just keep haveing FAITH?
Why should those that have FAITH, NOT, question their relationship with God? Will he get mad? Will he kill us? There is ONE thing and, one thing only, that religious FAITH has that no other rational relationship can ever give us; a means to live forever in happiness. It is this so-called promise that allows religion's to twist and corrupt the experience of believing in ANY GOD into just a way to control others.

Religion is not an acceptable, rational, positive relationship. Religion, extreme or otherwise, is a simple matter of using the spiritual nature of man to excise the rational, MORAL, nature of man. Speaking in VERY general terms, christians loath voodoo and witchcraft. They (christians) do their best to debunk other religious practices as evil, wrong, devil inspired (why do we need a devil?) or UNENLIGHTENED. Other religions use their dogma to control women; to keep them in their place or to use them as the scape goat of everything that goes wrong. Other religions use their religious dogma to control the lives of their parishioners or their clergy.

I debunk ALL religions as UNENLIGHTENED, I make no distinctions between any religion in this manner. All religions seek to CONTROL rational beings by the threat of everlasting terror and pain, religions use the "promise" of life everlasting to try to tear the rational mind from the human being. I have no beef with God, as such, I simply believe, and history proves me out, that religion is the baliwick of man and has little or nothing to do with a personal relationship with the God or Goddess that many would happily believe in, if not for the fear that they would involve themselves with some irrational religious doctorine.

I cannot prove that God exists and I cannot prove that God does not exist. But, I CAN prove, or at least bring into serious question, that God ever existed in a religious sense. Consider: the christian religion, old testament, God was a ferocious, vengeful God, he allowed NO sin to go unpunished (just ask the jews); then, from on "high" there was born a son of God and God allowed his son to be tortured and killed so that people might have a method of forgivness, so that even the most vile of sinners may have access to the "everlasting life in heaven". Is it only me that sees this as an underlying control mechanism; as a way to increase the pool of believers? Am I the only one that sees that RELIGION, at this period of world history, needed to purport some type of forgivness mechanism to continue to get people to worship a God, long since, considered,at the least, to be harsh and unforgiving?

The nature of man suggests that we are born moral beings, with the ability to think and act in a rational manner. We are capable of abstract thought, thus, leading us to also be spirtual beings. To consider the "WHY" "WHERE" and "HOW" of our existance. To ask these questions leads us to try to find a rational answer to them. The belief of a supreme being is not inherently irrational, but to build religion around this belief, especially the religions that man has built, IS IRRATIONAL.

It is only with religious fervor and hatred that a plant was made illegal, it is only with the hatred of religious dogma that women are treated as second class citizens. The mere fact that women are not, mostly, treated that way in western society's is that our society insisted on a more ENLIGHTEND treatment of women; in direct opposition to religious dogma. It is only with religous hatred that same sex lover's are treated as less than human. We, those on the cannabis boards, constantly look for enlightenment from our politicians, in the hope that one day we can all sit down at the same lake side and smoke the biggest, fattest, dooby every rolled, without fear of being Joe Bob's sexual plaything. I think that this will never happen and the reason is in our faces evey day; RELIGION. Only when religion is made to take a backseat to the needs of the individual. Only when religion becomes ENLIGHTEND enough to accept God as a loving being and not as the means to control others will we be free from the religious tyranny that has taken over the world. When a law is no longer based on "protecting me from me" and is NOT based in some religious dogma will we, those without FAITH, be able to seriously consider the question of God. Until that time, we look to other areas of our spirituality and hope that is enough, because the alternative is linked to religous dogma and religous dogma is, invariably, linked to hatred.

I make no apologies for being a rational being. I am also a spiritual being. I believe that a rational being CAN believe in a God, it is in our nature to seek out the spirituality of our being and to manifest it in some way. There is NO rational being that can believe in ANY religious dogma that seeks to control a persons actions. This is contrary to our nature, our intellect and to our constitutionaly protected rights (you knew I would get the constitution in there didn't you?). God may be around somewhere, but I doubt that you will find him in any unenlightend religious text. I can find my spirit in the simple act of fishing. It is one of my most favorite things to do. Not sport fishing, just baiting a hook in a shady piece of water, somewhere far enough from others that what I am smoking won't be a concern and far enough away from thirsty individuals; I don't think they would want to drink my particular brand of "tea".


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: mr freedom]
    #783604 - 07/29/02 09:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #783664 - 07/29/02 10:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Religion is man's creation. People believe in the Bible only because it was written thousands of years ago. When someone in this day and age claims God is speaking to him, he is front page news in the National Inquirer. Thus the Bible is nothing but an age old tabloid.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Anonymous]
    #783803 - 07/29/02 11:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Faith one......the Prophet Abraham.
Faith two......the Prophet Abraham.
Faith three....the Prophet Abraham.

Three massive religions that link back to the prophet Abraham, Adam and Eve, the worship of a one true God, the Creator, all require the human to repent when they sin.... God, being so MERCIFUL as He is, probably forgave Jeffrey Dahmer who likely lived a very tormented existence (If you ever heard Dahmer spoke).

God is dead? Only an imbecile would believe that.

Become a believing Christian or Muslim for 6 months, and you'll see through every deception that decieved the hearts of every nonbeliever.

Three abrahamic faiths, and you disbelieve in the Creator.

I don't like using the H word, but Hell is a reality and all the inmates who abide there forever curse God in every waking moment.

All you need is a little belief in God, and you'll eventually abide in Heaven. Die in disbelief or by your own hands, you would rather not exist then live on the next life.

Like it or not, you, me, and every other human being is going to one day, see God face to face when that peron recieves his final review. The disbelievers will be like terrified little children, while the faithful will bow before the LORD.

The people who abide Hell forever constantly regret disbelieving at every waking, tortureous moment.

"It was right in front of my face! My mother taught me the scriptures! Why did I not believe?"


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Anonymous

Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Zahid]
    #783833 - 07/29/02 11:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Your god is dead and no one cares, if theres a hell I'll see you there.






Just kidding, folks.. I love you all...

woot..


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Offlinetherewatchingme
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: ]
    #783872 - 07/29/02 12:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
[Everything stated above is, fictional, and is a result of a delusional mind, role playing]


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Zahid]
    #783886 - 07/29/02 12:21 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid, as metaphorical as holy texts are, does hell really exist?

Maybe hell is a state of mind while you're here, on earth, ALIVE.

No, no, no, it couldn't be that. YES, it could and it probably IS.

Maybe heaven is the same thing... but I'm sure you've thought of all this already and determined through hours and hours of research that the writers of said holy texts were referring to an ACTUAL PLACE. Not a place where your mind goes... a place where your "soul" goes when your body dies... whatever the fuck THAT means.

Yeah. Sin and you will be punished (if you don't "believe" or whatever)... because God is full of love and compassion... err, at least when it comes to his sheep.

Shear your woolen shades and admit yourself through the pearly gates.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #784028 - 07/29/02 01:22 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Indeed, only the fool says in his heart 'there is no God."
Anyone who does not perceive the world the way that you do is a "fool". How enlightening. Sounds very much like our moral Christian politicians who say anyone who smokes mary jane is an abuser and should be punished.

Harshness is an equal and opposite reaction to your statement, quoted above.
It may be equal and opposite, but is certainly not Christian. Don't force me to quote the Bible on that...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Swami]
    #784268 - 07/29/02 03:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #784840 - 07/29/02 07:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If you read the Bible, namely the works of Solomon, you would see that I was quoting someone.
Is that somehow less insulting to be cowardly and hide beside someone else's words?

I smoke on occassion, just so you know.
Try toking up outside of your church after service or letting your congregation know that you are a dope fiend and report back to me about all the love and acceptance that you receive.

Wrong. As stated above, it was taken directly from Solomon, the son of King David of Israel
Solomon was NOT a Christian and your quote was NOT posted as a loving response.

I can jab back all year Swami.
Christ taught otherwise - guess you don't really believe in what he was saying...

You've challenged me much better in times past.
Sorry, the Swam is getting old and feeble and am losing my edge.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Swami]
    #784850 - 07/29/02 07:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Swami]
    #785012 - 07/29/02 09:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

aaahh it must be a wonderful thing to be chritian. Dont ya think? I mean you can say you are a follower of christ and beleive in his "turn the other cheak" philosophy and appear to be a rightious man, or you can follow another verse in the bible that spouts an "eye for an eye" and still come out with the backing of the bible! Hell if ya get in a jam and can't find a useful quote from the book, its a damn big bugger I'm sure you could hurl it at someone and do some pretty hefty damage!

No really all this biblical rhetoric is useless. I'm sure many of the "hardcore" christians on this board will have their falling out within 5-10 yrs. I've met more on again off again christians then full timers.

Personally I think swami is a good guy. Without people of his breed, many would follow blindly on some strange religious path. Take into account what he says, and you can realize whether your beliefs are really "YOUR" beleifs and not that of a fad, phase or of another person.


--------------------
Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Zahid]
    #785018 - 07/29/02 09:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Like it or not, you, me, and every other human being is going to one day, see God face to face when that peron recieves his final review. The disbelievers will be like terrified little children, while the faithful will bow before the LORD.

The people who abide Hell forever constantly regret disbelieving at every waking, tortureous moment.


This is a selfish point of view and one of the most contradictory ideas in religious dogma. Most religions preach selflessness but in this line of thinking, every selfless act is, in the end, an attempt at personal gain.


--------------------
:egyptian:


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: World Spirit]
    #785230 - 07/29/02 10:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I surley misunderstood your post. In what way was I a "fool". I supported my argument with sound reasoning; you did not. I asked for a rational discourse for the topic at hand, namely, that God is irrelivant.

Also, I suggest that you look up the word "sympathize"; this is what caused my confusion.


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #785233 - 07/29/02 10:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, Larry, my first post was mostly for you. In an effort to defend yourself against the christian moralists, you may want to cosider some of my arguments.


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: Zahid]
    #785240 - 07/29/02 10:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for making my point better than I EVER could have. Your threats of violent hell. Your analogy to frightend children and your SUPREME argument, that one should "bow down" before God or anything, for that matter, are the very reasons that religion fails to bring forth a world of peace; EVER.


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: therewatchingme]
    #785249 - 07/29/02 10:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think your philosophy on this matter is what MOST people, could and would understand and accept. Why should one choose to wait to die before achieving a "heaven" like place? Why not examine the lives around us, determine what it is that makes so many, exploited, poor, hurtful persons and develop a method for eliminating this from the earth now?

Ps. one should keep in mind that I, myself at least, would refuse any system that did not acknowledge individual liberty and freedom in all ways. Save, of course, where our freedom intruded on another's life, liberty or property.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist? [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #785303 - 07/29/02 11:29 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

First and foremost I just have to ackowledge the fact that the following statement is not only true to a certain extent but also the funniest damn thing this thread has had to offer thus far:
In reply to:

aaahh it must be a wonderful thing to be chritian. Dont ya think? I mean you can say you are a follower of christ and beleive in his "turn the other cheak" philosophy and appear to be a rightious man, or you can follow another verse in the bible that spouts an "eye for an eye" and still come out with the backing of the bible! Hell if ya get in a jam and can't find a useful quote from the book, its a damn big bugger I'm sure you could hurl it at someone and do some pretty hefty damage!


That being said...

Anyone here have the same view as I do about the bible being more of a guidbook of morality then an actual set of laws? Cause it seems to me that it was meant to be viewed as more of an Aesop's Fables type thing then anything else. I don't think anyone in there right mind would take any of Aesop's works to be taken literally simply because of the fact that the main characters in many of his stories are animals with humanistic features/behavioral patterns/etc... Does that mean that just because the Holy Bible uses people (some real, some only assumed to be real) as it's characters then it must have some validity? After all, anyone can write up a ficticious story involving historical figures, right? But that doesn't mean that the story being told is how things really were just because the people involved can be traced back in history to real people.

Just something to take into consideration I guess.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Heaven and Hell - places of existence? [Re: Sclorch]
    #785324 - 07/29/02 11:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I just noticed a comment in one of Sclorch's posts regarding wether or not ideas like Heaven and Hell are meant to be taken as literal interpretations of actual places or something else entirely different altogether. I don't claim to have an easy answer to this one, but I did read something once that made a lot of sense in my eyes regarding this same subject. The following excert comes from the Modern Library's version of the Divine Comedy (more specifically, John Ciardi's translation) and was part of the introduction to Inferno:

"Hell is not where the damned are; it is what they are. As all things seek what they most are, the damned seek Hell."

The point being made is that even though Hell is considered by many to be a place of eternal torment and suffering (and is commonly referred to as such) that doesn't necessarily mean that this place is a physical or even spiritual realm, but rather more of a state of being. Imagine if you will that after death your spiritual essence was drawn into a sort of existence where all you 'experienced' was pain/suffering/remorse/etc... In this sense, your very existence would be a sort of void completely lacking any real substance. You wouldn't necessarily 'feel' anything, you would just become a sort of negative energy in the universe. And the same would be true for Heaven. Generally 'good' people would be drawn towards the positive aspects of existence.

Of course, this is all just speculation on my part. Perhaps I'm assuming too much.



--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Heaven and Hell - places of existence? [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #785343 - 07/30/02 12:22 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Created of Void, this earth is a home to a million different species, not just humans alone. why can't you see that to argue is pointless? why can't you see that the noise is just that. noise from the boys and the girls of the world. the young and the old, the galant and the churl. rebellion took hold, a deep fungus growth, on our heart and our minds, with a choakhold on the throat of a nation once grand, it now blows away like the sand, and bit by bit we are eaten from within.
rebellion started with little things here and little things there and little things to scare. to make that statement that makes you feel different. now everyone's different so you'll never be different. again and around, around and again...swirling ever deeper...deeper within. this rebellion is stupid...it invades our very lifes...this rebellion is stupid. it causes no happiness, just strife.
"i won't do what you tell me, don't tell me what to do! i hate you and your system, and i hate your religion!" childish things, that stem from deep down. deep down in your conscience, inner light can be found. why not worship a god? because he's done wrong? you look at only the murder that has happened so long? what about the love, that goes on so strong? what about sweet children singing their song? to a god that they love. a god that they trust...but even though they do, they know they never have to.
people who follow religion aren't blind, they aren't feeble or wimpy or weak in the mind. they have a free will, and choose what they will...and nothing can force them to worship God. they choose to praise their God. dogma? dogma? get's thrown around alot...people like that word...but it's starting to rot...like all of the athiest theories and quips, i believe they are starting to lose thier grip. they don't seem to see atheism dying out. in fact it's so obvious, it just seems to shout...that there is a higher power. of SOME form no doubt. there are more religious people in the world today...then there ever will be athiests in any way.
you tell us christians not to rag on you and preach, then you flip yourself around, and try to force and teach. you use insults and cutdowns and belittling remarks, which makes you no better than the christians you complain about.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Heaven and Hell - places of existence? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #785374 - 07/30/02 12:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think you are starting to get it "Don't tell me how to live"; period. Why must religious organizations make, what THEY consider to be a sin, illegal? Why can't I smoke a doob or drink some "tea", right now, in my own home without committing a felony? I'll tell you. Because the use of plants, for spirtiual endevours, as seen BY CHRISTIANS to be worshipping a god other than their particular version of the "invisble man", so they conspired with politicians to make these plants illegal.

Another thing, don't confuse an atheist with someone like myself. I am not an athiest, I do not discount the possibility that there may be a God/Goddess. I do not have a religion based on proposing that their is no god. What I am, is a man with a rational mind, who has, as yet, found no reason to beleive that God exists in any form. I do propose that the God that most religions espouse as the one true God, does NOT exist and that their is no proof, whatsoever, that their is ONE bit of historical truth to the bible. It, the bible, is what it is, a book of good and bad storys, meant to deter one from committing acts of immorality. I don't need a childrens fantasy book to do this, as I said, I am a rational man. I need no other method for determing, ON MY OWN, what a moral action is and going ahead with that action; most adults, once upon a time, thought the same as I do now.


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Heaven and Hell - places of existence? [Re: mr freedom]
    #785413 - 07/30/02 01:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I do propose that the God that most religions espouse as the one true God, does NOT exist and that their is no proof, whatsoever, that their is ONE bit of historical truth to the bible.

no proof? but my brother, i was under the impression that many historians of biblical times and closely following biblical times, backed up much of what was in the bible. should one make a statement before one is sure it is truth? wasn't it flavius josephus who backed up parts of the bible quite well, proving that at least those parts are very historical? what about Polycarp, Tertullian, Julius Africanus, Ignatius, Origen, Clement, and all the others that lived very soon after all these "myths" took place and validated every one?

but more importantly...you are rational? logical? i can see that my braa, and my compliments on it.
so why are you rational? what made you rational?


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Heaven and Hell - places of existence? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #786735 - 07/30/02 06:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I lived for over a year and a half as the best christain as I could. Belief was there. And yet everyday was still torment to me. And for the most part, every day is still torment. But now there is one differance. I try to live up to my standards. Not the standards of a so-called perfect being. I am more than willing to believe that some form of higher power got this ball rolling, but I don't think it is still here watching after us. I try to be a good person by my definition of it, and if when I die I am confronted by an omniscent being that can not appericate that, and it wishes to cast me out of its sight for all of time, then I say fine. I do not wish to be a member of any "heaven" that denounces me for my sinful nature when my humanity was created by god.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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