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Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God?
    #872644 -

Another thread where ONLY scripture is relevant...

Can a person get to heaven if they do not love god, or even hate God, but otherwise follow his commandments.

How can anyone love a god that would torture his children for all eternity. This to me makes the "love" of God akin to the "love" of a child molester.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #872675 -

Another thread where ONLY scripture is relevant...

Can a person get to heaven if they do not love god, or even hate God, but otherwise follow his commandments.

How can anyone love a god that would torture his children for all eternity. This to me makes the "love" of God akin to the "love" of a child molester.

No. The relationship has to be mutual. We (believers) love God because He Created us, and gave us life so we can serve Him. God also has a promise to those who serve Him, the world and everything in it does not.

I'm not going to deny God because He damns those who are wicked to Hell. Hell also benefits the believers, because we fear God's wrath. Personally, I can't deny the realities I discovered, and the idea of burning forever in Hell quite frankly scares me.

All I know is that is God has a promise, He loves me, He forgives me, He gives me true peace in my heart, and He created me. For that I love Him more than anything in the world.


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872740 -

In reply to:
I'm not going to deny God because He damns those who are wicked to Hell.



But you believe that good people that do not believe in him will go to Hell.

These people aren't wicked. Why would God expect people to believe in him when he has not chosen to make himself seen by them. There is no concrete proof that he does or does not exist. Faith in God is not really faith in God, it is faith in the people that told you that he exixts, and ancient inscriptions that cannot be proven. There are many ancient beliefs, what makes them any more or less likely to be true?


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872807 -

Your whole meaning of life is based on fear. All the lovey-dovey things you say about your god seems to be just lies you're telling yourself to try and hide that fact.

We both want.... To rape you.

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #872821 -

Is the pizza palace still open?  I like the thin 'n crispy crust with lots of anchovies.

Nummy! :smile:

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872903 -

what about people of other religions..... they may live their whole lives good people, but are cast to hell simply cause they chose to worship different god(s)?doesnt make much sence to me......


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #872942 -

Of course it doesnt make sense, your not a blind god-fearing worshipper like our friend Zahid

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #872946 -

But you believe that good people that do not believe in him will go to Hell.

I believe so. Sorry. :frown:

These people aren't wicked. Why would God expect people to believe in him when he has not chosen to make himself seen by them. There is no concrete proof that he does or does not exist. Faith in God is not really faith in God, it is faith in the people that told you that he exixts, and ancient inscriptions that cannot be proven. There are many ancient beliefs, what makes them any more or less likely to be true?

Because first, Humans have free will, and God making an appearance does not fit into His plan. Second, those who disbelieve deny the existence of God, and God does not like this (Who am I to question?). Thirdly, Muhammad told us to surrender to God - and he told us that this is what Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and the rest of the prophets preached. If my 'faith in God' isn't faith in God, then what am I worshipping then, who am I working for?

wrestler_az wrote:
what about people of other religions..... they may live their whole lives good people, but are cast to hell simply cause they chose to worship different god(s)?doesnt make much sence to me......

According to the deen I follow, there are a select few religions that are accepted by God, namely Judaism, Chritianity, and a few more that hardly exist today. Both these faiths involve the belief in God, angels, Satan - and they involve the very important act of repentence, along with the destinations of Heaven and Hell. Worshipping a god other than God is a big no-no, and dying in this state after you have been called to worship the one God (knowledge of God's message) is definately not a good thing, because you would have died while associating partners with God. 


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Edited by Zahid (09/09/02 04:52 PM)

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872964 -

According to the deen I follow, there are a select few religions that are accepted by God, namely Judaism, Chritianity, and a few more that hardly exist today. Both these faiths involve the belief in God, angels, Satan - and they involve the very important act of repentence, along with the destinations of Heaven and Hell. Worshipping a god other than God is a big no-no, and dying in this state after you have been called to worship the one God (knoledge of God's message) is definately not a good thing, because you would have died while associating partners with God.


see this is where i have troubles understanding your god. he CLAIMS to love all people..... heres the scenario..... this person is brought up by his parents, who were in turn brought up by theirs, so on and so on, in worshiping a set of gods pertaining to a certian religon. a misionary comes, trys telling them about the one all mighty, and that the gods they have been worshiping for generations are just their imagination.....of corse id tell the misonary thats nice but no thanks im happy with the ones i got now, following the rules of my religon.  your god has the nerve to send these people to hell? how selfish! quite frankly, i dont need a god like that, doesnt sound all loving to me, more like greedy selfish conceeded bastard! :shocked:  why exactly did he give us FREE WILL if only to punish us if we decide to use it?
 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872966 -

on a side note..... "namely Judaism......"

how could a god such as yours throw away all these other religons, but yet allow for the one that denies the reserection of christ, his own son?


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

Edited by wrestler_az (09/09/02 04:32 PM)

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #872988 -

see this is where i have troubles understanding your god. he CLAIMS to love all people..... heres the scenario..... this person is brought up by his parents, who were in turn brought up by theirs, so on and so on, in worshiping a set of gods pertaining to a certian religon. a misionary comes, trys telling them about the one all mighty, and that the gods they have been worshiping for generations are just their imagination.....of corse id tell the misonary thats nice but no thanks im happy with the ones i got now, following the rules of my religon. your god has the nerve to send these people to hell? how selfish! quite frankly, i dont need a god like that, doesnt sound all loving to me, more like greedy selfish conceeded bastard! why exactly did he give us FREE WILL if only to punish us if we decide to use it?

God does not love all people. As I've just said, the relationship has to be mutual. He loves those who make the choice (notice how they are using their free will) to worship Him, repent when they've sinned, and to live a righteous life. Selfish? I wouldn't know. All I know is that I fear God (For He created and sustains Hell), and based on what I have experienced only a fool would go back to disbelief. Yes, you can get through this life without religion. Can you get through the next?

And if you read carefully, you should know Islamic tradition stresses that Jesus was not the son of God, but only a prophet who taught his followers to surrender to the one God.


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872992 -

i have my own religon..... i am my own god :grin: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #872998 -

dude, get a hobby
love something
stop doing this to yourself

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Grav]
    #873001 -

ya, really man...... :smirk: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

Edited by wrestler_az (09/09/02 04:54 PM)

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Grav]
    #873003 -

Well, dude, if you're going to continue talking, say something intelligent. Contradict me. Dialogue, man.

dude, get a hobby
love something
stop doing this to yourself


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #873016 -

Hrmm.. for some crazy reason that seems like it would be a waste of typing.. sorry dude



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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Grav]
    #873029 -

Ok, Zahid the fearer of gods, heres one for you

If you have an ounce of intelligence in your close-minded brain, you would probably realize that nobody on this board is gonna swallow your fairy-nog...  so.. whats your motivation? You're here ranting that we should worship your god or go to hell.. Who the fuck is going to take you seriously?

You know you're not going to change anyones minds here.. so are you just desperately trying to instill fear in people's minds for fun?

I dont know...  your posts are usually good for a chuckle but im feeling tired and intolerant...

Dude, if you got beat up alot in school, its okay, they were just kids. Get over it.  :confused:

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Grav]
    #873040 -

Baby_Hitler wrote:
In reply to:
Another thread where ONLY scripture is relevant...

Can a person get to heaven if they do not love god, or even hate God, but otherwise follow his commandments.

How can anyone love a god that would torture his children for all eternity. This to me makes the "love" of God akin to the "love" of a child molester.



...


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #873055 -

God is bullshit, and AS you die, I hope you remember that maybe everything you beleived was wrong and there is nothing after life.  All i want is for you to at least acknoledge to me that you COULD be wrong, that's all.
I can admit that much for my athiest views, would you be so arrogent (much like the religion itself, Man being created in the image of god? thats a TAD bit narcissitic to me...) to think that your belief structure is central to the entire universe?
Give it a try, swallow your pride. :smirk:


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Edited by blinkidiot (09/09/02 05:30 PM)

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873082 -

God is bullshit, so are you, and AS you die, I hope you remember that maybe everything you beleived was wrong and there is nothing. All i want is for you to at least acknoledge to me that you COULD be wrong, that's all.
I can admit that much my athiest views, would you be so arrogent (much like the religion itself, Man being created in the image of god? thats a TAD bit narcissitic to me...) to think that your belief structure is central to the entire universe?
Give it a try, swallow your pride.

The possibility that I am wrong? While my faith is solid as a rock, none of us will really know until we die - but my personal experiences involving God contradict the reality that atheists and nonbelievers alike percieve. Can you acknowledge the possibility that I might be right?

...and man being created in God's image is a Christian tradition.


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #873088 -

I can admit that much for my athiest views......

looks like he already did


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #873096 -

I can admit i could be wrong and on a one way train to "hell"
Can you admit maybe your faith/rock is gunna sink?


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873098 -

That's the same question, which I already answered.


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873101 -

i got a ticket for that train ride as well....... man, if this guy IS right, heaven is going to be  about as busy as church on super bowl sunday.....hell is where the partys gonna be....ROCK ON!!! :grin:lol 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #873113 -

Sorry bout the christian thing, like it matters.

Since I am about to go to sleep, I'll make it short.
You take a leap of faith and because the rest of us dont leap in the same direction, we are doomed to hell forever?
NO GOD would do that. What happened to Jesus loves you, even if you dont love him? Sorry, that's what sunday school told me, maybe thats a christian thing too.
There's no point in talking to you because you have made up your mind and will follow your belief till
A) you die
B)you are takewn advantage of by another religion
Religion is a great way of comfortinmg yourself that you have somewhere to go and that someone cares about this peice of rock hurtling across the galaxy. What about life on other planets. What do you think about that?
Fuck, i'll stay up to respond to you


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873121 -

you got a good point there...... i have a hard time accepting a god that would send me to hell just because i made a different turn than the rest.....he gives us this incredible gift of free will (not so sure exactly how incredible it is just yet, ill keep you posted) alongside our iinstincts and desires and then gives us a set of rules that totally oppose these naturally occuring feelings......haha, jokes on us, what a funny man god is!


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873125 -

What about life on other planets. What do you think about that?

If there's intelligent life out there, I'm sure they recieved God's word in past, maybe even long before humanity. The possibility is endless. A leap of faith? When I look at the world around me my logic tells me that God exists. Reading the Qur'aan, my logic told me this is the final religion of God. You can't just blindly follow a scripture, rather every Christian, Jew, and Muslim believes in what he believes because he observes existence itself. Get some sleep.


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Edited by Zahid (09/09/02 06:17 PM)

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #873140 -

My favorite is his rules
dont get me started on that one
assume for a moment he did tell us what it's all about, did he have to take the time and say all that shit in  genesis?
and how many times has it been translated/reworded
the entire documentation surrounding this stinks of man-made
that's not very divine.  well we could just shrug that off as a miscommunication...
and my last question
what about other life.  what about it? please dont try to explain to me that animals,insects,whatever arent worthy of it.  You cant say that there are things not worthy of "heaven", but yet have redeemable qualities...
so this being made all sorts of stuff, watches it and then lets it all die.  Is that the nature of the universe?
I'd rather think of religion as a step in the right directionin terms of conducting one's life, but once it gets organized, it turns into a business.
Lastly, 2 thing i want to point out
-Up until (again no date) sometime in the midst of the 1500's, you could pay the church money to get a family member of questionable faith into heaven.  It's all about fear of purgatory/hell.
- the fact that there is a 100+ million dollar cathedral for the catolic church in.... LA i think? where did the money come from? the collection plate! and you thought your cash would never get to god..
bah..
sorry to attack your religion there, long day. Time for sleep :wink:


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: blink]
    #873167 -

why is that all these religious zealouts are so eager to go to heaven if they really don't even know what this supposed heaven is like? It doesn't seem like the point of religion is to live by the scripture but to say im right and youre wrong. It makes people feel supperior to others. Why can't everyone just realize that religion is a governmental tool to subdue the masses into conformity. Religion is the opium of the people. Everyone is distracted searching for their false god instead of reaching real enlightenment. If everyone achieved true enlightenment we would realize that we wouldn't need institutions to facilitate our life all we need is eachother and our own intellect. Religion is an institution used to control the masses in order to secure the existance of the institutions which support it.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: 1stimer]
    #873256 -

hmmmmmm......im gonna smoke some weed, read that again like 20 minutes from now, then reply........little too deep for my sober mind :grin: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #873531 -

You're going to heaven no matter what you do.

God(i.e. everything) loves us all unconditionally.



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Mp3 of the month: The Mamas & the Papas - Strange Young Girls


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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Zahid]
    #873600 -

Admit it Zahid, you're in it for the little boys!  :tongue:

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #873961 -

Why would God expect people to believe in him when he has not chosen to make himself seen by them.

This is one of those great questions that believers are immune to.



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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #875935 -

"Can a person get to heaven if they do not love god, or even hate God, but otherwise follow his commandments?"

If a person does not love God, then they are not keeping His commandments.

Mark 12:30,1 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


"How can anyone love a god that would torture his children for all eternity. This to me makes the "love" of God akin to the "love" of a child molester?"

God is a God of justice and love - love to His elect, justice to the reprobate.



"Why would God expect people to believe in him when he has not chosen to make himself seen by them?"

Matthew 11:25,6 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Romans 9:22,3 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

He makes Himself known only to the vessels of mercy. What is amazing is that any are saved, since all deserve damnation.



"But you believe that good people that do not believe in him will go to Hell? These people aren't wicked. ...."

Those who die unconverted, without being born again, show no evidence of being saved. They will answer for their own sins, and be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Believing the true gospel is the evidence of salvation, not the cause of salvation. The cause is the perfect work of the Christ, applied to the elect in time by the Spirit, which results in conversion and the new life.

By our standard of "good or bad" we may say someone is "good". But by Biblical standards:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Someone else wrote - "Because first, Humans have free will..."

The false doctrine of free will comes from a complete misunderstanding of the effects of the Fall on the race. Man was created (Adam) with a free will. But after the first sin the entire race was condemned legally and the nature of man became bound to wickedness.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:18,9 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; For as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners, ....
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Romans 3:10-2 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The spiritual bondage of man is so severe that he can do nothing to change his condition. The natural man can not and does not choose Christ. The very opposite is true. Christ chooses him.

Acts 13:48 ...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Ephesians 4:4,5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
John 17:2 ...that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
2 Timothy 2:19 ...The Lord knoweth them that are his.
2 Thessalonians 13 ... because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:... 65...that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: fivepointer]
    #876878 -

So all this "God is love" stuff is a bunch of crap?

God is a spitefull evil entity?

You actually believe that everyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity?

That's just sick.

What about John 3:16

" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son, so none should perish and whoever would belive upon him would have everlasting life."

This verse demonstrates that ALL people have the choice to be saved.

How do you know the bible to be true? There are other religious manuscripts that were not chosen by man to be a part of "The Bible" (meaning Man's Bible). Do you believe that the hand of God guided the minds of the people who made these decisions? I'm sure that you believe in the existance if false doctrine, what part of your faith convinces you that you have not fallen victim to false doctrine. Does your own pride prevent you from challenging your own faith in yourself by considering the possibility that you have been mislead?

Perhaps the true word has been lost or nearly lost, and the Bible itself is a false doctrine.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: ]
    #877080 -

Rock the Kazba!  Let's have a party.. Hey, Mr. Shrrooms, get a pizza with mushrooms! :tongue:

 

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #879017 -

as to the title question... why you you want to "go to heaven" if you don't believe in god?
~
as to relevant literature... which scripture? whose heaven?
~
how about fiction? lotsa good fiction about heaven... twain did some stories (e.g. "captain stormfield's visit to  heaven"... heinlein too (e.g. _job: a comedy of justice_)...
oh well... i suppose soon enough we shall know (or, perhaps not :wink: ...)
~


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #879019 -

oh, and in the fascinating kasantzakis novel _the last temptaion of christ_ jesus is asked about the rich man in hell (in his "parable" about the rich man and the poor man and their respective post-mortem destinations) and would he stay in hell forever... & jesus replied that the loving father would not condemn anyone to hell forever...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #879022 -

heard this one on NPR a few years ago... an austrian (german maybe?) woman was telling of her time in a catholic girls scholl when the priest told the girls what heaven was like...'girls, heaven can be thought of  like this auditorium... the good catholic get the best seats down front... the rest of the observant catholics fill up the rest of the seats... and the good lutherans get the standing room at the back...
~
:wink: ...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: gnrm23]
    #879029 -

I didn't say anything about believing or not believing, only not LOVING God.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Can you get to heaven if you don"t love God? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #887730 -

One simple word...  Yes!  :laugh:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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