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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1950552 - 09/25/03 09:40 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Enter said:
Eternal torture is not what I was writing about, but nevertheless, here I go on the subject of hell...





Yes, I think you did allude to "eternal torture" in your post.

That statement you made about people facing the wrath of God.

Quote:

Think of it more accurately. It's not so much torture for a hateful human as it is the freedom of seperation for the loving human from the hateful human. Any type of "hell" serves this purpose. It is a seperate place for hateful beings to spend they're time (I realize I'm adding a dash of sarcasm here but my intentions are GOOD).




That is torture you are reffering to. Torture as a form of punishment. Which is pure insanity, IMO.

Could not God erradicate such souls from eternity? You suggest that God allows such souls to continue existing in eternal suffering. Your God is insane. Sorry if this offends.

No ,not really, because your statement offends me.

You perpetuate fear as a means of mind control.The funny thing is, I used to be just like you.When I was like ,13.





--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (09/25/03 09:41 AM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: sirreal]
    #1950613 - 09/25/03 10:31 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

I like the way u think Sirreal :smile:
I take no offense to Enters reply tho, it's his opinion
and one that I elicited and he was thoughtful enough to
express it. I have no way to ascertain either my opinion
or Enters with complete assurance, so I can only go on
logic and what makes sense to my mind. So far no one
has said anything to me (even off the Shroomery) that would
resolve the seemingly contradictory idea of a loving God
who condemns, gives people the ability to do wrong and then
banishes them to eternal torment...
but who knows, maybe that's just the way it is and all else
is just wishful thinking on my part...
I'll probably never know...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1950622 - 09/25/03 10:39 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
I like the way u think Sirreal :smile:




:cool:


Quote:

I take no offense to Enters reply tho, it's his opinion




Not really. It's a very old opinion.


Quote:

and one that I elicited and he was thoughtful enough to
express it.





People who believe in hell are always quick to express thier opinion. I don't think it is very thoughtful.


Quote:

So far no one
has said anything to me (even off the Shroomery) that would
resolve the seemingly contradictory idea of a loving God
who condemns, gives people the ability to do wrong and then
banishes them to eternal torment...
but who knows, maybe that's just the way it is and all else
is just wishful thinking on my part...
I'll probably never know... 





If a God like that does exist( :lol:), fuck him! 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: sirreal]
    #1950629 - 09/25/03 10:44 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
If a God like that does exist( :lol:), fuck him! 



"Fuck redemption, Fuck damnation ! we are Gods
unwanted children...so be it ! we don't need him" -Tyler Derden, Fight Club :tongue: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1950638 - 09/25/03 10:51 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
Quote:

sirreal said:
If a God like that does exist( :lol:), fuck him! 



"Fuck redemption, Fuck damnation ! we are Gods
unwanted children...so be it ! we don't need him" -Tyler Derden, Fight Club :tongue: 




I feel so unwanted. :frown:..... :razz:


BTW,I love that movie.Very entertaining! :smile: 


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (09/25/03 10:52 AM)


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OfflineFunguy
Homo SapiensEntheogenous
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 2,415
Loc: Muffy
Last seen: 4 months, 23 days
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: sirreal]
    #1950764 - 09/25/03 12:09 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

I do love debates, but not such offensive language.
Would a loving father allow his son to do what he wants, no matter what it was? Would a loving father punish his son for doing something wrong, yet still love him? God gives us thousands upon thousands of chances to believe in him and Christ. Jesus himself said that to see and believe is good, to not see and still believe is even better (something along that line).
Can you forgive someone if they never ask forgiveness? We don't have to do any special ritual, dance, or anything like that for forgiveness. Just believe. To me, a loving God gave us a very easy way into Heaven.
1. He created us in his image for friendship. He gave us freewill.
2. We sinned against him.
3. He still loved us despite our actions, so he sent his son to die in our place.
Would you let your child take the place of a serial killer on the electric chair?


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1950768 - 09/25/03 12:14 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Funguy said:
I do love debates, but not such offensive language.




Maybe you should hang out in a christian forum.


Quote:

Would a loving father allow his son to do what he wants, no matter what it was? Would a loving father punish his son for doing something wrong, yet still love him? God gives us thousands upon thousands of chances to believe in him and Christ. Jesus himself said that to see and believe is good, to not see and still believe is even better (something along that line).
Can you forgive someone if they never ask forgiveness? We don't have to do any special ritual, dance, or anything like that for forgiveness. Just believe. To me, a loving God gave us a very easy way into Heaven.
1. He created us in his image for friendship. He gave us freewill.
2. We sinned against him.
3. He still loved us despite our actions, so he sent his son to die in our place.
Would you let your child take the place of a serial killer on the electric chair?





Punishment is one thing. Eternal torture is another.

I do like what Jesus said-"some will be beaten with few stripes, some with many".



--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (09/25/03 12:16 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 14 days
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: sirreal]
    #1950792 - 09/25/03 12:28 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

> Would you let your child take the place of a serial killer on the electric chair?

If it would end killing, I would sit on the chair myself and pull the switch.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: sirreal]
    #1950796 - 09/25/03 12:30 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

I do not think that God exists in mans image. Hell, judgement, condemnation, love... these are manmade concepts.




anything you try to convay is a man made image - the language you're using to convey your emotions towards the question are man made images, responding to a man made image. You can believe what you want to believe, based off of your past experience, and come up with your own ideas, and people can influence these ideas in whichever way they do, but in the end - it's all a man made image. The unknown is nothing more than the unknown. The concept in it self is somewhat hard to grasp. When someone tries to conceive of something completely unfamiliar, guesses, uneducated, are all that can come of the conclusions.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1950809 - 09/25/03 12:38 PM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

automan said:
you know... in the first translations of the bible the word angel was a mistake. the greek (paul lived in greece) word was actually "messenger", so instead of angel from heaven, it was messenger from the sky... :wink:   




Exactly. Then there are all the chariots of fire flying around, the flying around on clouds.. Moses descending and Jesus transforming and shit like that..

Aliens. Most indubiantly.
Peace. 



"Chariots of the Gods" debunked 


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Seuss]
    #1951118 - 09/25/03 02:53 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Would you let your child take the place of a serial killer on the electric chair?

If it would end killing, I would sit on the chair myself and pull the switch. 



Amen to that :smile:
same here, I would give my life, heck I'd even live :tongue: ! (and
do) to help others... 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 14 days
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: lucid]
    #1951207 - 09/25/03 03:32 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

> anything you try to convay is a man made image

For the most part, I agree with you. What I was getting at is that most people view "God" in terms that they can relate with, which are "man made ideals" resulting in a God created in man's image. Believe what you want, but in my experience, this is not the case.

> The unknown is nothing more than the unknown.

I eat when I am hungry.
I sleep when I am tired.
What else is there?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Seuss]
    #1951355 - 09/25/03 04:32 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

I eat when I am hungry.
I sleep when I am tired.
What else is there? 



Work :frown: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: Funguy]
    #1951449 - 09/25/03 05:00 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Funguy said:
Would a loving father allow his son to do what he wants, no matter what it was? Would a loving father punish his son for doing something wrong, yet still love him?




Reminds me of that parable, can't think of its name, where the one kid goes off to the city and such.. heh.

It also reminds me of the movie Blow. How his father loved him so deeply but allowed him to make his own choices.

Quote:


God gives us thousands upon thousands of chances to believe in him and Christ.




He gives us chances? What chances are these? How do we tell when we are faced with one of these chances?

Quote:


Jesus himself said that to see and believe is good, to not see and still believe is even better (something along that line).




Jesus himself? Can we trust words that have been translated and altered over the course of thousands of years as the undeniable and true words of Jesus? If someone editing an edition of the Bible slipped in a couple of words to benefit him and his cause (maybe, getting people to believe in something without questioning), how would we, the "sheep", know?

I don't know what is on the other side of that star up there in space... is it okay to make an assumption of what is there and believe in it without question with nothing to actually give us any reason to believe in it?

Quote:


Can you forgive someone if they never ask forgiveness?





Can you tax someone if they never ask to be taxed?

Quote:


1. He created us in his image for friendship. He gave us freewill.
2. We sinned against him.
3. He still loved us despite our actions, so he sent his son to die in our place.




Hm.. he gave us free will.. the ability to choose to have any thought or to do any action that we wish when faced with any situation or choice.

So, He gave us this choice, this complete freedom of choice.. but we can be Eternally punished for certain choices we make? --Error-- --Error-- ---Does Not Compute---

How did we sin agansit God? How do we even know his will to know if we sinned agansit him? Because someone told us it is that way?

Quote:


Would you let your child take the place of a serial killer on the electric chair?




Well, I would of course raise my child to be able to be open to every experience, to question his beliefs, and to have the right mind to be able to decide his thoughts and actions for himself, for him to be able to use his free will to whatever end he wishes..

If he decided to sit in the electric chair in the place of a serial killer, and my child was old enough to legally make his decisions for himself, or I myself had reason to believe that he fully understood what was happenign and why he chose his actions and so forth.. it wouldn't be my decision to make.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineska8ball
anaxagoras
Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 36
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Do u Believe, in an unconditional loving God ? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1951847 - 09/25/03 07:08 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Allright - what im about to say is only a representation of what i understand about what i cannot... I hope you guys r familliar with the concept of the lifestream - when i speak about the alloted space god has given to us in the lifestream i speak of that space where you hear the sound of ur voice when u think ect. this space cannot be tasted,felt,seen,heard, or sensed in any way so it does not exist in the physical world. MY outlook on hell can be explained in this passage from an old conversation wiht a freind.....

when we die we go into this stream- this is the spirit world - god is a type of energy unique to the others that is the underlying connection between them - almost like bonds between atoms - he is supremely simple making him the basis of all that is complex -we are always part of this stream but when we die our energy takes a new free form that can flow along with god and life- not just the alloted spcae given by god. If we have lived a life that is disconected from the spirit (a sinfull life whatever sin is is another questioN!) our soul is not free to flow but tries to flow against it - causing friction - making the pain which is hell. But if we live spirtually fulfilled lives our energy will flow with the stream and will be able to feel pure essence without corruption - there will be utter peace and no physical world - emotiosn will get to a point of complexity that is ffar far far beyond what we understand about the physical world or even about our own emotions


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