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OfflineEllis Dee
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Thinking about the nature of God * 3
    #1316369 - 02/18/03 10:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I've been thinking lately about the fairness of God. He seems to play games with us, like we are a game to Him. He created us and we didn't ask to be created. He makes rules for us to follow and says he'll punish us if we don't follow those rules and love Him. And it's all for His glory. Love Him or get His punishment. He seems like an egotistical narcisist to me.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #1316382 - 02/18/03 10:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah... narcissism = asshole in my book.

The best way to deal with those kinds of assholes is to just go on living like they're not there...

I'd rather be tortured than give in to an asshole of a god.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Sclorch]
    #1316400 - 02/18/03 10:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

lol


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee] * 2
    #1316404 - 02/18/03 10:40 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I despise that view of god. It's like saying god is the painter and we are the painting. When a painting dosen't turn out how you want it to, do you blame the painting for fucking up. Rediculous.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #1316653 - 02/18/03 12:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It would seem that if you're all powerful, that you wouldn't need anything at all. How could God want something and not get it?

That's where Christianity loses me my friend. I reject any idea of a God that would reject me.

I think it's possible that we are all equal parts of God who have voluntarily relinquished our memory of being God in order to experience the wonder of who we are, and that we have in fact, chosen to be here.













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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



Edited by Learyfan (03/03/16 08:45 AM)


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Learyfan]
    #1316680 - 02/18/03 12:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's possible that we are all equal parts of God who have voluntarily relinquished our memory of being God in order to experience the wonder of who we are, and that we have in fact, chosen to be here.

You said it Learyfan!  :wink:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1316905 - 02/18/03 02:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Thats one of the most open minded thing I've seen you say in a year; here's an essay I wrote on another board directly relating to the love RELATIONSHIP of God.
I think you might enjoy it.

"I don't wish to stray off the topic at hand; that being "love vs. hate, God vs. Religion". The true topic should be: love and God vs. Religion and hate.

The easy argument here is the argument of "love vs. hate". What is "love"? Love has many, many, many forms, applications and uses. Love, is the foundation of many of our most profound relationships. Love lets us determine that a person is special to us. Love makes us nuts. We love our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandmothers, grandfathers, this love is familial in nature. We love the woman that makes us wear a tie to dinner (we hate ties, but it makes her happy). We love our neighbor, but we probably wouldn't wear a tie just because they gave us that "special smile". And, those who have FAITH, purport to love GOD.

Love, in all of it's wonderful forms, is still nothing more than an emotion. Consider this definition, or lack thereof:
" Emotion is a slippery word to define. Internal human states like fear and anger (what psychologists call affective states) seem obvious aspects of emotion. But what about interest, boredom, hope, frustration, and lust? The fact is that even emotion researchers don't agree on a definition of emotion, and many of them don't consider such feelings as love to be basic emotions. They also argue about whether there are any basic emotions, or whether, instead, there are only continuous states or just different kinds of thoughts that we label emotions. It may be a long time before researchers come up with a commonly accepted definition of emotion".
Consider that the rational being also has these emotions and human beings, contrary to popular belief, are RATIONAL BEINGS. When a man is in love, whether with another man or a woman (Please don't argue homosexuality being a sin; save that for some other time), he will do very foolish things in the name of love. I guarantee that he will do things of a most IRRATIONAL nature. Yet, this same man, in the name of REASON, will remove himself from a destructive relationship no matter HOW much he is still in love. Now, it may take years to extricate himself from the relationship and the police may eventualy be involved but extricate himself he does. Is he still in love? Of course he is, just ask him and he will tell you "of course I still love her/him; I just can't live with her/him anymore". This the nature of a rational being's love; it exists EVEN in the eventual failure of the relationship. Why is this important? As HeavySmoker pointed out, and as some believe, God is or could be, Love. If this is so then God's relationship with human beings is that of an ALL ENCOMPASSING love. As such those who have FAITH that God exists, that they love God and God loves them must question their relationship with God. In considering the realationship (with God) the person in question must ask ones self "is this a positive relationship; is this relationship harmful to me?".
The nature of RELIGION assures us that this is wrong, one must not question the relationship with God, one must have faith that God, and as an extension, his dogma, is infallable. To this end, religion, while purporting to be heralding the LOVE of GOD, brings about HATE. Hate of other religions, those who don't believe as "THEY" do and those who do not live as the particular dogma dictates. You have to look no further than your local law library to see how religion encompasses the very opposite of what God is purported to be. Religion's don't exist in love, they exist in HATE and conflict. Religion's, the world over, dictate the way a peson should live in obeisance of a certain God. There is no room for compromise, not when you are talking about religion; it's live "our" (whoever happens to be in power at the time) way or die.
This brings me to the next argument; RELIGION vs. GOD.
Invariably, when one discusses God or religion, the same arguments present themselves ad nauseum. One being, that God exists, the other being that god aka "the invisible man" does not exist. The second argument that surrounds the God vs. religion debate is which religion is praying to the RIGHT God? And, third, but MOST IMPORTANT, is the INDIVIDUAL relationship with God.

The mere act of believing or not is simplistic in nature but complex in makeing the decision to believe in God or not. Does God exist? Can I find any evidence of this being? Does the lack of evidence of existance, in itself, lend to the supposition that God does NOT exist? Or, does the lack of evidence of exitance lend itself to the supposition that God DOES exist? I can't answer this, not for anyone else anyway, the answer that FAITH is the answer is ludicrous. I have FAITH that the sun will rise tommorow, my faith is based on experience and science. but I am rational enough to know that a nuclear attack will make it irrelevant. Those who believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience, science cannot help them here. Those who do not believe in God have no choice but to base their belief in experience; science can't help them either. "My mother died; it was God's will" "My mother died; her heart stopped".

I'll skip the second argument; which religion is worshipping the correct God. It doesn't lend itself to this particular question of "Love vs. Hate and Religion vs. God". Besides, it would take me a couple of months to properly encompass that particular argument. I do, however , wish to address my arguments to the third proposition; "the individual's relationship with God".

It is this personal relationship with God that brings us to the lack of understanding between those that don't worship a God vs. those that do worship a God. What rational, faith, can exist in the worship of a being that cannot be counted on to engage us in a rational manner nor to engage us in a loving manner? Consider this, my child dies, it hurts, I ask God why, he dosen't answer. My friends and pastor tell me that it is God's will, that he, indeed, has a plan and my loss and pain is part of that plan. They go on to tell me that God still loves me, even though he allowed my most precious of possesions to die; my child, a part of me. They tell me that God may be testing my faith, that I should still continue to trust in God and to continue to have FAITH in his plan for me. Now, if I told a woman , in an abusive relationship, that her husband still loved her, that he had a plan, that he was beating the hell out of her and causing her pain just to test her love for him most of you would call me an idiot; and rightly so. The nature of RELIGION is that it trys to REMOVE the rational mind from the human being and force that person to continue in a very unpleasant and destructive relationship.

The nature of religion is that it holds God to standards we, as rational beings, would LOUDLY and FORCFULLY REJECT. Who, by a show of hands, would allow that some entity, perporting to love us would cause us pain and then have the unmitigated gall to tell us that we should just keep haveing FAITH?
Why should those that have FAITH, NOT, question their relationship with God? Will he get mad? Will he kill us? There is ONE thing and, one thing only, that religious FAITH has that no other rational relationship can ever give us; a means to live forever in happiness. It is this so-called promise that allows religion's to twist and corrupt the experience of believing in ANY GOD into just a way to control others.

Religion is not an acceptable, rational, positive relationship. Religion, extreme or otherwise, is a simple matter of using the spiritual nature of man to excise the rational, MORAL, nature of man. Speaking in VERY general terms, christians loath voodoo and witchcraft. They (christians) do their best to debunk other religious practices as evil, wrong, devil inspired (why do we need a devil?) or UNENLIGHTENED. Other religions use their dogma to control women; to keep them in their place or to use them as the scape goat of everything that goes wrong. Other religions use their religious dogma to control the lives of their parishioners or their clergy.

I debunk ALL religions as UNENLIGHTENED, I make no distinctions between any religion in this manner. All religions seek to CONTROL rational beings by the threat of everlasting terror and pain, religions use the "promise" of life everlasting to try to tear the rational mind from the human being. I have no beef with God, as such, I simply believe, and history proves me out, that religion is the baliwick of man and has little or nothing to do with a personal relationship with the God or Goddess that many would happily believe in, if not for the fear that they would involve themselves with some irrational religious doctorine.

Unregistered, you assert that you cannot prove that God exists, you assert that I cannot prove that God does not exist. But, I CAN prove, or at least bring into serious question, that God ever existed in a religious sense. Consider: the christian religion, old testament, God was a ferocious, vengeful God, he allowed NO sin to go unpunished (just ask the jews); then, from on "high" there was born a son of God and God allowed his son to be tortured and killed so that people might have a method of forgivness, so that even the most vile of sinners may have access to the "everlasting life in heaven". Is it only me that sees this as an underlying control mechanism; as a way to increase the pool of believers? Am I the only one that sees that RELIGION, at this period of world history, needed to purport some type of forgivness mechanism to continue to get people to worship a God, long since, considered to be harsh and unforgiving at the least?

I make no apologies for being a rational being. I am also a spiritual being. I believe that a rational being CAN believe in a God, it is in our nature to seek out the spiritual nature of our being and to manifest it in some way. There is NO rational being that can believe in ANY religious dogma that seeks to control a persons actions. This is contrary to our nature, our intellect and to our constitutionaly protected rights (you knew I would get the constitution in there didn't you?). God may be around somewhere, but I doubt that you will find him in any unenlightend religious text. I can find my spirit in the simple act of fishing. It is one of my most favorite things to do. Not sport fishing, just baiting a hook in a shady piece of water, somewhere far enough from others that what I am smoking won't be a concern.

The nature of man suggests that we are born moral beings, with the ability to think and act in a rational manner. We are capable of abstract thought, thus, leading us to also be spirtual beings. To consider the "WHY" "WHERE" and "HOW" of our existance. To ask these questions leads us to try to find a rational answer to them. The belief of a supreme being is not inherently irrational, but to build religion around this belief, especially the religions that man has built, IS IRRATIONAL.

It is only with religious fervor and hatred that a plant was made illegal, it is only with the hatred of religious dogma that women are treated as second class citizens. The mere fact that women are not, mostly, treated that way in western society's is that our society insisted on a more ENLIGHTEND treatment of women; in direct opposition to religious dogma. It is only with religous hatred that same sex lover's are treated as less than human. We, those on the cannabis boards, constantly look for enlightenment from our politicians, in the hope that one day we can all sit down at the same lake side and smoke the biggest, fattest, dooby every rolled, without fear of being Joe Bob's sexual plaything. I think that this will never happen and the reason is in our faces evey day; RELIGION. Only when religion is made to take a backseat to the needs of the individual. Only when religion becomes ENLIGHTEND enough to accept God as a loving being and not as the means to control others will we be free from the religious tyranny that has taken over the world. When a law is no longer based on "protecting me from me" and is NOT based in some religious dogma will we, those without FAITH, be able to seriously consider the question of God. Until that time, we look to other areas of our spirituality and hope that is enough, because the alternative is linked to religous dogma and religous dogma is, invariably, linked to hatred.

I wonder if anyone will actualy read this?"


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #1316928 - 02/18/03 02:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Its never too late to back out on your faith in "God."

There is no punishment for that unless you come up with one to enact upon yourself


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Strumpling]
    #1317041 - 02/18/03 03:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Doh! You guys do realize that arguing about the general existence of a specific God (The Christian God), based on just a few christian theologies. There are those of use who study the texts, and learn from them based on our experiences and what the texts mean to us directly. I don't think religion can be "taught". I believe it is to be sought and learned. Peace.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: chunder]
    #1317085 - 02/18/03 03:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

hey i didn't argue with anybody..


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Strumpling]
    #1317187 - 02/18/03 04:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, but I know God's real. He spoke to me before.

Edit to add:

He's real. More real than I am. I'm just angry with Him now. I think it was a crummy thing to do to create people like me when I never wanted created and then to give me rules and promise to torture people like me that break them when the people that if they had a choice about being created wouldn't have been. Why couldn't I have been an aborted baby or somthing so I'd be in heaven now enjoying glories beyond description. I would have preferred that to living in the world and being here. And now that I'm here well that's life and life isn't fair. If it was everyone would be aborted and go straight to heaven instead of most people ending up tortured in hell. Kind of makes me think that God is an egotistical narcicist, like I said in my first post.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (02/18/03 04:38 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1317210 - 02/18/03 04:37 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You were alone, right? You're sure it wasn't your brain?

OK then. Yeah..... that God guy sure is an unfair asshole isn't he?

Its never too late to stop living by his rules - these punishments you speak of.. people can follow all of god's rules and still get fucked-over you know.

lol I'll stop after this post :smile: Good luck man


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (02/18/03 04:39 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Strumpling]
    #1317225 - 02/18/03 04:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sure it was God and not my brain. It was about a year and a half ago and it never happened before or since even when I begged God to talk to me more. I guess it would be to easy in life if God would always talk to you. I heard God's voice and it didn't come from my brain, it came right out of my heart, it was the most unexpected thing. He spoke out of my heart, in my chest, literally. I wish God would talk to me more but he won't.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: mr freedom]
    #1317426 - 02/18/03 06:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Mr Freedom, that was so long I didn't read it at first, but I finally just read it. I also despise organized religion. It was a good read.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #1318740 - 02/19/03 08:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

They say that God made us in his image, and we are all egotistical narcissists; so this view of God seems correct to me.

-RebelSteve


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Namaste.


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OfflineDivineSight1111
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Strumpling]
    #22967343 - 03/02/16 11:08 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

That God is the political version of God in order to control the masses through fear. It is a misrepresentation of God.

The Christians got it all wrong.

Just watch zeitgeist:



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OfflineRadpollo13


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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: DivineSight1111]
    #22973276 - 03/04/16 05:27 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Religion is just literature rooting from customs that varies through cultures. To put it as simple as possible, the bible is a "how to" book on life or the book of guidelines one must live by to be "proper and sane". I believe God to be a justification of the ideologies of a cult or secret society that was attempting to implement a new moral code, way of life, or whatever you interpret it as. it may have been fueled by malice or good. I have very few thoughts on that.

Either way, knowledge is power and maybe these individuals were more enlightened and that gave them an upper hand. Facilitating proving to people that they what they were brewing was actually pretty alright.

People were told that this entity (God) controls destiny itself and created earth, God is untouchable and its even a sin to try to visualize him/her. He/she lives in the clouds in his/her haven were only the most proper of individuals living by these codes may enter after your mortal life.

This was quite heavy to lay on anyone especially back in the day... naturally this causes a lot of misinterpretation and confusion among society and demonstrated by history, it became a near obsession opposed to believes and causes many wars and misfortunes and still is up to this day. It also has given people peace of mind and a sense of security aswell as well as a backbone, believing there is a god watching over and angles to make sure it all runs smooth.

My thoughts and they may very well change, so let me hear yours!


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the answers are often times found in the question


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Offlinefalcon
In the green


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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Radpollo13]
    #22973414 - 03/04/16 06:15 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty sure there's lots of gods, the powerful ones are all fiercely aesthetic/ascetic and most of the powerful ones are jealous and vengeful if they think you aren't fiercely aesthetic/ascetic. The best course in this life is to avoid powerful gods unless you have a will like steel.


Edited by falcon (03/04/16 08:23 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: falcon]
    #22974535 - 03/05/16 03:33 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

WOW! This thread showed up in my recent threads when I logged in. I made it 13 years ago. Thank you for bringing this back to the top, its amazing to see how much my views have changed over the years.

I'll add my current opinions for contrast with my 13 years ago self...

I try to never speak God's name except with that reverence due from the creature to His creator, I implore His aid in all my undertakings, and I esteem Him the source of all good.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Thinking about the nature of God [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22990016 - 03/09/16 08:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

:cheers:


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