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OfflineCubieman420
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I just don't see how people can believe in a god..
    #1709660 - 07/12/03 09:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I don't mean to offend anyone, this is my personal belief. I don't see how any well educated person could believe that there is any type of higher power or a god. The thought that there is some mystical figure watching over humanity just doesn't seem to agree with me. I am 18 years old and as of now I have had no sign that would make me believe in a god. I went to church with my parents up until I was about 15, I was confirmed as well. I guess back then I did think there might be a god, but that was just because I was going with the flow, basically just being fed religion and not really thinking about it. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I just seem to "see through" religion, there is no god, there is no sin, there isn't anything except humanity simply existing due to evolution. I believe that "the masses" believe in some sort of god simply to answer simple questions, like how did humans come about? or what happens when you die? that is just my take on religion. Peace.


--------------------
"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004


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OfflineRob_K
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1709696 - 07/12/03 09:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I'm with you on that one.. Have you read any John-Paul Sartre? Have a look at his essay, "Existentialism & Humanism" it goes pretty deep into what your saying. You can probably find it somewhere on the internet although its easier to read in print..


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-{ divined from the mind }--

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1709718 - 07/12/03 09:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have personally experienced God on 5g of shrooms, and let me start off by telling you what God is not: God is not some old bearded man in the sky with a list of 10 things that we are never to do. God is in everything and God is everything. God is a higher power uniting the universe. God is the Atman--the All-that-is. God is a power greater than I can put into words. If you don't know what I'm talking about, take 5g of shrooms(or more, if you have high tolerance), and maybe you'll understand.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1709758 - 07/12/03 10:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

nicely put silver


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Infrared]
    #1709778 - 07/12/03 10:14 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"The thought that there is some mystical figure watching over humanity just doesn't seem to agree with me"

Wht makes you think god gives a fuck about us?

We are just scum on his boots...


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1709791 - 07/12/03 10:16 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

we are not scum on his boots,let me refer back to silversouls post
everything=god god=everything


--------------------
When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry:rainbowdrink:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1709794 - 07/12/03 10:17 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

so if God = Everything, then why do people continue to use the ARCHAIC word "God" to describe what should be "Everything."


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Strumpling]
    #1709799 - 07/12/03 10:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see how an intelligent person can not think there exists a higher power, that life is just a bunch of random events.


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Offlinenubious
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1709811 - 07/12/03 10:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cubieman420 said:
I don't mean to offend anyone, this is my personal belief. I don't see how any well educated person could believe that there is any type of higher power or a god. The thought that there is some mystical figure watching over humanity just doesn't seem to agree with me. I am 18 years old and as of now I have had no sign that would make me believe in a god. I went to church with my parents up until I was about 15, I was confirmed as well. I guess back then I did think there might be a god, but that was just because I was going with the flow, basically just being fed religion and not really thinking about it. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I just seem to "see through" religion, there is no god, there is no sin, there isn't anything except humanity simply existing due to evolution. I believe that "the masses" believe in some sort of god simply to answer simple questions, like how did humans come about? or what happens when you die? that is just my take on religion. Peace.




I never went to church with my parents, but I was forced to go to Catholic school from grade 4 to 11, which involved me taking part in church. From my experience, Catholosism is one of the biggest jokes in western society... It sickens me to think that i'm a confirmed catholic.. Baptised and all.. I'm not tryin' to cuss on god, but they even teach you in school about how the Roman Catholic Church fucked with people back in the 16th century... If you KNOW that your religon has fucked with people in the past, yet you still follow the teachings of those people.. Don't you think there's flaws?

I still think organized religon is the biggest flaw of man-kind.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1709828 - 07/12/03 10:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"I don't see how an intelligent person can not think there exists a higher power, that life is just a bunch of random events."

I hope I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that people who don't like the word God or the term "Higher Power" or whatever, in your eyes, should be unintelligent?

The way I see it there's no "higher power" or "god" or whatever, there's just "It," and we're all pieces of it - what would make something we haven't yet discovered "higher" in terms of "power?"

And I don't think randomness plays a roll in this thing at ALL.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (07/12/03 10:28 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1709836 - 07/12/03 10:30 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Gentle friend, It's easy to believe in God or in the gods. You just do the same way that athiests don't. Personally, I don't see how someone can authoritivly dismiss the existance of divine entitie(s) with no evidence. I can certainly understand skepticism, but if you want to be purely logical about it why should someone either accept or deny the the existance of divine entities with no evidence. From this POV the proper belief system is agnosticism.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1709977 - 07/12/03 11:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Earth_Droid said:
I don't see how an intelligent person can not think there exists a higher power, that life is just a bunch of random events.




Einstein, and tons of physicists/mathematicians before him, or even St. Augustine or the philosopher Huw Price conceive of a universe that it is finished from beginning to end and that we should think about it as if it were an object we could step outside of and view whole. This certainly fits nicely with the interpretation of quantum mechanics produced by Cramer. In this case the universe is not a bunch of random events.

I always find it interesting that a huge amount of people find god during times of trouble and weakness. A lot of people found god in boot camp when I was there and I have to admit that I felt a strange something when I went to a service to get out of cleaning the barracks. My mind was in turmoil at the time per the design of boot camp. I was having deja vu's several times a day and dreaming like never before or since. I'm glad I didn't succumb to it.



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Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (07/12/03 11:34 PM)


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1710056 - 07/12/03 11:58 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Faith. It's that simple.

I try not to believe in anything, and for the moment I just assume that what I observe is correct, because I have no other reference point. IOW, I assume science is correct (that what I observe is generally the same as what others observe). If I were to say that I believed in science, this would still require faith.


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OfflineCubieman420
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1710666 - 07/13/03 03:46 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

First off let me remind you this is my PERSONAL OPINION, I do not need proof of anything, btw...where is your proof that there is some source of "energy" or "power"? What it comes down to is that we think differently, and nothing will change that. And yes, I have eaten over 5g's on a few occasions, both times I felt EXTREMELY connected to nature, and just life in general, however I still felt the same way I do about religion. I feel that my mind is clear and I am seeing the world for it is. Evolution is sure amazing. And no, I do not believe that people that believe in god are unintelligent, sorry if it came off that way.


--------------------
"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1710936 - 07/13/03 08:02 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I believe that "the masses" believe in some sort of god simply to answer simple questions, like how did humans come about ? or what happens when you die ? that is just my take on religion. Peace.

These aren't simple questions as no human can answer them. Your right all of us deep down wonder these unanswerable questions, because they don't fit with our cut and dry exsistance.
You'v got to realize that Nobody knows shit about what goes on before and after our lives. You haven't the experience to know all that. You can call it "evolution" but its something extrodanary that we can't even begin to grasp scientificly or emotionaly.


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Anonymous

Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Dreamer987]
    #1711018 - 07/13/03 10:52 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

where does the feeling of LOVE come from when one "accepts god into their heart".... people feel it, and it is very real, much like being in love with another person. to most people, it is easy to believe in something with no evidence, and then the love they feel afterwards seals the cake.

how could there be no god, if i feel the LOVE he gives me everyday?



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OfflineZahid
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1711705 - 07/13/03 04:56 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

There was columnist who wrote an article in the local province-based newspaper on religion and how he doesn't understand why any intelligent, educated person would adhere to an "organized religion". To me, such assertions are rather arrogant.

Looking back on my childhood recently I came to the realization that I have always had faith in God. Even in my darker teenage years when I was listening to death metal. On my last trip I started having these mundane memories come rushing back. I recalled once when I was 12 or 13, I was fishing at a lake near my grandmothers and my reel became tangled, and my rod snapped in half. I remember saying God's name in vein, and then after cooling down a bit, asking for forgiveness. Or when I was 16, getting drunk with some friends in my room - I refused to do it in the presence of my Bible. I eventually became serious with God with my conversion to Islam some years later.

Point is, I have always been in awe of THE Creator. I didn't even consider myself a Christian (or I didn't think of it in terms of labels then) when I very well was one. I have compared my upbringing with that of a friend of mine, who is a staunch unbeliever. Like me, he was brought to church until a certain age. Unlike me, he never had the least bit of grace in his heart.

When I first did LSD that is when I began to think, on a highly intelligent level that even took me by surprise as to what kind of realities I became to dawn on. I saw everything as a process, with Ultimate Reality - God as its only source. When I announced to my friends and family I declared my faith as a Muslim most were dumbfounded, my own boss even commented "Don't tell me you joined that bandwagon.."

God has always been there, and He will always be there. He is the reality of all things, and when I apprehend the world around me, I find myself thinking "I just don't see how people can not believe in God. His signs are in anything and everything".

It's like the famous philosophers throughout history - they're divided, into those who are religious, and those who are secular. Everywhere through the many walks of life, the many degrees of intelligence and wisdom, people will either be in awe of the Creator, or they will see the idea as nothing more than ancient fables.

Talk to some of the believers on this board, do they seem uneducated to you?

Quote:

Cubieman420 said:
I don't mean to offend anyone, this is my personal belief. I don't see how any well educated person could believe that there is any type of higher power or a god. The thought that there is some mystical figure watching over humanity just doesn't seem to agree with me. I am 18 years old and as of now I have had no sign that would make me believe in a god. I went to church with my parents up until I was about 15, I was confirmed as well. I guess back then I did think there might be a god, but that was just because I was going with the flow, basically just being fed religion and not really thinking about it. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, and I just seem to "see through" religion, there is no god, there is no sin, there isn't anything except humanity simply existing due to evolution. I believe that "the masses" believe in some sort of god simply to answer simple questions, like how did humans come about? or what happens when you die? that is just my take on religion. Peace.




--------------------


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OfflineZahid
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: ]
    #1711719 - 07/13/03 05:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Muslims call that feeling dhikr, the remembrance of God. Sufis are known to have different kinds of rituals of dancing and chanting in order to invoke dhikr. For me, certain types of music help induce dhikr. There are even 'drought periods' where I ago a long time without dhikr as I get caught up in earthly affairs. The remembrance of God is a small taste of what eternal life is - I think of heaven as a place with the most intense, never ending dhikr; and that is all I want. I've even seen dhikr live on television - from Catholics crying at the World Youth Day last summer in Toronto, to CNN's coverage of last years Hajj, which showed an old Muslim woman at the Kaaba crying, chanting "Allahu akbar!" - God is Great!
There is nothing like the sweet love of the ONE, The Merciful.

Quote:

LoOnEr said:
where does the feeling of LOVE come from when one "accepts god into their heart".... people feel it, and it is very real, much like being in love with another person. to most people, it is easy to believe in something with no evidence, and then the love they feel afterwards seals the cake.

how could there be no god, if i feel the LOVE he gives me everyday?






--------------------


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OnlinetrendalM
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Cubieman420]
    #1712076 - 07/13/03 07:26 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Use eductation, then, and see if there is a "higher power"  :wink:

1. Entropy is always increasing in a system.

2. The universe is not yet at a state of total disorder, ie: there are stars and planets and people and other complex subsystems, thus it cannot have existed "forever", thus it must have come into existence at some point in the past.

3. Causality is a basic principle of the universe. Every effect has a cause. The creation, or birth, of the universe must have had a cause to satisfy causality. It stands to reason that this cause must have been, in some way, "greater" than the universe itself; no part of the universe could have caused itself to exist.

Conclusion: there must be a "greater power".

Just another possibility  :wink:


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: trendal]
    #1712145 - 07/13/03 07:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

A "greater" power? LOL you people are gullible.
The earth is flat ya know.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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