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 Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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 Re: How many of you believe in god?  [Re: Hypnotic]
#463342 - 11/19/01 11:10 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Would you please tell me what it is that you are denying, what exactly is this God that you are denying? What is God?
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 MrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Adom]
#463758 - 11/19/01 07:18 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, saying everyone is wrong because they are naive is being very naive. How can you say that there is no God, no Jesus son of God, no Heaven, no Hell. You have no proof one way or the other. You are afraid of dying, obviously, and must accept that you don't have a fucking clue whats gonna happen, and worrying isn't gonna get anything done. People made religion to explain why things happen, just like people made science. What's wrong with someone believing something you don't believe in? If someone truly thinks christianity is the way to go, and they follow its teachings the way they should be followed, what harm are they causing? People say really religious people are the worst people in the world, but I bet for every hypocritcal religious person, there's an atheist who think its ok to be an asshole cause life doesn't matter.
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Hypnotic
newbie
Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 30
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I'm being misunderstood. No one is wrong because we will
never know. What I'm saying though, is I pity people who
devote there whole life to religon and then when they're
gone, who's to say it was even worth anything? that's why I
don't like religon but still believe in something. I don't
believe I have to do everything right aand say certain
prayers. I just live my life the way I feel comfortable
with and hope there's something or someone waiting for me
when my time comes to die. Sorry if it sounded like I was
accusing someone of being wrong, these are all just our own
opinions,
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I said no to drugs, they just wouldn't listen.
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Felstorm
member
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 105
Loc: North, Cold North, Very C...
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Adom]
#464084 - 11/20/01 12:11 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webcom.com%2Fway%2Fintro.html
I thought this was very interesting, although the person who wrote it comes off as a femminazi closer to the end of her chapters...
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To do a thing and know no better is ignorance.
It is an act of kindness to educate the ignorant.
To do a wrong thing intentionally, is evil and wicked.
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oneoverzero
veteran
Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 758
Loc: Cyber Space
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Hypnotic]
#464206 - 11/20/01 03:35 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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pssst: the big doughnut...
Do I beleive in god? Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Zeus? Did they believe in god? Does a baby, just before birth, believe in life? Does a person, just before regeneration (spiritual rebirth) believe in the sacred? Do I believe in all things here and now?
I think the prob you face is common to most. Who to trust to tell me what to believe? Who not to trust? Who knows best? Who knows just enough to cause trouble? How can you know what to believe? Too?
I could say, "you are only ready to receive, this much, understanding for now - what you are most comfortable with in the time being - as we all are"... but, I would only be rephrasing beliefs from three other people, who knew - in my own way with words.
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[red]0011 0001 0010 1111 0011 0000[/red]
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Axiom420
ADDICT
Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 202
Loc: in the forest, behind the...
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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 Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: MrKurtz]
#464449 - 11/20/01 11:21 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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"I AM THAT I AM"
God, in his perfect existance, identified himself in this way: with a logical conundrum, neither provable nor deniable.
With understanding given by God, wrot by education and personal motivation, examination of the Bible leads me to only one conclusion, that it is TRUE. My entire life is like a trip, I am never bored, refuse to give in to fear, and am truely amazed at the faith given to those who are so simple, of which I am but one.
Jesus is Lord.
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein
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a3d0a3m
newbie
Registered: 03/17/01
Posts: 28
Last seen: 21 years, 7 months
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*delete* [Re: Felstorm]
#465215 - 11/21/01 12:41 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by a3d0a3m
Edited by a3d0a3m (11/30/01 04:08 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: a3d0a3m]
#465340 - 11/21/01 05:26 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Why then post anything in a sprituality forum? Are you seeking to be convinced otherwise? A very tiny percentage of humanity insists in the absence of a 'Transcendenz,' an 'Ultimate Concern,' a 'Summum Bonum' of existence. The only alternative to the recognition of 'Being,' with a capital 'B,' is crude and shallow materialism in one form or another.
Just because your faith and understanding did not develop along with your other intangible qualities is not a reason to proclaim atheism in a spirituality forum. Perhaps if you learned something up-to-date about Judaeo-Christian writings, say, from John Shelby Spong's 'Liberating the Gospels,' you could shed once and for all a childish image-based conception of Ultimate Reality and come to understand what was intended by ancient authors.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: oneoverzero]
#465382 - 11/21/01 07:37 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think the prob you face is common to most. Who to trust to tell me what to believe? Who not to trust? Who knows best?
Why believe in any sort of myth at all?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 days, 13 hours
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: a3d0a3m]
#465467 - 11/21/01 09:41 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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mormons started in early 1800s in upstate NY by joseph smith; first temple was in kirtland OH; smith & 2 lieutenants were lynched in illinois; most of the followers went with brigham young to utah territory (LDS) & some stayed in missouri with joseph smith jr (reform LDS)...
for "gnostic influences" on american religious expression, see harold bloom...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 days, 13 hours
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enjoyed the book !
hope you are well...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 days, 13 hours
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Swami]
#465480 - 11/21/01 09:48 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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"paging joseph campbell"
(hmm, he seems to have stepped out for a moment...)
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Anonymous
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 Post deleted by Anno [Re: gnrm23]
#465488 - 11/21/01 09:53 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: ]
#465530 - 11/21/01 10:33 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I do too and these post get no where.
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Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Swami]
#465535 - 11/21/01 10:38 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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> I think the prob you face is common to most. Who to trust to tell me what to believe? Who not to trust? Who knows best?
There is no reason to look any where but inward to answer this question, no books, no preachers, no churches, no parents, just inward.
< Why believe in any sort of myth at all?
Your idea of a myth and my idea of myth are different, you only believe in words, I know words to be sign post that can't explain most of the good stuff in this life.
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oneoverzero
veteran
Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 758
Loc: Cyber Space
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: Swami]
#465693 - 11/21/01 02:34 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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"paging Joseph Cambell" - thanks man.
SWAMI!!! Listen! Myths are NOT to be believed like believing a scientific journal... they are highly information-dense units of wisdom.
In the U.S. we DON'T have myths anymore, well, except maybe Star Wars, which Joseph Cambell consulted with George Lucas to create.
Myths at one time in history for us, and still for many cultures are the "living libraries" where all things knowable can be found.
Btw, Puuuuuuuulease spare me the barrage of quoting arguments...
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D_Tox
Boddhisattva
Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 239
Loc: Lab 23
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: oneoverzero]
#465957 - 11/21/01 07:20 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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agree oneoverzero. What gets me, is why go into a conversation about spirituality, with the assertations that some other's idea is wrong. All you are doing is creating conflict. If you are going to discuss spirituality with someone, you need to at least 'step into their shoes' for a minute. Just accept their perception for the moment being to see where they are coming from. Then you are in a position to talk so that they'll understand what you are saying. You will be much more likely to add to or modify their perception, and both parties come out the better.
I'm sick of people just jumping in with "This is all utter bullshit!" These are spiritual and philosophical discussions, not science. I get enough of "that bullshit" in school. Please spare me from it here.
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D_Tox
to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened
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Olgualion
Shaman-In-Training
Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 1,253
Loc: Currently Earth...
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 Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: D_Tox]
#466017 - 11/21/01 08:48 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe in the power of belief!
All religions are correct so long as there are people believing in it!
And if you have enough faith and belief in ANYTHING it will just plain BE!
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Study the past...
See the future...
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oneoverzero
veteran
Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 758
Loc: Cyber Space
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: D_Tox]
#466063 - 11/21/01 09:35 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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D_Tox, that is very well said. I suppose, as you mention, "stepping into their shoes" gets easier and easier the more mature and knowledgeable a person becomes.
The opposite usually ain't so. It seems those who don't know, yet talk big like they know have a hard time doing this.
On the subject: MarkostheGnostic is one of the best read people we have in this forum - and one of the most helpful, always suggesting books (since we don't have myths, we have books). Well, he once suggested Persephone's Quest: entheogens and the origins of religion by Wasson, Kramrisch, Ott, and Ruck. Well, I actually bought the book and am reading it! It's very well written and I'm learning more than I ever hoped for...
People, listen to your elders - they know what's up. You can generally feel it if they are lying - otherwise, they are telling you something only to benefit you...
those are my shoes I'm standing in saying this
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[red]0011 0001 0010 1111 0011 0000[/red]
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MrKurtz
enthusiast
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 21 years, 6 months
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Re: How many of you believe in god? [Re: oneoverzero]
#466089 - 11/21/01 10:08 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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"In the U.S. we DON'T have myths anymore, well, except maybe Star Wars, which Joseph Cambell consulted with George Lucas to create. "
Hehe, you really believe that? How about the myth of the "founder of america" christopher columbus? A seedy punk who landed somewhere in the gulf of mexico or whatever... is considered one of the greatest national heroes. This war on the Taliban, people everywhere saying they hate us because we are free and they aren't. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact we killed millions of Iraqi's and supported there greatest enemy Israel. Plenty of people still believe in religion, even america. People believe lots of bullshit... it just hasn't become known widespread to be bullshit, thats why we don't call them myths.
As for what someone said about the christian god being a giant guy with white hair sitting on a cloud.... thats what a few idiots said who wanted to try to comprehend god. God is supposed to be incomprehensible. People tried to explain it to others (educated idiots explaining to peasants) and made up all this bullshit about a big guy in a cloud with harps and so on. Anyways, people take religion to literally and make it look bad. Sorta like how some people abuse drugs and give all drug users a bad name huh?
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