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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,397
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1712316 - 07/13/03 07:01 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

From this POV the proper belief system is agnosticism.




I also believe so, at least it is the most humble of all.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1712352 - 07/13/03 07:15 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

I said it's a possibility  :wink:

And the earth isn't flat. Don't be silly  :smirk:  :wink: :grin:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineRANKSRAGGY68
Scooby SnacksIndeed!!

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 187
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: trendal]
    #1712506 - 07/13/03 08:01 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

I like a different approach to this,

To paraphrase:

I've always liked the idea that we have always existed and will always exist as individual souls. We buy a "ticket" to see a "movie" because our eternal souls are bored, or because we feel the need to experience all. Why not? We have loads of time on our hands. Anyway, it seems that we tend to forget that it is just a movie and we are so caught up in the plot that we can only see the movie. When you die, you can float around a bit, or do whatever eternal beings do, or you can buy a ticket to another movie. Cool.

Richard Bach "Illusions" If you haven't read it, do.

-RR68


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"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."

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OfflineJohnnyR
mi cixelsyd

Registered: 07/07/02
Posts: 2,187
Loc: a hot place
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: RANKSRAGGY68]
    #1712746 - 07/13/03 09:28 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

i dont believe in religion...  but im very spriritual...  mostly because of shrooms...  i have my own god...  everyone has their own god...  unless they dont believe in god  :wink:


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OfflineHannibal88
Aryan Psychonaut
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 71
Loc: farfromvalhalla
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1712753 - 07/13/03 09:31 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
"The thought that there is some mystical figure watching over humanity just doesn't seem to agree with me"

Wht makes you think god gives a fuck about us?

We are just scum on his boots...




If there is a god, I'd say this is probably true... but in light of how shitty the world is today, how is it logical to assume that there is some almighty, all-powerful entity watching over us at all? Even if he's ignoring us, it seems like he set us up pretty poorly. And if there _is_ a god running this all, I'll say this: he's not one I want to worship.

Heil Odin!

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: trendal]
    #1713056 - 07/13/03 11:16 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
3. Causality is a basic principle of the universe. Every effect has a cause. The creation, or birth, of the universe must have had a cause to satisfy causality. It stands to reason that this cause must have been, in some way, "greater" than the universe itself; no part of the universe could have caused itself to exist.

Conclusion: there must be a "greater power".




Every effect has a cause yes, however the reasoning gets tricky when you get to the "beginning" of the universe. Do not imagine time as a straight line. Imagine time as existing as a graph on a sphere, much like geographical co-ordinates on the earth. We will call the "East/West" direction "Imaginary Time", which is time that we don't observe. Everyday time that we observe, as embodied by increasing entropy, runs in the "North/South" direction. If we take time = 0 (the "beginning" of the universe to occur at the co-ordinates (0,0) ("the North Pole"), then asking "What cause before time = 0 caused the universe?" is as nonsensical as asking "What's North of the North pole?"

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OfflineMeThoD
MeThoD

Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 568
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1713180 - 07/14/03 12:26 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

i guess people feel like they are safe in the long run... belief in a god gives a kind comfort to some people... cause dont you think its kinda sad that death is the end of it all... if death is the end for me, then life is pointless isnt it?


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Every empty bowl must be filled, and a full bowl must always be emptied.

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OfflineRANKSRAGGY68
Scooby SnacksIndeed!!

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 187
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: MeThoD]
    #1713322 - 07/14/03 01:20 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Pointless?

That's the negative way to look at it I suppose. If this is all there is then it is really important to live a good and full life. IF you wake up, go to work, come home, then sit in front of the tube, rinse and repeat ad infinitum, then yes, it is all pointless.

I have a gut feeling that this mortal coil isn't all there is to it. But if I'm wrong, I won't care. It IS important for me to live it out and find out what I can see and experience, not just sit here as the days go by.

-RR68


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"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition."

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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
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Loc: Europe
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: RANKSRAGGY68]
    #1713390 - 07/14/03 02:05 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

I think this is a better way to phrase it: if death is the end for me, then living life for me is pointless.

The ego does a good job of making you stay alive, but life sure will seem pointless if the only purpose in life is to please the ego.

And the idea of an afterlife that has exactly the same compartmentalization of consciousness into individual souls as we have seen in our current lives, sounds to me like nothing more than napoleonic plans made by the ego. :wink: 

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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: MeThoD]
    #1713403 - 07/14/03 02:16 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

In response to: i guess people feel like they are safe in the long run... belief in a god gives a kind comfort to some people... cause dont you think its kinda sad that death is the end of it all... if death is the end for me, then life is pointless isnt it?




What's pointless to one man may be meaningful to another. To some men a belief in God gives comfort, to other men it imparts a dark sense of forboding and inevitable disaster. I'm one of the latter. I believe in the God of the Bible. Believing is all I can do, I don't know how to not believe. I almost wish I didn't believe. It would make life easier to not have fear of the Biblegod. I fear him for he is terrible. I do believe in the afterlife as it is written of in the Bible, but deep down I hope that death is final, and there is no eternal heaven/slavery or hell.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Anonymous

Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1713535 - 07/14/03 05:27 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

its easy not to believe, just use logic and reason.

fear is a terrible thing to live your life by.

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OfflineQuintessence
I am Hydrogen

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 791
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: ]
    #1713563 - 07/14/03 06:13 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

People say there has to be a god, cause *something* had to create us. Well that arguement doesn't make any sense at all because how did GOD get there? Wouldn't something have to create him?  :nut:

I think anyone who believes in god is crazy imo. But uh 'to each his own' or whatever. 


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Strumpling]
    #1713786 - 07/14/03 09:31 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:

And I don't think randomness plays a roll in this thing at ALL.






it does on the quantum level.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #1713985 - 07/14/03 11:34 AM (21 years, 16 days ago)

Time is most certainly not a straight line  :wink:

It bends and twists and warps around as a part of spacetime. Constantly fluttering in the quantum, but apparently "smooth" to the human existence.

For some of us, we may begin to see first-hand the elasticity of time within our lives  :smile:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinebaraka
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: trendal]
    #1714816 - 07/14/03 03:24 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

*points to sig*


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This is the only time I really feel alive.

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Offlinewietstocker
product ofevolution

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 319
Loc: Cranium, PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 21 days
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: nubious]
    #1715319 - 07/14/03 05:28 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

Greetings everyone!!

I was never a deeply religious youth, but never seemed to feel comfortable with accepting that I didn't believe in a Christian God. Now that I have grown more confidence in myself, I realize that I consider myself an agnostic. Agnosticism is a form of atheism and by definition means: one who believes that the question of whether a higher power exists is unsolved and insoluble. I consider myself a freethinker and this belief seems the best fit, neither accepting or rejecting any possibility.

As Thomas Jefferson once said, "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."


Woohoooo on my first post!!


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Echoes

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: wietstocker]
    #1715334 - 07/14/03 05:32 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

Welcome to S&P, wietstocker.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Sclorch]
    #1715701 - 07/14/03 07:20 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

Welcome !

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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OfflineCubieman420
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Registered: 03/20/02
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Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: Sclorch]
    #1715703 - 07/14/03 07:20 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

very nice posts, but yet I am still convinced there is no type of higher power/god. Another arguement against religion (not a very solid one, but yet an arguement) would be be, there are hundreds of different religions, how can one group claim that they are correct while another feels that they are correct? I know a lot of religions have the same basis, but some are a night and day difference. For those of you that believe in god, answer me this, what "signs" have you had during your life that there is a god? (and I don't care to hear about tripping) Or do you believe because you feel it is the correct thing to do? Peace.


--------------------
"...now waters run free, no more fish in the sea..."
1983-2004

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: I just don't see how people can believe in a god.. [Re: trendal]
    #1715812 - 07/14/03 07:45 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

Maybe time isn't even a differentiable function.  Maybe it's discontinuous.  :wink:

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