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 blewmeanie
 
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: 
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 Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics  [Re: BlueCoyote]
#8556109 - 06/23/08 08:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nope, there are still plenty of references to reincarnation spread throughout the new, and old testament. If you ever run into a hasidic (sp?) jew, take the opportunity to discuss their view of the afterlife. The Talmud can also be fascinating, if you can find any of it translated into english.
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 dill705
Amazed
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 3,779
Loc: The Cat's Cradle
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: blewmeanie]
#8556607 - 06/23/08 11:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wish I had gotten into this thread earlier. Alot of interesting stuff has been brought up.
For a year I believed (in the agnostic sense of suspended belief) that if "God" was real, "God" would be defined as what started the big bang, much like another poster said a couple pages back.
Then I took a philosophy class and learned that a "true" agnostic not only takes no stance, but as a part of his ethics chooses to not even concern himself with theoretical issues such as God. Now I'm atheist.
In my old "belief" I would have said God isn't like what the majority think of. Now I have a more grown up idea of it. It wouldn't be called God at all, but a force of nature, or at least something along that line.
I feel that that is the only way God will be argued for in the future, but as I just said, I would assign this as another force (like gravity) to think on and break down with the power of our intellect and tools.
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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.
-Icelander-
I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!
~dill705~
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Crasher
αἱρετίζω
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 6,220
Loc: Tardy to the Party
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8556778 - 06/24/08 12:22 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
I am totally stupefied by Christians. Which part is difficult for them to grok:
Premise: Jesus can heal any illness for those who have faith in him.
Christians claim to believe in Jesus.
Christian health is somewhat worse than atheists/agnostics which is TOTALLY counter to the premise.
Where is the cognizant dissonance?
Jesus is not a manifesting part of the Christian godhead that descends upon the throngs of southern baptists in America to cure them. His life, death, and resurrection were sufficient for the purpose of the redemption of sin.
If you can provide any scriptural foundation for your premise that Jesus would continue to heal the sick after his resurrection, please post it.
The Christian God, if anything, demonstrates throughout scripture that you have the ultimate choice in your life. He doesn't stop the killing, raping, warmongering, and other atrocities in the world because interference in choice and free will is the negation of it. Why would he cure a fat person's diabetes?
I'm pretty sure it is well documented that you're not supposed to test the work of god by relying on it after you fuck up, either.
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Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
Edited by Crasher (06/24/08 12:52 AM)
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober
Registered: 05/12/08
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: blewmeanie]
#8557559 - 06/24/08 08:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Considering Jesus seems to have supported the concept of reincarnation by identifying John The Baptist as Elijah, I'd say that is a plausible answer to that particular question.
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: blewmeanie]
#8557571 - 06/24/08 08:43 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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And here we have jesus telling us we can do anything.
I'm a novice to the whole field but, isn't this statement supported by quantum physics?
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: TheHappieHippies]
#8557583 - 06/24/08 08:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, the conceptualized mathematical absurdities we find on the subatomic scale do not directly correlate to reality.
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober
Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 814
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: blewmeanie]
#8557598 - 06/24/08 08:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, the conceptualized mathematical absurdities we find on the subatomic scale do not directly correlate to reality.
Hmm, so you are saying that elephants really can turn invisible and I'm not completely crazy?
But seriously I have no idea what that means, and honestly I made that statement based off my limited understanding of the book "What the Bleep do We Know"
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: TheHappieHippies]
#8557600 - 06/24/08 08:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Basically, its just math....although Ive got a few mushrooms that would disagree with me.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: Crasher]
#8558120 - 06/24/08 11:54 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crasher said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
I am totally stupefied by Christians. Which part is difficult for them to grok:
Premise: Jesus can heal any illness for those who have faith in him.
Christians claim to believe in Jesus.
Christian health is somewhat worse than atheists/agnostics which is TOTALLY counter to the premise.
Where is the cognizant dissonance?
Jesus is not a manifesting part of the Christian godhead that descends upon the throngs of southern baptists in America to cure them. His life, death, and resurrection were sufficient for the purpose of the redemption of sin.
If you can provide any scriptural foundation for your premise that Jesus would continue to heal the sick after his resurrection, please post it.
The Christian God, if anything, demonstrates throughout scripture that you have the ultimate choice in your life. He doesn't stop the killing, raping, warmongering, and other atrocities in the world because interference in choice and free will is the negation of it. Why would he cure a fat person's diabetes?
I'm pretty sure it is well documented that you're not supposed to test the work of god by relying on it after you fuck up, either.
Been there, done that.
Orgone refuses to support his premise.
Others have posted some citations.
The only thing I recall is some words saying "if you believe it you have it" and when moses is speaking to the folks after the exodous from egypt and telling them god would heal their diseases and keep them well.
The first is hard to understand, but just seems like some metaphysical statement, and the later is by moses, not god, and was addressing the choosen folks who were freed from egypt. I think its a stretch to say that something moses said to his wanderers, who recieved special treatment througout that has never been promised to anyone else, is somehow guarenteed, from god, to everyone.
I think its kinda silly to make a thread with an obvious premise not addressed, which you correctly identify.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Reasons why Jesus fails to heal Christian Diabetics [Re: johnm214]
#8558434 - 06/24/08 01:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Everything relevant has already been posted, your more than welcome to artfully interpret the multiple examples of word for word scripture, but its pretty poor form to continue the debate.
"faith" and honest analysis dont exactly go together. As far as any assumptions about atheist health, maybe you missed all of this from earlier in the thread.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8543739#Post8543739
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