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Offlinejennyl
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having christianity questions
    #2287625 - 01/30/04 06:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)


Hi. I am a Christian and I am considering doing ?shrooms to have a spiritual experience and enlightenment. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if their relationship with God got better, did you decide to not ?believe? anymore?? Also I was wondering if, after you had done shrooms, did your personality change (after an ego-loss or before?) I have been reading about them for awhile but can only find out that your perspective changed somewhat.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2287637 - 01/30/04 06:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not really a Christian, but I can say that shrooms gave me a new understanding of God and I've never felt closer to the divine. You may, however, come to find out that organized religion is bullshit.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblejpod
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2287718 - 01/30/04 07:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I am curious what kind of spiritual experience or enlightenment you are seeking? Are you looking for God to reveal something to you which he has not revealed to you otherwise? If so, what leads you to believe that a drug-induced state would allow you to learn more about your relationship with God than you could under other circumstances?


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2287724 - 01/30/04 07:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Are you afraid to change your religion? Why are you a Christian? Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the judgement day and paradise and hell and all these fairy-tales? I am sorry if I am being a little hard but I was a christian and changed my religion before I became an adult simply because I have no proof of Christ or the miracles he did and Christianism views although some are correct in my opinion they don't represent my feelings.

You have been brainwashed from when you were born. If no one told you anything about christianism or you had the choice of different religions with no social racism yould you still choose christianism? I personally don't think so.

Change is a nice refreshing thing. Now if shrooms are going to change you.....ummmm if you are afraid to search the religions and maybe change because of these social and racism reasons, shrooms will make you not to care about these and maybe reach a nice conclusion. A positive conclusion.

POSITIVE

Shrooms open up your subconscious thoughts. This is a good thing.

My advice: Don't worry about trivial and ultra subjective things, go and get shroomed.-  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :biggrin: :wink: :biggrin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2287767 - 01/30/04 07:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Do an internet search on "The Good Friday Experiment". That should answer many of your questions.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2287773 - 01/30/04 07:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

dont bother trying to understand what shrooms will do to your head before you do them. I spent months reading up on them before my first trip, and quite frankly it was time well wasted.

THere is simply no way to understand the shrooms until you do them. that said, do them now. cuz it will blow you away

dont worry to much about shrooms in relation to god. God is not opposed to shrooms. just do them, relax and enjoy. You will gain a spiritual understanding, but how you relate that to your preexisting 'faith' is up to you

and the guy above me is right, your religion is like a genetic disease, it gets passed down to you by your parents and your society. Unlike diseases though you can evaluate it and see for yourself if its right for you. My reasons for renouncing my christian faith are so extensive and so personal i wont bother describing any of them

good luck man
truth may or may not be out there
but try to be happy


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2287783 - 01/30/04 07:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

dont bother trying to understand what shrooms will do to your head before you do them. I spent months reading up on them before my first trip, and quite frankly it was time well wasted.

The time may be "wasted" in trying to understand what it will be like, but not in coming to a decision as to whether one should try them or not.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2287784 - 01/30/04 07:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PHARMAKOS said:
dont bother trying to understand what shrooms will do to your head before you do them. I spent months reading up on them before my first trip, and quite frankly it was time well wasted.

THere is simply no way to understand the shrooms until you do them. that said, do them now. cuz it will blow you away







--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2287787 - 01/30/04 07:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Actually I searched a lot toobefore my first shroom-time but although that might not have made me totally understand what it is all about, it prepared me to accept this alternate state of consciousness.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2287966 - 01/30/04 09:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"You have been brainwashed from when you were born. If no one told you anything about christianism or you had the choice of different religions with no social racism yould you still choose christianism? I personally don't think so."

I disagree with this statement. I was raised Catholic. When I was 16, I became a Christian. When I was 18, I quit going to the Catholic church and gave up the creeds it espoused and adopted the Christian way of thinking.

I've further read and attended bible studies and talked to people and come to an even different way of thinking about what it means to be a Christian than the fundamental Christians believe. For instance, I now believe in reincarnation.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Frog]
    #2288000 - 01/30/04 09:30 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I disagree with this statement. I was raised Catholic. When I was 16, I became a Christian. When I was 18, I quit going to the Catholic church and gave up the creeds it espoused and adopted the Christian way of thinking.



NEWSFLASH: Catholics are Christians too. I don't get why people say they aren't.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2288002 - 01/30/04 09:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

It will be a highly spiritual experience, but may not necessarily fit in perfectly with a lot of the Christian cwap


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineFrog
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: silversoul7]
    #2288011 - 01/30/04 09:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not saying that Catholics aren't Christians. Catholics have a whole set of different rules, like you can only talk to God through a priest, which I gave up when I became a Christian. Different dogmas.

It wasn't until I started learning about being a Christian that I understood why I was supposed to believe what I was supposed to believe, when I was being raised a Catholic.

When I became a Christian, it was because I learned who God really was, and who Jesus was, and that is what made me the believer I am today. The Catholic upbringing was simply "learned" dogma. Being a Christian meant accepting Jesus as my savior, etc.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: silversoul7]
    #2288013 - 01/30/04 09:42 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You're right:

First definition of Christianity at www.dictionary.com: "The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus."

Catholics are a branch of Christianity, like Lutherans and Protestants.

If you are a Catholic, Lutheran, or Protestant (there's probably more?), you are automatically already a Christian.

Christian = Christ - ian = One who follows Christ's teachings = Catholics, too!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Strumpling]
    #2288016 - 01/30/04 09:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Christian = Christ - ian = One who follows Christ's teachings = Catholics, too!



I think it involves more than just following his teachings, because by that definition Muslims would be considered Christians as well.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Frog]
    #2288017 - 01/30/04 09:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

when people tell me they're just "Christian," it sounds lost to me because I don't know if there's strictly a "christian" church, I think its all fragmented into different parts..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: silversoul7]
    #2288018 - 01/30/04 09:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

K sorry I attempted to back you  :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

disregard my appearance in this thread


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Strumpling]
    #2288024 - 01/30/04 09:47 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

No need to apologize. I was just clarifying my position and correcting an error.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFrog
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Strumpling]
    #2288054 - 01/30/04 09:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:
when people tell me they're just "Christian," it sounds lost to me because I don't know if there's strictly a "christian" church, I think its all fragmented into different parts..




There are churches that are "nondenominational", meaning, they aren't Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, etc. There are no rules, or dogma, there are only the teachings of the Bible, and mostly those of Jesus.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Frog]
    #2288210 - 01/30/04 10:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
"You have been brainwashed from when you were born. If no one told you anything about christianism or you had the choice of different religions with no social racism yould you still choose christianism? I personally don't think so."

I disagree with this statement.




Maybe you wasn't, but the vast majority of christians was.


--------------------


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2288443 - 01/30/04 11:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Greetings Jennyl ! -
I am a Jewish Christian, baptized in 1976 exactly four years to the day after my first LSD trip. After a serious period of spiritual experimentation, it was through psychedelics (Entheogens) that I decided to enter The Way. When a Christian takes a trip, it is a Christian trip. If one is truly indwelt by Truth, an Entheogenic Excursion will supply the Visions and Ecstasy that amounts to one profound prayer of Thanksgiving.

The Sacred Mushrooms are Sacramental in their effect, and can symbolize the Eucharist in the same way that Father Peyote serves the Native American Church. How to integrate this practice ritually and symbolically is the question since mainstream churches do not hold the keys of this Mystery. If anything, the Eleusinian Mystery Rite of Greek antiquity - Pagan though it was - held this key long before Jesus was born. It may well be the task of the spiritual pioneer to create his/her own synthesis of ritual and tradition. Consecrate the act of taking the Mushroom in the Names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Break fast after the Experience with a prayer, with Wine and Bread, then perhaps honey, cheese and fruit - a true Agape (Love Feast).

I have a framed copy of the German mystic Jacob Boehme's 'Christi Testamenta' in my Living Room. It is the 'avatar' below my name here. It is a symbolic representation of the Trinity with Mushrooms superimposed. It was drawn 400 years ago. There are much older artistic representations of Mushrooms with Biblical motifs, so some Christians clearly knew about the Entheogenic keys to deeper Mysteries of the Spirit. May you discover the Cave of the Heart - the Sacred Heart - the Compassion of GOD - and seek to dwell therein forever +++Shalom. Pax. Peace+++


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFrog
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Shroomerious]
    #2288691 - 01/31/04 02:14 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I would agree with you on that.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinejennyl
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289228 - 01/31/04 09:02 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i am 'nondenominational' which FROG was right we only believe what the bible says. and don't pray to/through Mary or a saint. we just believe that there is a God and Jesus. and i used to hate church because it was boring but at my church it is a learning place. sometimes i find it weird when they all shout out "thank you Jesus" or something but for the most part it is just to grow. i want to go on mission trips around the world helping people, teaching them about school and God, teach them but not force it on them. and the answer to JPODs question. i want to understand it all more, become 1 with God. and really find God. Thanks for all yalls input


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Anonymous

Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289296 - 01/31/04 10:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jennyl said:

Hi. I am a Christian and I am considering doing ?shrooms to have a spiritual experience and enlightenment. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if their relationship with God got better, did you decide to not ?believe? anymore?? Also I was wondering if, after you had done shrooms, did your personality change (after an ego-loss or before?) I have been reading about them for awhile but can only find out that your perspective changed somewhat.




Hello jennyl. I'll just add to the good comments above and say that the mushroom experience is neither necessary nor sufficient by itself for "a spiritual experience and enlightenment." Tripping is a very personal adventure. It can be frightening. Harmless in the end but none the less frightening. So, if you have doubts and are alone with respect to the possibilty of injesting mushrooms or any other mind manifesting substance, just take a pass. Wait, maybe for a better time and a peaceful place and a trusted someone with whom you can share the experience. 2 cents.

There are some audio files at this link that may answer some of your questions.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...ev=#Post2179446

homework is good :sun:

edit: I just want to add the phrase "breathtakingly beautiful" to my comments above about the mushroom adventure.  :wink:


Edited by 3rdPerson (01/31/04 02:34 PM)


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Offlinespacemouse
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289376 - 01/31/04 11:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Jennyl, try this link
web page
In 1962, there was an experiment at Harvard with Christian Doctor of Divinity students that prove that your curiousity is very well placed.
Read the article at this link and I think you will add the sacred mushrooms to your spiritual practice...
I did :mushroom2:
Feel free to send me instant messages it you want to talk privately about this further :grin:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289425 - 01/31/04 12:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

from a particpiant in the marsh chapel trip:
www.csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/young-good_friday.html
& from the guy who ran the experiment:
www.csp.org/chrestomathy/drugs_and.html
there are other writings here & there about the experiment (huston smith writes about it in his _cleansing the doors of perception_ & there was a follow-up interview done with most of the experment subjects done a couple/few decades later...
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289710 - 01/31/04 03:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not Christian myself but I do know Christians that partake in entheogens for spiritual purposes. I can't really comment on the christian entheogenic experience since I havn't had one, but it seems to connect beautifully for my friends. One thing mushrooms have reinforced for me is that all religions and spiritual paths are really just trying to explain and understand the same thing. You will most likely experience Christian symbolism in your mushroom experiences if that is your focus and the way you define the undefinable. When I first injested mushrooms I was badly seeking a spiritual experience: and I got one. I didn't know exactly what I was looking for I just knew I wanted to connect. At the time I was into Wicca so my experience was a oneness with a Goddess or female universal energy.

Basically, the symbols you understand are the symbols you will filter the experience through. Mushrooms are not inherently tied to any religion, they may offer a shifting of perception that will allow one to have a spiritual experience according to thier own ability and means.

If you decide to take mushrooms I wish you the experience you need, an experience that will help you with your seeking.


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Invisiblejamm71
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: jennyl]
    #2289932 - 01/31/04 05:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

...well, I doubt anyone ever had someone sit you down in pre-school or kindergarten and describe all the major religious beliefs in the world and then ask "So...see anything ya like?"

Of course not. We inherit our religious beliefs from our families. If your folks are Mormon, then you will be a Mormon. If they are Agnostic, you will be Agnostic...at least until you are old enough to figure things out on your own. So does this mean you've been brainwashed? In a respect, yes it does.

Now to respond to the original point of this thread...

jennyl,
I was raised Catholic. You wouldn't believe the things they fill your head with unless you've been there yourself. By the time I hit high school, I was so disgusted that I gave up on god and religion altogether.

When I met my mushroom ally, however, I had a complete renewal of faith because I was shown that I didn't need organized religion and its hollow dogma in order to have a relationship with the divine...I could , in fact, have a very direct and personal connection to god/dess without priestly intermediaries.

Has my personality changed? Well, I used to get major depressions and now I don't...so yeah, I guess so.

If you approach the experience with care and intent and *respect* you will not be disappointed. Good luck and many blessings :^)


--------------------
I am another yourself


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Frog]
    #2291014 - 02/01/04 03:40 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"There are churches that are "nondenominational", meaning, they aren't Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, etc. There are no rules, or dogma, there are only the teachings of the Bible, and mostly those of Jesus."

I was not aware of that - Disregard my appearance in this thread :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineFrog
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Re: having christianity questions [Re: Strumpling]
    #2291041 - 02/01/04 03:59 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Well, consider youself gone.

*poof*


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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