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Belief in God's existence *DELETED*
    #4951395 -

Post deleted by Marko121212

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4951450 -

I think it's more important HOW you define 'god'. Cultures have believed in Deities but have not always been monotheistic. I think it is a common mistake that 'God' has to be described, when it is more important to experience it. After all, you're trying to give a 'homo sapiens' term to something beyond us. Why should God have to understand society or have an active involvement in it. Who said God was supposed to know how humans should behave, in a particular time and place, when it is forever changing, undergoing revolution, renaissance, wars and famine, breakthroughs, economic booms and climate changes. I think it is important not to humanise God, but maintain a universal conscience and a spiritual connection, through creation.


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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4951460 -

My present conclusion is that it is the Fear of God that produces retreat. And yet it is the knowledge of God that gives an entertaining prospect to those who do not know God; Therefor the prospects for entertainment are greater in society's that do not know God; And thus victims can claim 'entrapment' at the hands of those who would deprive knowledge of God for their own amusement.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Booby]
    #4951912 -

religion and logic do not mix well.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4952379 -

"Ancient Greek philosophers like Plato and Aristotle rationally concluded that God must exist"

as well as not so ancient philosophers like descartes and anselm. anslem?


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Belief in God's existence *DELETED* [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4955922 -

Post deleted by Marko121212

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4966802 -

A lack of complete knowledge of how things came to be does not automatically imply that there is no way that the various forms could have created itself. Nature has striking similarities at various intervals that leads me to wonder if not only (a) life is simpler to create than one might think, and consequently (b) there must be forms of life within other areas of the universe.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4972114 -

I know it's been said already, but your sig is a bit much.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4972190 -

I agree with hyphaltryptamine, I believe in a god of PATTERNS and RATIOS. But I do not believe in a universal sentience separate from our own sentience that is described as God by certain religions.

Certain philosophers have prooved the existance of God with very logical arguments, but they base their arguments on assumptions such as "God is Supremely Good". But right there is a huge fallacy. I believe that God is both Good AND Evil. So this argument falls apart in my mind and is no more proof of God than saying "Because the bible said so".

But for me, seeing patterns and fractals everywhere I go is proof for me that God not only permeates all of existance, but IS existance.

To talk like God is separate from this world (and our own consciousness) is ridiculous!

"Why should God have to understand society or have an active involvement in it. Who said God was supposed to know how humans should behave, in a particular time and place,"

but God IS society, and Homo Sapiens! And everything else! There is no difference! To me, such a question makes no sense because I have a different conception of God than Hyphal.

So any proof of God must cater to an individuals' personal beliefs...


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: dr0mni]
    #4972195 -

oh, and CatStevens... I like your sig... :smirk:


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Marko121212]
    #4972264 -

First and foremost, it should be noted that belief in God's existence is not illogical, as modern atheists would have mankind believe.

Of course belief in God is illogical:

Plato argued from design that there must be a designer.

Every argument Plato or [fill in the blank] uses to support the existence of God can be used by me to support the existence of God's God, and God's God's God, and so on.

It never ends and so there is ultimately no God because the definition of God is the guy at the top and as I just showed, there isn't any top.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Diploid]
    #4972337 -

wow Dip! We've been stuggling with this question for thousands of years and you just figured  it out! Why hasn't ANYONE thought of that before?

So gracefully you answered the ultimate question of the universe, might I add... :smirk:

If you can't read past the sarcasm, basically I'm saying that that argument no more proves the non-existance of god than all the old argument prove that there IS a god.

"The world is balanced on the shell of a giant turtle..."

"But what is that turtle resting on?"

"Another turtle..."

"And beneath that?"

"Another turtle..."

"And benea...."

"LOOK! I see where you're going with this. It's turtles all the way down!!"


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Diploid]
    #4972338 -

Of course belief in God is illogical:

no it isn't. for a litle child it is perfectly logical to believe in santa clause because from the child's level of understanding he cannot tell whether or not santa clause could exist and since most of the time adults tell him the truth it is perfectly logical for him to believe in santa clause. you can't say the belief in god is illogical because you dont know the ways in which people are arriving at that beleif. for example if someone experienced god it would be illogical for them not to believe in god.

Edited by Deviate (11/23/05 12:50 PM)

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Deviate]
    #4972395 -

no it isn't. for a litle child it is perfectly logical to believe in santa clause because from the child's level of understanding he cannot tell whether or not santa clause could exist

That's not logic, it's the child's natural ignorance.

for example if someone experienced god it would be illogical for them not to believe in god.

What's illogical is to presume what they experienced was God instead of self-deception, which is a common theme among humans.

Edited by Diploid (11/23/05 01:17 PM)

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: dr0mni]
    #4972408 -

If you can't read past the sarcasm, basically I'm saying that that argument no more proves the non-existence of god than all the old argument prove that there IS a god.

No argument can prove the non-existence of God any more than the non-existence of Giant Spaghetti Monsters on Venus.

But, since there isn't the first shred of evidence supporting the existence of God, it makes no sense to default to belief either in God or in the Spaghetti Monsters.

The more reasonable position is to withhold any belief in anything that is not in evidence pending discovery of evidence.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Diploid]
    #4972412 -

but it is it logical for the child to believe in what his parents tell him. if you dont like the child example do you remember my example with hummingbirds or the one with giant squid where for the guy who had seen the giant squid it would be perfectly logical for him to believe in giant squid but for the squid expert who calculated no squid could reach such a great size it would be illogical to believe in giant squid simply based on the testimony of man? what is logical for you to believe depends on your life experiences.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Diploid]
    #4972422 -

we are all looking for the right answers by asking all the wrong questions...

belief in a big man in the sky who shoots lighting out of his fingers is illogical. Belief in God is not necessarily logical.

The ancient belief that the earth is flat is logical, but false because of our previous ignorance of certain facts. You're belief in the non-existance of God is logical also, but can you say that we are truly aware of all the facts?


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Deviate]
    #4972426 -

but it is it logical for the child to believe in what his parents tell him

It is logical in the sense that there is a logical cause that led him to believe his parents [the child's natural ignorance, as Diploid pointed out], but because a belief has logical causes, does not necessitate any foregone conclusion that the belief itself is logical or reasonable.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: Diploid]
    #4972430 -

Quote:
What's illogical is to presume what they experienced was God instead of self-deception, which is a common theme among humans.



again, that is simply your opinion based on your life experiences. your personal convictions are not objective facts. you are not the absolute authority on what is and what is not logical for other minds to believe, especially when you have not had their experiences. i'm sure youve heard of plato's cave allegory. a person in the cave could simply tell themself it that the man who claimed to have seen the puppeteers was decieving himself. you are doing the same thing.

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Re: Belief in God's existence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4972446 -

SkorpivoMusterion said:
but it is it logical for the child to believe in what his parents tell him

It is logical in the sense that there is a logical cause that led him to believe his parents [the child's natural ignorance, as Diploid pointed out], but because a belief has logical causes, does not necessitate any foregone conclusion that the belief itself is logical or reasonable.





but it is logical from the point of view of the child who lacks further information. obviously as you gain more information what is logical to believe changes. are you saying that you have all the information? how is our position different from that of the child? or of the squid expert? the squid expert's belief that there are no giant squid is perfectly logical from his point of view. now whether the belief is "objectively" logical or reasonable, how are we supposed to decide that? isnt logic always relative to a set of premises?

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