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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation?
    #970656 - 10/17/02 10:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Well if you can't grasp the concept of faith, isn't that a form of spiritual retardation?Or perhaps they were just born with a missing organ or brain chemical which keeps them locked in a material existance.Any Input from those afflicted? :grin:

This post is intended to entertain not offend :wink: It is purely a playful needle and in no way reflects my personal veiws :cool: So any input from the spiritualy autistic?
:grin: :grin: :grin: Peace and laughter WR


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971266 - 10/18/02 03:17 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Atheists don't lack the ability to have faith, they simply beleive that the concept of God is beyond the scope of a human beings understanding. I don't consider myself an atheist, but I think their premise is a lot less retarded than a lot of other schools of spiritual thought. God being completely beyond our understanding makes a lot more sense to me than God thinking like a human being which a lot of people seem to think.


Edited by Anonymous (10/18/02 03:20 AM)


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971352 - 10/18/02 03:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

well.....i believe that athiests have just as much "faith" as the religous do....see, god gave us no hard physical proof, of either his existence or non existence for that matter, so believing in him requires as much faith as not.....am i making any sense? its just the fact that they put their faith somewhere else...


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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971370 - 10/18/02 03:59 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The athiest may be on the Path, but not yet realize it.
As long as he is interested in the evolution of his own soul (although he may not call it that) and others, he is not "spiritually retarded". Sooner or later, his spiritual awareness will catch up with his development and he will begin to see the big picture.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineCosmic_Monkey
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971546 - 10/18/02 06:36 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Atheist don't exist, becaused at the moment I don't see, hear, smell, taste, or feel any....


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InvisibleServator
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971548 - 10/18/02 06:37 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Athiests are closer to God, then any christian ever could be...


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971731 - 10/18/02 08:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think many atheists 'grasp' or understand the concept of faith but do not see a reason to exercise it. For them there isn't any evidence of a Supreme Being so what would there be to believe in or exercise towards?

Cheers,


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: ]
    #971923 - 10/18/02 11:21 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That's just like you Mr_Mushrooms, to give a rational response.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971955 - 10/18/02 11:47 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i think you've got it backwards - organized religion is spiritual retardation.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Strumpling]
    #971984 - 10/18/02 12:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry,my personal belief is "organized religion is the tool of evil" What I am talking about is (A-without,Theism-belief or faith in a "GOD").Point; name any significant atheistic society that has stood for any significant length of time.My point; Recognition of a" Greater force of Intelligence" is essential to the health of the human organism even though as stated "organized religion" is evil,pure spiritual faith is what has kept us alive despite overwhelming environmental,social and physical challenges.One may argue it is "self faith" but then is that not a form of worship of the "higher" forms of self?IMHO the act of faith is itself an externalisation of theism (whether manifesting as "faith in self" or in an external intelligence) and this is the true motivation and energy source which drives societies and individuals.As such there truly is no such thing as an
A-theist as to exist one excercises faith constantly.Faith in the laws of physics and biology,Faith in ones own capabilities......do you see where this leads? Even if you simply believe in your own inate abilities, having "self-faith",just another form of mono-theism,eh?So to sum up my premise; Faith is essential to confronting the challenges of existance.Faith is the externalization of will.Faith in self is just another form of mono-theism.A-theism is impossible without losing the abilities which allow us to compensate for the vast uncertainties of existance there fore creating a retarded state of existance with no compensatory abilities to deal with uncertainty. :wink: :grin:Peace on ya'll WR


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Edited by whiterasta (10/18/02 12:14 PM)


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972019 - 10/18/02 12:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

LMAO!
ahem....sorry, the whole name of this thread there....kinda cracked me up.
i don't think it's retardation dude. it's rebellionism. it's, "i don't have to believe in this because i don't wanna, so neener neener!"
it's religion shown to a person very very poorly at a younger age, so it causes them to reject it....like if you had never seen an apple, and you hear all this good about apples, so you go looking for one. and you find a rotten one! so you try again, and you find another rotten one! well since every apple you've found is rotten, you might as well chalk them off as all being rotten and start thinking up arguements against why any apples are ever good. because since all the apple YOU found were bad, they must all be bad.
just an allegory...i'm not saying all atheists walk around looking for apples all day.
although there was this one guy..... :grin: 


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Peace and Love to all!


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #972036 - 10/18/02 12:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Aren't words cool? retardation/rebellion which would make ya look? It's just in fun but I am trying to make a point that faith is not optional and to have it is a form of theism.Like I said it's all good  :grin:WR


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Offlinepostalboy
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: ]
    #972037 - 10/18/02 12:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think many atheists 'grasp' or understand the concept of faith but do not see a reason to exercise it. For them there isn't any evidence of a Supreme Being so what would there be to believe in or exercise towards?

You hit it on the head there.

Here's my lame attempt at a metaphor for atheists.

I live in IN. There is a very low possiblity that I have oil under my house. So instead of digging up my yard searching in vain for oil, I simply plant a garden so I can enjoy the beauty of my yard. A flower garden is much more beautiful than a yard full of holes and dirt from my digging for something that isn't there. And the flower garden is here now.



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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: postalboy]
    #972077 - 10/18/02 01:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Faith in Nature and biology or why plant the seeds? Faith externalizes will.Externalized will becomes theistic.WRhippie is right it is rebellion/? Denial of faith is as absurd as denial of reality.For one thing reality cannot exist without faith that our senses are percieving it.Denial of the theistic modality of consciousness is absurd, we naturaly externalize our relationship with reality rather than embrace our oneness with it,however to deny that we all must use faith(and all it implies) therefore A-theism is not truly and purely possible.The best and closest is as WRhippie states a form of rebelliousness against a percieved uncaring universe which is not truly A-theism but rather denial of the role faith MUST play(and perhaps resentment) in the daily functionality of existance.
So the atheist arises knowing the sun will rise because of faith yet resents the implications of acknowleging that faith.Just some stray thoughts all you Atheists,please have faith I mean no disrespect :grin:WR


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Evolving]
    #972128 - 10/18/02 01:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Onre philosophicaree as once wise Chinese student say.

At other times I jest, a lot.

Cheers,


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972139 - 10/18/02 01:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Faith in the laws of physics and biology,Faith in ones own capabilities......do you see where this leads?



Of course not, I'm spiritually retarded.

But I seem to understand the concept of faith much better than you do. No, I do not have faith in the laws of physics or biology, or my own capabilities.
The laws of physics and biology do not NEED me to have faith in them to operate [like your God does]. I don't have to take the Mendelian inheritance charts in my high school Life Science test book as infallible gospel Truth, I can grow my own pea plants and demonstrate it myself. If I question the acceleration of gravity, I can get a strobe and a stopwatch and start dropping weights. Nothing is sacred in science. It is doubt that drives its advance. The laws you're thinking of are not laws- they are just ideas that have not once been disproven after test after test.

As a rule I don't believe in anything that requires belief.

And as for my own capabilities- Not sure what capabilities you're talking about, but no- I do not have faith that I will succeed in life, that everything will be ok. Maybe just low self esteem. But I guess some people need to believe that- I don't. Right now launching a successful career in my chosen field and ever finding true love both seem to have a probability less than 50%. From past experience, I know I'm not *that* capable, and my future success depends on factors beyond my control. And I certainly don't have faith God's going to see to it that things work out. So should I drop out of school and kill myself? No, I keep going- not because I have faith, but because it is all I am able to do.
To have faith in myself- "I trust myself, I can do anything," yes, as you said that's a form of monotheism. I have no pretensions of being a God.

I see faith as a security blanket for the spiritually infantile; a motorized wheelchair for the intellectually lazy.

In reply to:

A-theism is impossible without losing the abilities which allow us to compensate for the vast uncertainties of existance



By "us" you must mean believers, not all humanity.
You admit you need faith to "compensate". It's a coping mechanism.
If someone can "confront the challenges of existence" without resorting to faith, doesn't that make them a stronger, more mature person? Have you even read any existentialism? Nietzsche?

You say there's never been a lasting atheistic society. And your point? There's also never been a society with no murder. But it's a goal worth working toward, isn't it?



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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: ]
    #972142 - 10/18/02 01:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think its like they lose hope, for god, and theres been so much negative bullshit out there about who is god.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Xibalba]
    #972161 - 10/18/02 02:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

My God does not need faith to operate, I do.Am I weak? perhaps some might think so but I am far less threatened by the concept of Atheism that an Atheist is with the concept of God.As for existentialism,nihlism,etc all are empty concepts which cannot be successfully integrated into a cohesive society (and Nietchze was such a happy man!)Please DO NOT CONFUSE MY SPIRITUALISM WITH RELIGION! If all I had to judge spirituality by was religion I too would be an "atheist" As for you not needing faith in self or physics or science you then put much faith in your senses to tell you what is true(what more self faith :blush: ).If you believe that an unyet occurring event will in the future ocurr you are using faith.If you trust your senses to interpret these events you have faith in your own senses.If you turn on a light switch and expect light you are showing faith in technology.Continued denial of faith shows faith that your arguement is valid :grin:PEACE and big :grin:WR


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972234 - 10/18/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

As for existentialism,nihlism,etc all are empty concepts which cannot be successfully integrated into a cohesive society

And you've read everything by Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, Kafka, Kierkegaard (who I'm fucking SURE all theists would love if they understood him...), Jaspers, Heidegger, Sartre, Rilke, and Camus. As long as you've know what all these guys are about... I can totally trust your informed opinion.

(and Nietzsche was such a happy man!)

If you only understood him... this statement would not be laced with sarcasm.


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972253 - 10/18/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

empty concepts which cannot be successfully integrated into a cohesive society (and Nietchze was such a happy man!)




I see, you are calling for spiritual belief on the grounds that it is useful not that it is correct. No one can argue with that. I actually wish I could believe: ignorance is bliss. Don't think I don't believe in God because the idea threatens me. I believe things based on how probable they are of being true, not on how happy that belief makes me feel. A universe overseen by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being would probably be a great place to live in, but I have seen -absolutely nothing- to convince me that I inhabit such a universe.

Don't give me this "faith the sun will rise the next day" silliness.
If I could conclusively demonstrate a divine presence and influence every day at will, sure I'd believe. But I have a feeling that if the test for God were as simple as flicking a lightswitch, there would be a lot more atheists...

So what is the test, I ask you? What can God do? Really. I want to know.

Take prayer. I pray to God. What happens? Well, maybe something, maybe nothing- depends on what God wants to happen. Of course God works in mysterious ways- so mysterious, in fact, that his influence looks just like random chance.

Who made everything? God did, of course. He just took great care to make it in such as way as to be indistingishable from the effects of gravity and natural selection.

What happens when you die? You go to a better place. No, not your body, your soul. What's a soul? Ok, it's this... thing people have, that has no mass, no charge, but contains information. What does it do? It functions in exactly the same way a living human brain would be expected to. Except it can't die. It leaves your body when you die, but there's no way to tell when it has left. But we know it goes somewhere, because people who 'almost' died report going temporarily to heaven, which just -happens- to look like the effects of a combination of oxygen deprivation and endogenous DMT release filtered through one's cultural preconceptions.

See what I'm getting at? I think God, if God exists, is irrelevant, because he intervenes only in these vague untestable ways that look identical to the non-God explanation of the same thing. Like someone altering a sequence of random coin flips by flipping their own coin.

So, I can't disprove their God, but that's not faith to me, it's schizophrenia. Have you ever read a really good paranoid schizophrenic rant? It's airtight, bulletproof.



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