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OfflinePeopleschoice
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Registered: 12/23/23
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Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: wrestler_az] * 1
    #28615379 - 01/09/24 03:00 PM (18 days, 22 hours ago)

First off, I just want to say... Wow. This post was made 1 month after I was born and now I'm old enough to have conversations like this and reply. Wild.

Anyways, you can't have proof of something not existing. So the only thing this "god" has provided us is nothing whatsoever. We are left twiddling our thumbs. You can't prove non-existence of something only the existence of something.


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:rolljoint:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Peopleschoice] * 1
    #28615632 - 01/09/24 07:03 PM (18 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Peopleschoice said:
you can't have proof of something not existing. So the only thing this "god" has provided us is nothing whatsoever. We are left twiddling our thumbs. You can't prove non-existence of something only the existence of something.




I'm not a theist but there is a spot in the hierarchy of existence that could be named God. Everything exists therefore God exists.

This is still a very minimalist definition, cloaked in darkness. It sets the stage for all the craziness that comes from it so perhaps it's best not to invoke the word God. Buddhism is neither monotheistic or polytheistic. Buddhism is essentially atheistic yet still spiritual, depending on what one considers spiritual.

"Tantric meditational deities should not be confused with what different mythologies and religions might mean when they speak of gods and goddesses. Here, the deity we choose to identify with represents the essential qualities of the fully awakened experience latent within us. To use the language of psychology, such a deity is an archetype of our own deepest nature, our most profound level of consciousness. In tantra we focus our attention on such an archetypal image and identify with it in order to arouse the deepest, most profound aspects of our being and bring them into our present reality." (Introduction to Tantra: A Vision of Totality [1987], p. 42)

While I can't say all of Buddhism is thus, the Buddha himself said he was not a god and would not say there was a God.

It was the nature of belief he was avoiding. Better to say I do not know. But then knowing one doesn't know, one wants to know. One might search. When it comes to twiddling thumbs, one is waiting for an answer.

But the question itself is no different than the belief, the searching, the waiting. Made up. We have our own heads. We don't need to know if God has one or if there is a God. But if one is curious and supposes there's more to life than the mundane this could be discovered (revealed) without sacrificing one's logical integrity for belief and theism. The idea of revelation is not simply a matter of prophesy as the paragraph I quoted earlier will attest to in it's last sentence.

Consciousness and potential of the mind. No time for twiddling thumbs!


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflinePeopleschoice
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Posts: 23
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28615664 - 01/09/24 07:40 PM (18 days, 17 hours ago)

I love how you put everything.

But I would still disagree that the first sentence doesn't make logical sense. There is no relationship between both of those sentences. God could just be another word for nature in that sense. But nature is not omnipotent which is a common argument, or all loving, etc.

Buddhism is a lot cooler than I thought. I never knew the buddha didn't believe in a god. I love duncan trussel but have only recently been diving into buddhism and spirituality.

I am no longer twiddling my thumbs! Thank you!


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:rolljoint:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Alyssa] * 1
    #28615858 - 01/09/24 11:34 PM (18 days, 13 hours ago)

I do not think the Buddha would be that impressed with tantric practice.
The Tibetan approach to wisdom combined Buddhism with local superstitions, monasticism, and politics.
It is probably the most successful right wing totalitarian institution that has ever existed, and also possibly the gentle-est of that ilk.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation?
    #970656 - 10/17/02 08:59 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Well if you can't grasp the concept of faith, isn't that a form of spiritual retardation?Or perhaps they were just born with a missing organ or brain chemical which keeps them locked in a material existance.Any Input from those afflicted? :grin:

This post is intended to entertain not offend :wink: It is purely a playful needle and in no way reflects my personal veiws :cool: So any input from the spiritualy autistic?
:grin: :grin: :grin: Peace and laughter WR


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To old for this place


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971266 - 10/18/02 01:17 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Atheists don't lack the ability to have faith, they simply beleive that the concept of God is beyond the scope of a human beings understanding. I don't consider myself an atheist, but I think their premise is a lot less retarded than a lot of other schools of spiritual thought. God being completely beyond our understanding makes a lot more sense to me than God thinking like a human being which a lot of people seem to think.


Edited by Fiend (10/18/02 01:20 AM)


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971352 - 10/18/02 01:53 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

well.....i believe that athiests have just as much "faith" as the religous do....see, god gave us no hard physical proof, of either his existence or non existence for that matter, so believing in him requires as much faith as not.....am i making any sense? its just the fact that they put their faith somewhere else...


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971370 - 10/18/02 01:59 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

The athiest may be on the Path, but not yet realize it.
As long as he is interested in the evolution of his own soul (although he may not call it that) and others, he is not "spiritually retarded". Sooner or later, his spiritual awareness will catch up with his development and he will begin to see the big picture.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleCosmic_Monkey
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Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Somewhere between inner-s...
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971546 - 10/18/02 04:36 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Atheist don't exist, becaused at the moment I don't see, hear, smell, taste, or feel any....


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InvisibleServator
Viral Agent

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 4,893
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971548 - 10/18/02 04:37 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Athiests are closer to God, then any christian ever could be...


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971731 - 10/18/02 06:41 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I think many atheists 'grasp' or understand the concept of faith but do not see a reason to exercise it. For them there isn't any evidence of a Supreme Being so what would there be to believe in or exercise towards?

Cheers,


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: ]
    #971923 - 10/18/02 09:21 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

That's just like you Mr_Mushrooms, to give a rational response.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #971955 - 10/18/02 09:47 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

i think you've got it backwards - organized religion is spiritual retardation.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Strumpling]
    #971984 - 10/18/02 10:11 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry,my personal belief is "organized religion is the tool of evil" What I am talking about is (A-without,Theism-belief or faith in a "GOD").Point; name any significant atheistic society that has stood for any significant length of time.My point; Recognition of a" Greater force of Intelligence" is essential to the health of the human organism even though as stated "organized religion" is evil,pure spiritual faith is what has kept us alive despite overwhelming environmental,social and physical challenges.One may argue it is "self faith" but then is that not a form of worship of the "higher" forms of self?IMHO the act of faith is itself an externalisation of theism (whether manifesting as "faith in self" or in an external intelligence) and this is the true motivation and energy source which drives societies and individuals.As such there truly is no such thing as an
A-theist as to exist one excercises faith constantly.Faith in the laws of physics and biology,Faith in ones own capabilities......do you see where this leads? Even if you simply believe in your own inate abilities, having "self-faith",just another form of mono-theism,eh?So to sum up my premise; Faith is essential to confronting the challenges of existance.Faith is the externalization of will.Faith in self is just another form of mono-theism.A-theism is impossible without losing the abilities which allow us to compensate for the vast uncertainties of existance there fore creating a retarded state of existance with no compensatory abilities to deal with uncertainty. :wink: :grin:Peace on ya'll WR


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To old for this place


Edited by whiterasta (10/18/02 10:14 AM)


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
lover

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972019 - 10/18/02 10:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

LMAO!
ahem....sorry, the whole name of this thread there....kinda cracked me up.
i don't think it's retardation dude. it's rebellionism. it's, "i don't have to believe in this because i don't wanna, so neener neener!"
it's religion shown to a person very very poorly at a younger age, so it causes them to reject it....like if you had never seen an apple, and you hear all this good about apples, so you go looking for one. and you find a rotten one! so you try again, and you find another rotten one! well since every apple you've found is rotten, you might as well chalk them off as all being rotten and start thinking up arguements against why any apples are ever good. because since all the apple YOU found were bad, they must all be bad.
just an allegory...i'm not saying all atheists walk around looking for apples all day.
although there was this one guy..... :grin: 


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Peace and Love to all!


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #972036 - 10/18/02 10:43 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Aren't words cool? retardation/rebellion which would make ya look? It's just in fun but I am trying to make a point that faith is not optional and to have it is a form of theism.Like I said it's all good  :grin:WR


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To old for this place


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: ]
    #972037 - 10/18/02 10:43 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I think many atheists 'grasp' or understand the concept of faith but do not see a reason to exercise it. For them there isn't any evidence of a Supreme Being so what would there be to believe in or exercise towards?

You hit it on the head there.

Here's my lame attempt at a metaphor for atheists.

I live in IN. There is a very low possiblity that I have oil under my house. So instead of digging up my yard searching in vain for oil, I simply plant a garden so I can enjoy the beauty of my yard. A flower garden is much more beautiful than a yard full of holes and dirt from my digging for something that isn't there. And the flower garden is here now.



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"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: postalboy]
    #972077 - 10/18/02 11:04 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Faith in Nature and biology or why plant the seeds? Faith externalizes will.Externalized will becomes theistic.WRhippie is right it is rebellion/? Denial of faith is as absurd as denial of reality.For one thing reality cannot exist without faith that our senses are percieving it.Denial of the theistic modality of consciousness is absurd, we naturaly externalize our relationship with reality rather than embrace our oneness with it,however to deny that we all must use faith(and all it implies) therefore A-theism is not truly and purely possible.The best and closest is as WRhippie states a form of rebelliousness against a percieved uncaring universe which is not truly A-theism but rather denial of the role faith MUST play(and perhaps resentment) in the daily functionality of existance.
So the atheist arises knowing the sun will rise because of faith yet resents the implications of acknowleging that faith.Just some stray thoughts all you Atheists,please have faith I mean no disrespect :grin:WR


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To old for this place


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Anonymous

Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Evolving]
    #972128 - 10/18/02 11:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Onre philosophicaree as once wise Chinese student say.

At other times I jest, a lot.

Cheers,


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InvisibleXibalba
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Posts: 2,114
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972139 - 10/18/02 11:44 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Faith in the laws of physics and biology,Faith in ones own capabilities......do you see where this leads?



Of course not, I'm spiritually retarded.

But I seem to understand the concept of faith much better than you do. No, I do not have faith in the laws of physics or biology, or my own capabilities.
The laws of physics and biology do not NEED me to have faith in them to operate [like your God does]. I don't have to take the Mendelian inheritance charts in my high school Life Science test book as infallible gospel Truth, I can grow my own pea plants and demonstrate it myself. If I question the acceleration of gravity, I can get a strobe and a stopwatch and start dropping weights. Nothing is sacred in science. It is doubt that drives its advance. The laws you're thinking of are not laws- they are just ideas that have not once been disproven after test after test.

As a rule I don't believe in anything that requires belief.

And as for my own capabilities- Not sure what capabilities you're talking about, but no- I do not have faith that I will succeed in life, that everything will be ok. Maybe just low self esteem. But I guess some people need to believe that- I don't. Right now launching a successful career in my chosen field and ever finding true love both seem to have a probability less than 50%. From past experience, I know I'm not *that* capable, and my future success depends on factors beyond my control. And I certainly don't have faith God's going to see to it that things work out. So should I drop out of school and kill myself? No, I keep going- not because I have faith, but because it is all I am able to do.
To have faith in myself- "I trust myself, I can do anything," yes, as you said that's a form of monotheism. I have no pretensions of being a God.

I see faith as a security blanket for the spiritually infantile; a motorized wheelchair for the intellectually lazy.

In reply to:

A-theism is impossible without losing the abilities which allow us to compensate for the vast uncertainties of existance



By "us" you must mean believers, not all humanity.
You admit you need faith to "compensate". It's a coping mechanism.
If someone can "confront the challenges of existence" without resorting to faith, doesn't that make them a stronger, more mature person? Have you even read any existentialism? Nietzsche?

You say there's never been a lasting atheistic society. And your point? There's also never been a society with no murder. But it's a goal worth working toward, isn't it?



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