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OfflineLocus
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7304041 - 08/17/07 09:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i think this is all bs, sorry.


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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7304049 - 08/17/07 09:35 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You will find in India that devotees of all those deities are actually mostly celibate renunciates! The imagery of sexual union is not to be taken literally, as it is representative of the non-duality of 'spiritual' union, not something physical.


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Invisible2sky
a friend of Narnia
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Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 115
Loc: the Dawn
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304065 - 08/17/07 09:49 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

don't know, i've never been there, but the word 'renunciates' says it all. the tantric teachings say that only when you enter into the act with full awareness will you be free of it.


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two notes of the chord - birth and death - that's our full scope but to reach the chord that's our life's hope - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

either we heading for global suicide or the greatest spiritual awakening the world has ever known - the introduction to the 1976 edition of Only One Sky / rajneesh


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7304076 - 08/17/07 10:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

So if you murder someone with full awareness, you are free from that action? :what:

You do not have to be a renunciate to practice Tantra. When the mind is free from attachement, it is much easier to have experience of bliss and non-duality. This is why most devotee's are renunciates as well as Tantrikas. But you can certainly practice Tantra without having a base of renunciation, just as those with higher capacity can be free of attachment without renouncing sex and alcohol for example.

First of all though, we must understand exactly what Tantra is, and not get confused. If we misunderstand we might mistake being free in an outer sense for being free in an inner sense, which is of course a big misunderstanding.

If you really want a good book on Tantra, from the actual POV of experience, I strongly suggest 'Introduction To Tantra' by Lama Yeshe. Its a Buddhist book on Tantra and IMO its really one of the best books to date on the subject.

Really one must have a qualified teacher to learn Tantra correctly, as it is a very quick path to spiritual enlightenment that can also be somewhat dangerous for those that do not have a proper guide.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 10:17 AM)


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7304109 - 08/17/07 10:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

1. If the man has an orgasm before the woman does, his very orgasm will excite her even more and overnight this unfulfilled excitement will return the next day with feelings of frustration - unless she has another man within five minutes of the first man's orgasm.
Quote:

Most women have had the experience of being asked by their partner during sex if they are going to “get off.” This myth is the reason for that question. The majority of men believe that sex without an orgasm is not pleasurable for a woman, but that's not true.

First of all, even though orgasms are a wonderful part of the sexual experience, there is more involved than that. For couples, sex is generally a physical expression of love and closeness. Many women report enjoying this part of the experience immensely even when it is not followed by an orgasm.
http://www.allgoodarticles.com/article4805.html





2. 90% of the women in the world have never had a single orgasm in their entire lives. However, in the last 50 or so years some women in in the west have become aware that this is a worth wile thing to have.
Quote:

In a 1992 national study (...) 25 percent reported an inability to achieve orgasm.
https://www.emerita.com/pages/sexual-vitality/womens-sexual-vitality.asp



Quote:

Roughly 1 in 10 women (and this could be a conservative estimate) report never having an orgasm but in most cases the problem can be overcome.
http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=2357





3. A woman is likely to lose all interest in sex after having a baby for quite a while, and the change can be abrupt.
Quote:

Is Sex Safe During Pregnancy?

Sex is always safe during pregnancy if you have a low risk pregnancy with no or few complications. You can take the advise of your doctor on whether you should avoid sex for any reason. Most women can maintain a healthy and fulfilling sexual relationship throughout their pregnancy.

Will I Enjoy Sex During Pregnancy?

Many women shy away from sex during their first trimester as morning sickness and fatigue get in the way of their lovemaking. Some women find themselves large during the third trimester, and so prefer not to have sex. However, others continue having intercourse up to their delivery date.
http://pregnancy.ygoy.com/parental-relations/sexual.php





4. Birth-control pills inhibit a woman sexual desires, and even two years after cessation they will not have returned to normal.
Quote:

The Birth Control Pill and Sex Drive: What We Already Know
For the past thirty years, researchers, health care providers, and pill users have acknowledged that the pill can cause a number of side effects. Ranging from weight gain to depression, the pill is definitely not without its drawbacks. An additional drawback for many women is that the birth control pill can inhibit sex drive. In particular, the pill appears to:
  • decrease libido
  • decrease sexual enjoyment
  • decrease lubrication during sexual intercourse

Typically, though, this side effect was thought to disappear when use of the birth control pill was discontinued.

Why Does the Pill Affect Sex Drive?
It appears that the birth control pill affects sex drive because it acts directly on a woman’s sexual hormones. In particular, the birth control pill inhibits the production of androgens, including testosterone, in a woman’s ovaries. Androgens have a direct effect on the pleasure that you experience during sexual intercourse. Additionally, the birth control pill also appears to increase the amount of sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in the body. SHBG is a protein that binds to testosterone, preventing a woman’s body from using it effectively. High levels of SHBG have been directly linked to decreased libido and sexual desire.

A New Study on Birth Control and the Libido
In January 2006, a new study was released illustrating possible long-term effects of the birth control pill on the female libido. Published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, this study finds that women using the birth control pill showed markedly-decreased levels of sexual desire than those women who do not use the birth control pill. It also found that women who had discontinued use of the pill continued to suffer side effects in the long-term.
http://www.epigee.org/guide/pill_sex.html




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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: elbisivni]
    #7304121 - 08/17/07 10:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you :smile:


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisible2sky
a friend of Narnia
Male

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 115
Loc: the Dawn
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304124 - 08/17/07 10:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

the tantric teachings say that if Buddha were to commit a murder, he would incur no karma.
tantric sex leads to a state of consciousness called 'mudra' which is like normal orgasm but millions of times higher and deeper and can last up to three hours, but until you become a Buddha i doubt that murdering someone with awareness would be a 'mudra' experience.


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two notes of the chord - birth and death - that's our full scope but to reach the chord that's our life's hope - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

either we heading for global suicide or the greatest spiritual awakening the world has ever known - the introduction to the 1976 edition of Only One Sky / rajneesh


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304235 - 08/17/07 11:33 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Really one must have a qualified teacher to learn Tantra correctly, as it is a very quick path to spiritual enlightenment that can also be somewhat dangerous for those that do not have a proper guide.





Says who? I am skeptical of any blanket statements about the transmission of spiritual knowledge being "dangerous" without the guidance of a teacher. This smacks of elitism AND the desire for job security by said teachers.

While my Tantric studies have included classes with qualified teachers, none of my teachers have claimed that this path is dangerous. In fact, just the opposite. A friend who is a Reiki Master and Kundalini Yoga instructor, as well as a Tantra practitioner, told me with great confidence that there was no danger.

This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.

To the OP: Speaking of nonsense...none of what you have listed is included in Tantra teachings. I suggest a bit of research beyond Osho's book, if you are truly interested in the Tantric path.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304292 - 08/17/07 11:52 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Says who? All reputable teachers IMO. I know personally people who have been screwed up energy wise messing around with Kundalini exercises, so I'm afraid your friend is greatly mistaken. There are also reputable teachers who say the same thing with Kundalini. In fact IMO all teachers that are really teaching Kundalini and other related practices will tell you the same thing (that there are dangers). Just like if you do not get a proper instructor for driving a car, the likelihood is you will have a crash. This is nothing to do with Elitism, but to do with safety, which is why Kundalini was a much more secretive practice in the past.

Basically, if you are not spiritually mature enough to handle it, and not have proper guidance in utilizing the experience and energy, it can certainly mess you up in many ways.

You quoted a sentence of mine, but did not put in into context with the sentence above it. I was recommending the complete 'Tantra' path, not playtime sexual exercises drummed up for commercialization and labeled Tantra, like most of those said 'workshops' available in the west nowadays.

The Buddhist Tantric path can indeed be very dangerous as so many misunderstanding can arise through wrong view and application. But this is not something I wish to discuss in this thread. Rest assured, practicing any complete Tantric path, Hindu or Buddhist, one must have a qualified teacher precisely because we are dealing with persons energy systems, which can easily be disturbed which can cause many problems through misguided application. If you have a teacher who has already practiced fully the methods you wish to, and walked the path you wished to walk, of course that is perfect situation, much better then going alone and possibly screwing yourself up.

For the record I also know people who have seriously depleted there energy through not understanding properly the energy level, but still attempting to heal people using Reiki. In fact, any practice that deals concretely with energy, needs to be handled with care.


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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 12:12 PM)


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Offlinejonathanseagull
Cool!
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304294 - 08/17/07 11:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.





The Kundalini Emergence/Emergency is not nonsense. When a person is suddenly engulfed in an ongoing psychosis, and has no frame of reference to understand what is happening, it can be very dangerous, leading to suicide or other desperate acts.


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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7304317 - 08/17/07 11:59 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jonathanseagull said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.





The Kundalini Emergence/Emergency is not nonsense. When a person is suddenly engulfed in an ongoing psychosis, and has no frame of reference to understand what is happening, it can be very dangerous, leading to suicide or other desperate acts.




Yup. The emergency can also happen for those who seem completely fine, but have underlying tendencies toward psychosis. Also it can have detrimental affects just on those who are merely not spiritually mature enough to handle the experience. This is why one needs a really careful and knowledgeable teacher, and a good foundation in spiritual practice 'before' applying Kundalini practice.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7304377 - 08/17/07 12:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not saying that psychosis does not exist, I'm saying that blaming Kundalini energy for a psychotic episode is nonsense.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304384 - 08/17/07 12:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Still sounds like elitist bunk to me.  :shrug:  Each to his own, I suppose.  Being scared of one's own life energy seems fairly foolish.


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304404 - 08/17/07 12:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I'm not saying that psychosis does not exist, I'm saying that blaming Kundalini energy for a psychotic episode is nonsense.




It can 'trigger' a psychosis. I don't remember anyone saying it actually 'causes' it.


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Invisible2sky
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Registered: 08/08/07
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304416 - 08/17/07 12:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

try 'The Book Of Secrets'/Rajneesh (Osho). it explains 112 different tantric meditations - four of which involve sex - and all were created with Devi sitting/conjunction on Shiva's lap asking him questions which he never answers,but in a round about way always does. they are 5000 years old.


--------------------
two notes of the chord - birth and death - that's our full scope but to reach the chord that's our life's hope - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

either we heading for global suicide or the greatest spiritual awakening the world has ever known - the introduction to the 1976 edition of Only One Sky / rajneesh


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304428 - 08/17/07 12:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Any life experience could trigger a psychosis. Blaming a practice which increases our awareness of our own life force is misguided, IMO. None of the teachers whom I have met or whose work I have read adhere to this strict, dogmatic approach to Kundalini practice. The sites on Kundalini "Emergency" seem to include the same internet hysteria that is becoming as common online as porn.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304431 - 08/17/07 12:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Still sounds like elitist bunk to me.  :shrug:  Each to his own, I suppose.  Being scared of one's own life energy seems fairly foolish.




Well, thats you opinion. To me you just sound very ill informed and lacking in experience. The energy is benign and neutral of course, nothing to be afraid of. What meridians and pathways you pass that energy through however definitely has real effects on the mind and of course, the balance of the energy system. If you are not aware of this by now, I wonder what kind of practices you have been doing, and whether you have had any real effects from them at all. :shrug:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
    #7304433 - 08/17/07 12:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If your quoted "facts" are from Osho's book, then I am not interested in reading it.  :shrug:


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
    #7304440 - 08/17/07 12:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Any life experience could trigger a psychosis. Blaming a practice which increases our awareness of our own life force is misguided, IMO. None of the teachers whom I have met or whose work I have read adhere to this strict, dogmatic approach to Kundalini practice. The sites on Kundalini "Emergency" seem to include the same internet hysteria that is becoming as common online as porn.




What strict dogmatic approach are you harping on about? I'm talking about energy and experience, and how it can have powerful effects on the individual, and how one has to be careful. There is nothing dogmatic, or strict about this, this is called common sense and safety, and if your teachers lack this, then how can they be reputable teachers? IMO they can't.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
    #7304442 - 08/17/07 12:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Again, any life experience has effects on the mind and body.  What support can you offer for your claim that Kundalini practice is dangerous and requires the direction of a "qualified" teacher?

(Besides your personalisms about my lack of experience, that is. :rolleyes:)


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