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2sky
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The Tantric Facts Of life
#7303824 - 08/17/07 05:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sex is the deepest Bondage!
1. If the man has an orgasm before the woman does, his very orgasm will excite her even more and overnight this unfulfilled excitement will return the next day with feelings of frustration - unless she has another man immediately after the first man's orgasm.
2. 90% of the women in the world have never had a single orgasm in their entire lives. However, in the last 50 or so years some women in in the west have become aware that this is a worth wile thing to have.
3. A woman is likely to lose all interest in sex after having a baby for quite a while, and the change can be abrupt.
4. Birth-control pills inhibit a woman sexual desires, and even two years after cessation they will not have returned to normal.
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
Edited by 2sky (04/22/09 09:52 PM)
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303856 - 08/17/07 05:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. If the man has an orgasm before the woman does, his very orgasm will excite her even more and overnight this unfulfilled excitement will return the next day with feelings of frustration - unless she has another man within five minutes of the first man's orgasm.

Quote:
2. 90% of the women in the world have never had a single orgasm in their entire lives. However, in the last 50 or so years some women in in the west have become aware that this is a worth wile thing to have.
And you know this how?  Is there a statistic somewhere? If so, can you show us the link where you read that?
Code:
3. A woman is likely to lose all interest in sex after having a baby for quite a while, and the change can be abrupt.
Wrong
Quote:
4. Birth-control pills inhibit a woman sexual desires, and even two years after cessation they will not have returned to normal.
Wrong again.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7303888 - 08/17/07 05:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, no statistics; but on the other hand, how much of the world have you seen?
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303899 - 08/17/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is not an argument and it doesn't prove anything. You made an outrageous statement for which you can't present any prove. You are the one who has the duty to sustain your own idea. If you can't do that, it means that what you said is false and then I'll have to ask you to correct your statement and adjust it to a real one. Otherwise all you do is confuse people. More to that, you thread title is called tantric facts of life. I see no facts here, all I see is a blurry mind trying to say something very ambiguous and confusing.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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JacquesCousteau
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303901 - 08/17/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
2sky said:how much of the world have you seen?
Right back atcha, dawg.
Your list seems like you just made it up off the top of your head...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Quote:
JacquesCousteau said:
Quote:
2sky said:how much of the world have you seen?
Right back atcha, dawg.
Your list seems like you just made it up off the top of your head...
Yup
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7303913 - 08/17/07 06:09 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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from your own experience, do you think the first line is true?
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303926 - 08/17/07 06:16 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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What do your incorrect opinions even have to do with Tantra? Do you even know what Tantra is?
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303931 - 08/17/07 06:18 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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No. Then again my experience is limited only to me, so I need some proves for your statement
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7303933 - 08/17/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: What do your incorrect opinions even have to do with Tantra? Do you even know what Tantra is?
No but it sounded pompous.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7303937 - 08/17/07 06:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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you have never heard of tantric sex ?
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303941 - 08/17/07 06:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's exactly why he asked you what does it have to do with the "subject" you presented.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303948 - 08/17/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
2sky said: you have never heard of tantric sex ?
Yes, its a buzz phrase coined to make lots of money off of ignorant westerners.
In reality, Tantra as practiced in both Hindu and Buddhist traditions has very little to do with sex. In fact it plays such a small role, especially in Buddhist Tantra, that it is barely if ever talked about.
Now, are you ready to answer my questions? What does Tantra even have to do with anything you said in your initial post?
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7303960 - 08/17/07 06:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not to mention that it has nothing to do with the sex presented here
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7303968 - 08/17/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Indeed
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7303976 - 08/17/07 06:47 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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as long as you are happy that's what counts. however,i tend to suspect it is true. there is no way to find out for sure one way or the other at the present time. the first three lines are from a book : Tantra - Spirituality & Sex / Osho. the forth line i added myself after reading a medical report in one in one of the women's tabloid newspapers.
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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JacquesCousteau
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303988 - 08/17/07 06:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Osho is a controversial and debatable source of wisdom, at best.
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7303990 - 08/17/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh please, don't be mislead by Osho. He was the main guy who coined the phrase 'tantric sex' to set up his little cult. He was a serial womanizer and a completely fraudulent Guru, blending every philosophy going into his own unique brand of pseudo spirituality. He made so much money of off hoodwinking westerners its almost unreal. My advice - get over him.
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JacquesCousteau
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7303993 - 08/17/07 06:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: Oh please, don't be mislead by Osho. He was the main guy who coined the phrase 'tantric sex' to set up his little cult. He was a serial womanizer and a completely fraudulent Guru, blending every philosophy going into his own unique brand of pseudo spirituality. He made so much money of off fraudulent westerners its almost unreal. My advice - get over him.
Bingo.
Dude had atleast 90 Roles Royces. LITERALLY. He's been photographed in 90 different cars. His cult followers thought he should have one for every day of the year... sigh.
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304033 - 08/17/07 07:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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it all goes back to the ancient mythology of India. there was a trio of gods (underneath big G of course): Brahma- the creator, Vishnu- the maintainer, and Shiva- the destroyer. Shiva was the only one who was remotely human and had some remembrance of where he came from. one day, Brahma and Vishnu went to visit Shiva on some matter of state and they found him in sexual embrace with his consort Devi and it was three hours before he even knew they were there. Brahma and Vishnu were so pissed at having to wait so long that from that moment on they decreed that he would forever be Shiva-lingua. a penis embedded in a vagina.
regular tension sex is in the horizontal dimension of time. tantric relaxation sex is in the vertical dimension of now.
9
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Locus



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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7304041 - 08/17/07 07:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think this is all bs, sorry.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7304049 - 08/17/07 07:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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You will find in India that devotees of all those deities are actually mostly celibate renunciates! The imagery of sexual union is not to be taken literally, as it is representative of the non-duality of 'spiritual' union, not something physical.
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304065 - 08/17/07 07:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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don't know, i've never been there, but the word 'renunciates' says it all. the tantric teachings say that only when you enter into the act with full awareness will you be free of it.
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7304076 - 08/17/07 08:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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So if you murder someone with full awareness, you are free from that action? 
You do not have to be a renunciate to practice Tantra. When the mind is free from attachement, it is much easier to have experience of bliss and non-duality. This is why most devotee's are renunciates as well as Tantrikas. But you can certainly practice Tantra without having a base of renunciation, just as those with higher capacity can be free of attachment without renouncing sex and alcohol for example.
First of all though, we must understand exactly what Tantra is, and not get confused. If we misunderstand we might mistake being free in an outer sense for being free in an inner sense, which is of course a big misunderstanding.
If you really want a good book on Tantra, from the actual POV of experience, I strongly suggest 'Introduction To Tantra' by Lama Yeshe. Its a Buddhist book on Tantra and IMO its really one of the best books to date on the subject.
Really one must have a qualified teacher to learn Tantra correctly, as it is a very quick path to spiritual enlightenment that can also be somewhat dangerous for those that do not have a proper guide.
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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 08:17 AM)
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elbisivni
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7304109 - 08/17/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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1. If the man has an orgasm before the woman does, his very orgasm will excite her even more and overnight this unfulfilled excitement will return the next day with feelings of frustration - unless she has another man within five minutes of the first man's orgasm.
Quote:
Most women have had the experience of being asked by their partner during sex if they are going to “get off.” This myth is the reason for that question. The majority of men believe that sex without an orgasm is not pleasurable for a woman, but that's not true.
First of all, even though orgasms are a wonderful part of the sexual experience, there is more involved than that. For couples, sex is generally a physical expression of love and closeness. Many women report enjoying this part of the experience immensely even when it is not followed by an orgasm. http://www.allgoodarticles.com/article4805.html
2. 90% of the women in the world have never had a single orgasm in their entire lives. However, in the last 50 or so years some women in in the west have become aware that this is a worth wile thing to have.
Quote:
In a 1992 national study (...) 25 percent reported an inability to achieve orgasm. https://www.emerita.com/pages/sexual-vitality/womens-sexual-vitality.asp
Quote:
Roughly 1 in 10 women (and this could be a conservative estimate) report never having an orgasm but in most cases the problem can be overcome. http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=2357
3. A woman is likely to lose all interest in sex after having a baby for quite a while, and the change can be abrupt.
Quote:
Is Sex Safe During Pregnancy?
Sex is always safe during pregnancy if you have a low risk pregnancy with no or few complications. You can take the advise of your doctor on whether you should avoid sex for any reason. Most women can maintain a healthy and fulfilling sexual relationship throughout their pregnancy.
Will I Enjoy Sex During Pregnancy?
Many women shy away from sex during their first trimester as morning sickness and fatigue get in the way of their lovemaking. Some women find themselves large during the third trimester, and so prefer not to have sex. However, others continue having intercourse up to their delivery date. http://pregnancy.ygoy.com/parental-relations/sexual.php
4. Birth-control pills inhibit a woman sexual desires, and even two years after cessation they will not have returned to normal.
Quote:
The Birth Control Pill and Sex Drive: What We Already Know For the past thirty years, researchers, health care providers, and pill users have acknowledged that the pill can cause a number of side effects. Ranging from weight gain to depression, the pill is definitely not without its drawbacks. An additional drawback for many women is that the birth control pill can inhibit sex drive. In particular, the pill appears to:
- decrease libido
- decrease sexual enjoyment
- decrease lubrication during sexual intercourse
Typically, though, this side effect was thought to disappear when use of the birth control pill was discontinued.
Why Does the Pill Affect Sex Drive? It appears that the birth control pill affects sex drive because it acts directly on a woman’s sexual hormones. In particular, the birth control pill inhibits the production of androgens, including testosterone, in a woman’s ovaries. Androgens have a direct effect on the pleasure that you experience during sexual intercourse. Additionally, the birth control pill also appears to increase the amount of sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in the body. SHBG is a protein that binds to testosterone, preventing a woman’s body from using it effectively. High levels of SHBG have been directly linked to decreased libido and sexual desire.
A New Study on Birth Control and the Libido In January 2006, a new study was released illustrating possible long-term effects of the birth control pill on the female libido. Published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, this study finds that women using the birth control pill showed markedly-decreased levels of sexual desire than those women who do not use the birth control pill. It also found that women who had discontinued use of the pill continued to suffer side effects in the long-term. http://www.epigee.org/guide/pill_sex.html
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: elbisivni]
#7304121 - 08/17/07 08:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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2sky
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304124 - 08/17/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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the tantric teachings say that if Buddha were to commit a murder, he would incur no karma. tantric sex leads to a state of consciousness called 'mudra' which is like normal orgasm but millions of times higher and deeper and can last up to three hours, but until you become a Buddha i doubt that murdering someone with awareness would be a 'mudra' experience.
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304235 - 08/17/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Really one must have a qualified teacher to learn Tantra correctly, as it is a very quick path to spiritual enlightenment that can also be somewhat dangerous for those that do not have a proper guide.
Says who? I am skeptical of any blanket statements about the transmission of spiritual knowledge being "dangerous" without the guidance of a teacher. This smacks of elitism AND the desire for job security by said teachers.
While my Tantric studies have included classes with qualified teachers, none of my teachers have claimed that this path is dangerous. In fact, just the opposite. A friend who is a Reiki Master and Kundalini Yoga instructor, as well as a Tantra practitioner, told me with great confidence that there was no danger.
This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.
To the OP: Speaking of nonsense...none of what you have listed is included in Tantra teachings. I suggest a bit of research beyond Osho's book, if you are truly interested in the Tantric path.
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304292 - 08/17/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Says who? All reputable teachers IMO. I know personally people who have been screwed up energy wise messing around with Kundalini exercises, so I'm afraid your friend is greatly mistaken. There are also reputable teachers who say the same thing with Kundalini. In fact IMO all teachers that are really teaching Kundalini and other related practices will tell you the same thing (that there are dangers). Just like if you do not get a proper instructor for driving a car, the likelihood is you will have a crash. This is nothing to do with Elitism, but to do with safety, which is why Kundalini was a much more secretive practice in the past.
Basically, if you are not spiritually mature enough to handle it, and not have proper guidance in utilizing the experience and energy, it can certainly mess you up in many ways.
You quoted a sentence of mine, but did not put in into context with the sentence above it. I was recommending the complete 'Tantra' path, not playtime sexual exercises drummed up for commercialization and labeled Tantra, like most of those said 'workshops' available in the west nowadays.
The Buddhist Tantric path can indeed be very dangerous as so many misunderstanding can arise through wrong view and application. But this is not something I wish to discuss in this thread. Rest assured, practicing any complete Tantric path, Hindu or Buddhist, one must have a qualified teacher precisely because we are dealing with persons energy systems, which can easily be disturbed which can cause many problems through misguided application. If you have a teacher who has already practiced fully the methods you wish to, and walked the path you wished to walk, of course that is perfect situation, much better then going alone and possibly screwing yourself up.
For the record I also know people who have seriously depleted there energy through not understanding properly the energy level, but still attempting to heal people using Reiki. In fact, any practice that deals concretely with energy, needs to be handled with care.
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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 10:12 AM)
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jonathanseagull
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304294 - 08/17/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.
The Kundalini Emergence/Emergency is not nonsense. When a person is suddenly engulfed in an ongoing psychosis, and has no frame of reference to understand what is happening, it can be very dangerous, leading to suicide or other desperate acts.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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Sinbad
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Quote:
jonathanseagull said:
Quote:
Veritas said: This sounds like the same "Kundalini Emergency" nonsense that has been brought up on this forum previously.
The Kundalini Emergence/Emergency is not nonsense. When a person is suddenly engulfed in an ongoing psychosis, and has no frame of reference to understand what is happening, it can be very dangerous, leading to suicide or other desperate acts.
Yup. The emergency can also happen for those who seem completely fine, but have underlying tendencies toward psychosis. Also it can have detrimental affects just on those who are merely not spiritually mature enough to handle the experience. This is why one needs a really careful and knowledgeable teacher, and a good foundation in spiritual practice 'before' applying Kundalini practice.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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I'm not saying that psychosis does not exist, I'm saying that blaming Kundalini energy for a psychotic episode is nonsense.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304384 - 08/17/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Still sounds like elitist bunk to me. Each to his own, I suppose. Being scared of one's own life energy seems fairly foolish.
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Sinbad
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304404 - 08/17/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: I'm not saying that psychosis does not exist, I'm saying that blaming Kundalini energy for a psychotic episode is nonsense.
It can 'trigger' a psychosis. I don't remember anyone saying it actually 'causes' it.
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2sky
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Loc: the Dawn
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304416 - 08/17/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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try 'The Book Of Secrets'/Rajneesh (Osho). it explains 112 different tantric meditations - four of which involve sex - and all were created with Devi sitting/conjunction on Shiva's lap asking him questions which he never answers,but in a round about way always does. they are 5000 years old.
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304428 - 08/17/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Any life experience could trigger a psychosis. Blaming a practice which increases our awareness of our own life force is misguided, IMO. None of the teachers whom I have met or whose work I have read adhere to this strict, dogmatic approach to Kundalini practice. The sites on Kundalini "Emergency" seem to include the same internet hysteria that is becoming as common online as porn.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304431 - 08/17/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Still sounds like elitist bunk to me. Each to his own, I suppose. Being scared of one's own life energy seems fairly foolish.
Well, thats you opinion. To me you just sound very ill informed and lacking in experience. The energy is benign and neutral of course, nothing to be afraid of. What meridians and pathways you pass that energy through however definitely has real effects on the mind and of course, the balance of the energy system. If you are not aware of this by now, I wonder what kind of practices you have been doing, and whether you have had any real effects from them at all.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7304433 - 08/17/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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If your quoted "facts" are from Osho's book, then I am not interested in reading it.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304440 - 08/17/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Any life experience could trigger a psychosis. Blaming a practice which increases our awareness of our own life force is misguided, IMO. None of the teachers whom I have met or whose work I have read adhere to this strict, dogmatic approach to Kundalini practice. The sites on Kundalini "Emergency" seem to include the same internet hysteria that is becoming as common online as porn.
What strict dogmatic approach are you harping on about? I'm talking about energy and experience, and how it can have powerful effects on the individual, and how one has to be careful. There is nothing dogmatic, or strict about this, this is called common sense and safety, and if your teachers lack this, then how can they be reputable teachers? IMO they can't.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304442 - 08/17/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Again, any life experience has effects on the mind and body. What support can you offer for your claim that Kundalini practice is dangerous and requires the direction of a "qualified" teacher?
(Besides your personalisms about my lack of experience, that is. )
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304455 - 08/17/07 10:45 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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By strict and dogmatic, I mean teaching students that unguided Kundalini practice can trigger psychosis, that you cannot safely progress along the Tantric path without a teacher, etc...
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304495 - 08/17/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: By strict and dogmatic, I mean teaching students that unguided Kundalini practice can trigger psychosis, that you cannot safely progress along the Tantric path without a teacher, etc...
That is all true, it can trigger psychosis, and you are just ignorant if you think it can't. As for the Tantric path, it depends what you mean by Tantric.
If you think you can go the Tantric path without instruction, its that kind of arrogance that will certainly get you into trouble. In order to learn to drive a car, one needs and instructor. In order to fly an airplane, one relies on a teacher. Same way with Tantra. We utilize very powerful tools, so one needs to get the proper instruction and teaching on how to utilize properly those tools, so that one does not harm oneself. These is all very logical common sense. You do not have to accept any dogma, but you have to know how to work with and handle the intense experiences that can arise from practicing such powerful methods.
I'm not sure what it is you mean by Tantric path, but if its just a hotch potch of your own creation, then it is not 'Tantra', its just that you have labeled as such.
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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 11:33 AM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304531 - 08/17/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Once again, do you have any actual support for your dire warnings, or are you just relying upon what your teachers have told you?
Cars and airplanes are not part of the natural "equipment" of a human being, unlike our energy system. To claim that our own energy is dangerous to us, based upon this invalid comparison, is like saying that walking is dangerous because humans cannot breathe underwater.
By the Tantric Path, I mean the deliberate practice of becoming aware of one's own life energy, and learning to relax and allow this energy to become active in one's body. This can include sexual intercourse, or can be practiced via exercise and/or meditation. This is the essence of Tantric practice, sans religious dogma and elitist nonsense.
Continuing to assert that I am ignorant and arrogant is NOT proving your points. Try again. Here's a hint, repeating over and over again that something is the truth is not a method of supporting your argument. If the answer here is that you choose to believe that unguided Tantric/Kundalini practice is dangerous, so be it. But do not attempt to assert as fact that which you cannot support.
I choose to believe that Tantric/Kundalini practice is as safe as any other personal growth experience, and that one can choose to follow a teacher or to study independently. I base this belief on my own experiences, the experiences of all the Tantra practitioners I have met and read about, the information provided to me by experts whom I trust, and my own common sense.
Edited by Veritas (08/17/07 11:29 AM)
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304569 - 08/17/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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This sect (Aghoris) are altogether a different class 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori
For a more indepth study about their ways and practices, I suggest this book:
http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand-God-Aghora/dp/0914732218/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-2417746-9955947?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187371403&sr=8-2
It was great fun reading this book. It scared me though on the first reading.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304596 - 08/17/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Once again, do you have any actual support for your dire warnings, or are you just relying upon what your teachers have told you?
Cars and airplanes are not part of the natural "equipment" of a human being, unlike our energy system. To claim that our own energy is dangerous to us, based upon this invalid comparison, is like saying that walking is dangerous because humans cannot breathe underwater.
By the Tantric Path, I mean the deliberate practice of becoming aware of one's own life energy, and learning to relax and allow this energy to become active in one's body. This can include sexual intercourse, or can be practice via exercise and/or meditation. This is the essence of Tantric practice, sans religious dogma and elitist nonsense.
Continuing to assert that I am ignorant and arrogant is NOT proving your points. Try again. Here's a hint, repeating over and over again that something is the truth is not a method of supporting your argument.
I have already said that I know people specifically who have had the exact problems that I have mentioned. Go back and read. I don't need to prove my point either, it is self-evident to those that have had experience and know those that have had such experiences.
Our own energy system can become imbalance, and energy can flow through meridians in the body that can produce problems for the mind. Tantric practice utilizes the energy system in very precise ways, to produce certain experiences that are integral to the paths of 'transformation'. You can causes imbalances in your energy system through incorrect utilization of the methods, but since you are not even talking about any such kinds of practices, there is no basis for this discussion.
We are arguing over semantics, because your version of Tantra is only marginally related to the actual Tantric paths that are traditionally practiced. So please, do not confuse this topic of discussion with your own version of what you consider to be Tantra.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304611 - 08/17/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is not "my" version of Tantra, but rather the non-religious practice of Tantra. Some refer to it as Western Tantra, but it is not my invention. 
Since it has become clear that you are invested in your version of the truth, I'll just agree to disagree on this topic. Suffice it to say, for those who are interested in investigating their own energy system, there ARE non-religious paths to follow.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Veritas]
#7304703 - 08/17/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have no 'vested interest' in my 'idea' about the truth. But I do have a vested interest in protecting people that would experiment to there own detriment with powerful tools, that can cause problems if not used correctly with guidance.
It seems to me that perhaps the diluted and watered down version of ' western tantra', probably does not use the tools and methods I'm talking about. Therefore there probably isn't much harm in practicing the form of Tantra you are prescribing, except maybe the delusion of actually practicing an actual 'Tantric' path.
Tantra originated in India you see. You do not have to be 'religious' to receive the benefits of practicing Tantra at all, but you certainly do have to be 'taught' Tantra from someone who has realized its essence and can communicate how to practice it in a precise and safe way. This can only happen if it comes from an authentic lineage that has been taught and practiced in a precise way for thousands of years.
Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.
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Edited by Sinbad (08/17/07 12:25 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304796 - 08/17/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
It seems to me that perhaps the diluted and watered down version of ' western tantra', probably does not use the tools and methods I'm talking about. Therefore there probably isn't much harm in practicing the form of Tantra you are prescribing, except maybe the delusion of actually practicing an actual 'Tantric' path.
This is the dogmatic attitude to which I referred earlier. Any approach which does not include the framework and ritual of the "original" is deemed less-than and ineffective. How do you know that your methodology is the only effective means of practicing Tantra? Because you were told so? *sigh* Many people seem to be experiencing tremendous results from this "watered-down" ( ) version of Tantra. Perhaps your teachers do not know everything there is to know about what works and what does not.
Think outside the box just a little bit...it won't hurt much, I promise.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7304845 - 08/17/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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This can only happen if it comes from an authentic lineage, that has been taught and practiced in a precise way.
Wow, this smacks of the pope insisting that he's the infallible word of God because he can trace his pedigree directly to the disciples.
Religious elitism is always the same whether it's expressed by a suicide bomber, a priest child molester, or a tantra instructor.
My way is the only way, and if you don't buy that, you're ignorant.
This always makes me giggle.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Diploid]
#7305466 - 08/17/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Apparently, the very first practitioners of Tantra suffered severe psychotic breaks which would tend to eradicate the practice entirely, sort of like the first eaters of poisonous berries.
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 10 days
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Apparently, the very first practitioners of Tantra suffered severe psychotic breaks which would tend to eradicate the practice entirely, sort of like the first eaters of poisonous berries.
Nice analogy, but not entirely identical. Dying and a psychotic break aren't even remotely the same thing. A psychotic break could be navigated back then, as it still is now. Although, it is much harder to deal with in this day and age, in our busy societies. But it can be done, as I am a living testament among many. It's a simple warning, and nothing more.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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Archemetis
newbie

Registered: 06/21/04
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Sinbad]
#7307044 - 08/18/07 08:53 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: So if you murder someone with full awareness, you are free from that action? 
thats a nice argument, but i dont think its a real possibility.
i think the point is if your exercise full awarness, you would have no motivation to murder anyone. how could you? how could anyones presence offend you at all? awarness disolves any kind of desire to practice homocide.
lets say someone does offend you to the point were that murderous desire arrises, awarness would shine light on the fact that your emotions are you own, and the outside source is just a mirror. your anger would disolve once you realize it has been a creation of your own ego. then the whole situation becomes hillerious and you probably will never be angry again. (so long as you are aware) you realize that you get to decide how you feel, and the thought of choosing to feel angry or miserable is ridiculous. why have i been doing that for so long?, you laugh to yourself.
Edited by Archemetis (08/18/07 08:59 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7307265 - 08/18/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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How old are you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Icelander]
#7307292 - 08/18/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah, this one seems to have swallowed it hook and sinker, but we should definitely toss the young ones back in the water. but wait a minute, there is a connection.
a weak one but one that can get under the skin of the vulnerable young tripper.
it's the graphics they use.
a mix between porn and psychedelic neon outlining, with fractal fire. using such graphics makes the story more appealing. they use the person's dream familiarity as bait then snare the mind with bull.
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_ 🧠 _
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2sky
a friend of Narnia


Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 119
Loc: the Dawn
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: Icelander]
#7330502 - 08/24/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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63
-------------------- To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968 But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Tantric Facts Of life [Re: 2sky]
#7330544 - 08/24/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just goes to show you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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