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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Xibalba]
    #972276 - 10/18/02 02:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Of course God works in mysterious ways- so mysterious, in fact, that his influence looks just like random chance.

This is probably why many theists are determinists.... so now you know why I get so much flak from theists about the existence of randomness. If randomness exists, it casts doubt on God's "mysterious ways".


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Sclorch]
    #972281 - 10/18/02 02:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Your faith in what you've read IS touching :grin: but having read most of what you are listing I have to say that even these men had great faith in their own ability to reason.Some to the point of egoism.Sartre and Nietchze were in particular some of my favorite reading ,their nihilism and and existential viewpoint reminds me of the void the denial of faith can bring.And yes most of the men you mention Slcorch were not happy ,socialy adjusted people(probably due to their brlliance more than theology)Hence the admonishment of retardation(even the most brilliant CAN be retarded,ie;slowed)As for totaly trusting my opinion.....Treading a bit close to faith eh? :grin: Again it's all in fun, :wink: Yours in faith WR


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972282 - 10/18/02 02:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation?



No, are the religious afflicted with spiritual elitism?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Evolving]
    #972285 - 10/18/02 03:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, are the religious afflicted with spiritual elitism?

In my experience, yes.  :frown: 


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OfflineMajor_Buzz
just like that

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 190
Loc: Left Bank
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Sclorch]
    #972304 - 10/18/02 03:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, are the religious afflicted with spiritual elitism?

In my experience, yes.

You bet your ass we are, and proud of it


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Posts: 1,780
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Evolving]
    #972319 - 10/18/02 03:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The pattern emerges most of you do not recognize the fundamental difference between religion and spirituality.As for proof of God ask any leading edge quantum physicist what started the big bang and most will hem and haw but most are having to face evidence of intelligence in creation(except Hawking,who is incorrect on many levels anyway) BTW an atheist MUST have faith there is no God.So aside from God even, Faith is an immutable fact of existance,You make light of the examples used but seriously tell me that you do not have faith that when you hit a light switch that light will follow and that you are not suprised for a moment when it does not?Does this make you disbelieve in technology?Most people are really searching for a charlton heston/moses/God/movie and the wheel of creation does not spin like that.God has already answered my prayer to word a post to raise questions.Pretty cool huh? Sadly some of you may never know the power and peace associated with the dedication of a portion of ones psyche to something greater and beyond mundanity.This alone is all the "proof" I need of the "existance" of the Intelligence which spawned us. WR :grin:


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972335 - 10/18/02 03:23 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Religious... spiritual... who fucking cares what you identify yourself as?
You're still fucking elitists.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Sclorch]
    #972350 - 10/18/02 03:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sclorch,Chaos theory is quickly ordering the illusion of randomness.We live in a fractal reality so perspective will determine conclusion.So science one day wraps it all up and says this is what ,how ,and why and randomness is just another form of mathmatics.Faith will remain one of the immutable forces of creation,and the aspect of humanity which has caused more progress and pain than any other trait we posess.You cannot logicaly deny Faith, or deny that you must posess it to make assumptions regarding your actions.Lack of faith is inaction,desolution and despair.Think spiritualy not religiously and it makes sense,think egotistcly and it will not. :confused:Any way God luvs ya Sclorch you do more to make folks think about him than an army of mormon missionaries :grin: ROTFALMAO peace,WR :wink:


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Loc: Oregon
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972384 - 10/18/02 03:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Funny that You would call me elitist. I have no elite friends or travel to elite places.I don't eat elite food,and dont have an elite home.My spiritual beliefs accomidate ANY perspective(including yours my friend :grin:) and I have often felt that the blessing of spiritual awareness to be a burden And if I believed in an anthropomorphic "GOD" I too would be inclined to denial of faith. As for elitism....Feh! I am less than nothing but more than something and trying to be more that way :wink: every day :grin:WR
PS don't be so serious folks I wasn't really calling anyone retarded,just havin' some word fun :wink: 


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #972518 - 10/18/02 04:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I have a few things to say about chaos theory...

Why don't you visit the "Law and Chaos" thread...


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InvisibleCosmic_Monkey
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Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 149
Loc: Somewhere between inner-s...
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Xibalba]
    #972549 - 10/18/02 04:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

It leaves your body when you die, but there's no way to tell when it has left.



I don't know what it really means, but, I do remember reading that experiments have concluded that when a person dies their weight drops a small amount at the very moment they go.

As for the belief in a creator a few point I would like to make. I know I'm probably just repeating something thats allready been said but who really cares anyway.

First off I have a hard time believing that matter is going to do anything on it's own without something behind it. To me that's some pretty far-fetched shit to believe. Why would life even want to exist without some driving force behind it?

Also, as for the world being imperfect(seems to be an atheist favorite), to me the world is in every way perfect because that which we find imperfect about it is what gives our lives meaning. The yin-yang of it all, we need bad to know good, unhappiness to know happiness, ect..


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Cosmic_Monkey]
    #972598 - 10/18/02 05:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what it really means, but, I do remember reading that experiments have concluded that when a person dies their weight drops a small amount at the very moment they go.

(Where's Swami when stuff like this pops up?)
Ahem... coughBullshit!cough...

Also, as for the world being imperfect(seems to be an atheist favorite), to me the world is in every way perfect because that which we find imperfect about it is what gives our lives meaning.

I've always thought that the world is perfectly imperfect...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #973486 - 10/19/02 12:18 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

My Lady and I are very interested in learning different kinds of personality or typology theories. For example, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, the Enneagram, Astrology, Color Types, Scheldon's Constitutional Psychology, etc.

I've been making a long study of various schools of religious thought, that were rivals for what eventually became Christianity. Those schools are collectively referred to as Gnostic, and Gnosticism (hence my tag). I have come to realize that I am not a Gnostic, but I have retained certain Gnostic ideas. The main one concerns three types of human beings, typed with regard to their capacity for spirituality. Although I have not agreed with the metaphysics behind the Gnostic definition of the spiritual type, or 'Pneumatic,' it seems evident that there are Pneumatic individuals whose lives are taken up in a greater degree than the other types, by what we call spiritual or transpersonal dimensions of life. Pneumatics can be found in all the world religious traditions, and outside of them (pagan gnostics). Pneuma is Greek for spirit (or air, for that matter: pneumatic, pneumonia).

The intermediate type person was called 'Psychic,' one whose life was characterized by the psyche, which is Greek for soul. This was the life of mind, and all that mind entails. Christians who insisted upon hammering out their salvation with faith and good works, were considered by Pneumatic Christian Gnostics to be of a lesser degree of understanding, yet salvation could be attained by the Christian of 'faith' while the Christian of Gnosis had been privy to spiritual experiences that left a sense of 'assurance' and one of an intrinsic spiritual identity. Psyche is of a different order of being than Spirit, yet everyone has both of these components, though spirit predominates in the Pneumatic, while Psyche predominates in the psychic.

The Sarkic is the third type, sarx meaning 'flesh' in Greek. Such people are almost wholly identified with their bodies, bodily functions and activities, and conceed the psychic or mental dimension only as an extension of their bodies. Today's materialists who consider consciousness to be produced by neural tissue, in conjunction with the rest of the bodily systems, would be considered Sarkic. Spiritual reality is not apparent to the Sarkic person. Descriptions of spiritual dimensions, or the implication for human morality and conduct based on spiritual reality is simply not experienced by the Sarkic, and hence denied as fiction. They do not know, and say as much, making them 'agnostics,' not knowing, as opposed to Gnostics - those who Know [i.e., God].

This is a very old system of psychological theory, and the one which C. G. Jung delved into, brought to the awareness of moderns, and based his own school of psychology on. The ego difficulties are tremendous. Everyone is at odds with each other: Pneumatics accused of elitism and arrogance, Sarkics for being dumb brutes, Psychics for different reasons from the other two camps... Even the perspective which stands back and sees these distinctions falls into the Pneumatic typology. We are what we are, and the relationships that form between the types of people are doomed to a kind of sectarianism. I do not get along with very materialistic people, or very mechanical born-again types. I DO have relationships with other people, but I get closest with those people who have had certain life-changing spiritual experiences, and who chose not to sell-out and forget them, but to spend their lives clarifying and explaining to themselves and others who want to listen and know.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinevaporbrains
Cub Scout

Registered: 09/09/02
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Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: whiterasta]
    #973564 - 10/19/02 12:57 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

perhaps you simply cannot grasp the concept of reason?


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: Is atheism a form of spiritual retardation? [Re: Cosmic_Monkey]
    #974150 - 10/19/02 06:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

That comment about about losing weight made me think of a joke:
Teacher: O.K children I want to know what your dad does for a living.
Susy: My dads a carpenter:
Teacher: very nice suzy.
Teacher: what about you Johnny?
Johnny: my dads dead!
Teacher: Oh I'm sorry, what did he do before he died?
Johnny: he turned blue and shit on the rug.



Maybe your thinking of the air and feces that leaves your body when you die, did you know that before they kiil someone on death row they put a diaper on them?
Again science returns an obsurd volley dealt form a "follower"


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


Edited by sir tripsalot (10/19/02 06:06 AM)


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