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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
    #28293307 - 04/24/23 04:22 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

we are basically talking about the same thing
spectrum certainly applies to all the varieties of waking experience.
-
I am more focused on mental states with C-T feedback and varying with the duration of C-T feedback loops, - the rest is mental contents: sensation, associative memory, perception and recent mental contents.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28294119 - 04/25/23 02:00 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

If we don't have an eeg to measure activity, how can we recognise or be aware of cortico-thalamic feedback loops? I presume that being able to recognise the state of awareness they are in, and repeating it would lead to the development of longer durations of the feedback loop. But how is it originally recognised without technological dependence?

Would you correlate C-T feedback to mindfulness or meditation or something else?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28294202 - 04/25/23 05:03 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

C-T feedback is noticeable only by effect, it supports associative memory formation, sensation, and perception (aka waking consciousness) - there are no mental contents without it. no stream of consciousness with changing mental contents. If you are aware that you are awake C-T feedback is operating and each neuron pair is looping 3 loops at least.

C-T feedback is also noticeable by the REM dream effect, rapid eye movements indicating that a sleeping person is in a dream, a form of consciousness that does not normally support incoming sensation but does have cascading mental contents - perceptions from perceptions and associative memory is formed during the dream of that content - in the dream the feedback cycles are usually longer than 3 supporting hallucinogenic and emotional experiences.

A sleeping person with no dream underway, has little or no C-T feedback happening.

There is no difference between mindfulness and ordinary consciousness, except for the addition of self-reflective mental contents: however as mental contents are  sustained (by concentration), the short term memory (set of recently activated cortical neurons (for the last 5 minutes) which are easier to perceptively reactivate than other resting cortical neurons) becomes more of a constant pattern.

Therefore, after doing concentration for 5 minutes with good discipline habits, the concentrative feedback (re-activation of neurons that were recently active)  becomes somewhat self sustaining, thus triggering Jhana effects, beginning with joy/euphoria and THAT alters the duration of feedback loops from 3 cycles for normal sensation + perception + memory formation to 7 or more feedback cycles per sensory signal or perceptive reflex.

So if concentration is working, after 5 mins solid, the resonant state of mind will become a hallucinogenic or visionary state. It will seem hyper clear, and perceptually ramified, and the passage of time will seem to have slowed down immensely.

I do not correlate C-T feedback to anything in our lexicon other than supports sensation, associative memory formation, and perception.

I should mention that the 6 layer cortex which operates faster (20-30hz) than C-T feedback (~10hz) treats small zones of cortical activation in such a way as to suppress unchanging signals, in that way, if something changes or moves in a field of vision, or an ongoing rhythm of sounds, or a pattern of itches, then we notice that change immediately. Because of this natural suppression of what is unchanging, the practice of concentration is especially difficult, although yoking it to the breath which is always changing, is an effective way to proceed with meditation and mindfulness.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28294217 - 04/25/23 05:23 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

So you're suggesting that after practicing sustained concentration for about 5 minutes, the feedback loops in the C-T feedback system may begin to change in duration, with each sensory signal or perceptive reflex looping through 7 or more cycles instead of the usual 3. And that this change in feedback loop duration may be accompanied by the onset of Jhana effects?

Because if so, couldn't the change in feedback loop duration and the onset of Jhana effects be accompanied by changes in brainwave patterns that are detectable by EEG measurements.

EEG measurements that can detect changes in the brainwave patterns associated with different mental states and describe them in terms of their frequency in Hz.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly] * 3
    #28294226 - 04/25/23 05:34 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
So you're suggesting that after practicing sustained concentration for about 5 minutes, the feedback loops in the C-T feedback system may begin to change in duration, with each sensory signal or perceptive reflex looping through 7 or more cycles instead of the usual 3. And that this change in feedback loop duration may be accompanied by the onset of Jhana effects?

Because if so, couldn't the change in feedback loop duration and the onset of Jhana effects be accompanied by changes in brainwave patterns that are detectable by EEG measurements.

EEG measurements that can detect changes in the brainwave patterns associated with different mental states and describe them in terms of their frequency in Hz.




EEG is a bit too gross, the detection is of a large population of neural discharge. however, very high resolution live recording of charge fluctuations in the cortex would show a difference after five minutes.

the traditional terms in meditation texts of yore describe the onset of jahna as
initial application (of concentration) being supplanted by sustained concentration (i.e. less effort)
and joy.
often some physical vibrance (tremor) may set in - and that is referred to as a manifestation of joy but it is reflex C-T feedback in skeletal musculature.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28294714 - 04/25/23 12:12 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

15 mins is attainable.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28294721 - 04/25/23 12:16 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

today I did zero due to driving people to the hospital for a visit with an elderly convalescent. 4 legs of 15 miles each in city traffic, now I'm hitting the thc.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28294733 - 04/25/23 12:24 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

that's a mighty feat imho,
true effort applied in the world,
with & for others + the mutual benefit.

Too many times I've seemed to be almost like a magnet for drunk drivers.  As if my body appears to them like an ABC store or something. :picard:

Now I limit my driving to well within my limits, under specific conditions (if possible), and still- with much padding added -just in case...

Too many accidents caused me to develop a strange condition wrt driving that has had efx on other areas of my life unfortunately.  "Always a silver lining" wrt The Road =  Nowadays I presume nearly everyone on the road is drunk and texting as a precautionary measure to help me cope. :lol::sadyes:

Anywho,


Your snack is well deserved. :grin: :birdfeed:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28294771 - 04/25/23 12:59 PM (8 months, 30 days ago)

only minor altercations on the road and no guns were pulled. phew!
I never want to drive anywhere but am often a designated taxi.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28297022 - 04/26/23 11:28 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I'm just here to say thank you. :heart: I don't know how you figured all of this out but it is true.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
    #28297176 - 04/27/23 05:07 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I'm just here to say thank you. :heart: I don't know how you figured all of this out but it is true.



you are welcome, 50 years of investigation and pondering about pondering, accelerated by salvia divinorum over the last 18 years.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28297496 - 04/27/23 11:24 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

How do you use it? I haven't tried it in over a decade and had extremely unpleasant experiences each time that left me unable to remember any of what happened.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #28297529 - 04/27/23 11:49 AM (8 months, 28 days ago)

there is a direct relationship with the size of the dose and the range of effects called the salvia scale, I dose to reach visionary, and occasionally get into immaterial which is very weird, and unintentional, almost never do I go as far as amnesiac, but if I double my dose I get there sometimes.

check this list of postings:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/dosearch.php?forum%5B%5D=&words=salvinorin+paper&namebox=redgreenvines&replybox=&how=all&where=body&tosearch=both&newerval=&newertype=y&olderval=3&oldertype=y&minwords=&maxwords=&limit=25&sort=r&way=d


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28297622 - 04/27/23 12:56 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

You have done some impressive stuff, RGVs! :heart:

Now do 101 basics of how I can become God! :peace:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28297666 - 04/27/23 01:29 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
You have done some impressive stuff, RGVs! :heart:

Now do 101 basics of how I can become God! :peace:



I don't do time travel


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28297703 - 04/27/23 01:58 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

So what you are saying is I am God?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28297776 - 04/27/23 03:50 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

way in the past


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28298870 - 04/28/23 12:31 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

I am God and it is pure peace, love and empathy! :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28298876 - 04/28/23 12:36 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

if that is what you mean, then that is what you are.
how do you want to deal with the fact that I don't like reading the word god in these posts.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28298882 - 04/28/23 12:39 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

My apologies, bro.


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