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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts...
    #3381034 - 11/18/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Ever thought about how much change u are capable of ?
Think of something that has been programmed into u by
society/parents/environment etc... pick something very
specific and that seems to have no logical reason why
u like/dislike it. e.g. if u just are NOT attracted to
fat Women (or Men)... can u change that ? would it not be
benificial if u could be attracted to people who are
generally considered "ugly" (sorry for being so
non-Politically correct, but I want u to be frank and honest
with yourself) ?
would it not make your life easier and open your field ?
I could go one step further and say "wouldn't it be nice to
not be attracted to anyone" but then one could argue that
sexual attraction is natural. But what about people who are
overweight (not necessarily even obese, but just overweight,
perhaps with a fat nose etc etc).
yet how many of us can change in this way (honestly) ?
yet we expect ourselves (or others) to be able to
reprogram ourselves when it comes to Depression/Anxiety or
other things (getting over relationships etc)...
think, ponder...twist that mind into a knot and then
get back to me :wink:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3381058 - 11/18/04 08:40 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

"I hate fat people, I just really hate what it says about there personality." - dave foley, the kids in the hall

sorry i did'nt answer your question, that's all i got.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3381062 - 11/18/04 08:41 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

very nice lucid. i always say that 25% of us is were we were born. another 25% is our DNA. 50%!!!! is how we deal with life. and that 50% is hard.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381077 - 11/18/04 08:44 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

If my example does NOT appeal/apply to u then think of something
yourself...be honest with yourself...something that you've taken
for granted as being "natural", but when u really think about it
it has no reason behind it and is in fact not very useful
(perhaps even unproductive and frustrating)...
can u change this (and not thro denial but real change,
something that makes the new belief/appeal as powerful
as the old one)? if so, how ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3381111 - 11/18/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Lucid, I could give you a couple very real examples, but I already did so in another thread... *shrug*


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3381187 - 11/18/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Yup Thanks JC.
But I'm hoping for something diff here, not just Depression
or Anxeity, but things like beauty etc.
I mean can u get yourself to like FAT women JC ?
isn't there anything that u currently anything that
u believe/like which has no apparent "reason" ?
something that's perhaps getting in your way...
can u change that belief/like/dislike ?
if so how would u do it ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


Edited by lucid (11/18/04 09:06 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3381297 - 11/18/04 09:23 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

What I'm trying to get at here JC (and everyone else)
is that "I do NOT have to actively sustain my
likes/dislikes thro constant internal dialogue" i.e.
I don't have to keep telling myself I like slim women
with cute little button noses or thin noses (I definitely
don't like the anorexic model look)... it's just
an immediate response in me. In your case, u yourself said
u have to actively tell yourself stuff to counteract your
feelings. That's different. You're battling for peace,
as opposed to not needing to start a war in the first place.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3381383 - 11/18/04 09:46 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I mean can u get yourself to like FAT women JC ?

Refrain from sex for a month. Drink one fifth of Jack Daniels on an empty stomach and go to your local bar at closing time. :humpme:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: Swami]
    #3383473 - 11/19/04 11:33 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

:lol: LMAO :lol:
Actually, I currently have a very low libido due to SSRIs,
and sex (i.e. the need for "release") has little appeal for me.
But I can still find someone "beautiful" or "ugly" - like pattern
recognition - just like I can find some scenery  pretty or ugly...
and in a sense it is "appealing" in that I would not want to live
in an ugly place, and would not want to have an "ugly" girl friend
(regardless of whether we have sex or not).
But I cannot seem to change this appeal inside of me. And by change,
I mean a REAL change - i.e. to the extent that the new behavior is
as powerful and automatic as the old. To try and be clearer, I mean
that "CHANGE" for me would be that I would like that "ugly"
place/person just as powerfully as I currently like a "beautiful"
place/person. So, the new "belief/appeal" needs to be as ingrained
and powerful as the old one...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3383528 - 11/19/04 11:49 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

fore some reason, and no reason at all, a picture of a little girl sitting in front of a wasted toxic, destructed smelly awful dark city, painting a nice colorful picture of nice big houses, the sun is shining etc..

just that :wink:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: Gomp]
    #3383584 - 11/19/04 12:15 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
fore some reason, and no reason at all, a picture of a little girl sitting in front of a wasted toxic, destructed smelly awful dark city, painting a nice colorful picture of nice big houses, the sun is shining etc..

just that :wink:




Just that was pretty cool!  :thumbup: It made me smile big.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3383606 - 11/19/04 12:23 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
What I'm trying to get at here JC (and everyone else)
is that "I do NOT have to actively sustain my
likes/dislikes thro constant internal dialogue" i.e.
I don't have to keep telling myself I like slim women
with cute little button noses or thin noses (I definitely
don't like the anorexic model look)... it's just
an immediate response in me. In your case, u yourself said
u have to actively tell yourself stuff to counteract your
feelings. That's different. You're battling for peace,
as opposed to not needing to start a war in the first place.




The process of change by choice involves active choice. That's a given. After a while, though, you essentially "reprogram" the bad programming. It requires CONSCIOUS EFFORT, that is a better way to describe it than saying i'm "battling for peace".

It is an uphill climb, man. Nobody said inner work was easy. But I can personally say from experience that it is MUCH EASIER for me to keep my head clear of depressing thoughts now than it was a year ago. I have begun the process. I may not have it down stone cold yet (I have my bad days) but that is part of the fucking climb, man.

It would be nice if we didn't have to "start a war in the first place". But some of us are not that lucky. (Such as me and you.) Some of us have to work for it. That is life.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3383639 - 11/19/04 12:33 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
So, the new "belief/appeal" needs to be as ingrained
and powerful as the old one...




It sounds to me like you are looking for the easy way out.

Let me be blunt: There isn't one.

You can't just snap your fingers and POOF, the new belief will be as ingrained and powerful as the old one.

HOWEVER, if you stick with it and are persistantly consciously aware and correcting of your own thoughts, you WILL reprogram yourself.

Listen, I know the idea of "self-brainwashing" isn't very appealing at first glance... but think about it: You have the opportunity to fix your life. You just have to try. Depression makes you not want to try, I know. But that is part of the negative downward spiral.

This so-called self-brainwashing DOES WORK. You can CHOOSE to only allow thoughts that you consider healthy for yourself. Yes, it requires "going against the grain" internally. This is because you are already in a very negative place. To get back to positive, you obviously will have to go against the grain.

YOU know what is healthy for yourself mentally. This is evident, because you are here posting "How do I get rid of this problem?" instead of sitting around wallowing in self-pity 24/7. You are NOT beyond self-help.

Think about it. Someone who is so far gone that they don't even seek out a cure, that is someone who is beyond self-help. LITERALLY. It is the literal explanation of their state.

You, on the other hand, are actively seeking a way out. There is a part of you that knows what you don't want inside your head, and what you do want inside your head. LISTEN TO THAT PART.

P.S. Go read the response Bassvikinggod left for you in your other thread if you haven't yet. (Infact, even if you have, go read it again.)


Edited by JacquesCousteau (11/19/04 12:39 PM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3383645 - 11/19/04 12:35 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

double-post.


Edited by JacquesCousteau (11/19/04 12:38 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3383734 - 11/19/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

""You can't just snap your fingers and POOF, the new belief will be as ingrained and powerful as the old one.""

why not?
:confused: :thumbup:


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


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Offlinenamesash
Guntotindemonslayer
Registered: 04/07/04
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: Gomp]
    #3384334 - 11/19/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

The brain can get sick just like any other organ, and there are medicines for it. Depression is a sickness, you are only kidding yourself when you say you can reprogram yourself out of a depression.. Maybe you can temporarily, but it'll come back with vengeance. Interesting fact: "Of those who have had a single major depressive episode, 50%-60% may develop a second one. About 70% of those who have had two episodes may have a third, and 90% who have had three may have a fourth."


--------------------
"Where's your will to be weird?" -jimmy morrison


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Offlinenamesash
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: namesash]
    #3384368 - 11/19/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

There is an easy way out. I've had several bouts of depression, the last triggered by a shroom trip and I found that the fairly quick and easy method of getting back to my old normal self was medicine. They aren't 'happy drugs', they just make you functional again, make you feel normal. There was no reason for me to be depressed except depression itself.


--------------------
"Where's your will to be weird?" -jimmy morrison


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OfflineGomp
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: namesash]
    #3384375 - 11/19/04 03:02 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

"only kidding yourself when you say you can reprogram yourself out of a depression.."

are you kidd - ing?

:confused: :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: lucid]
    #3384596 - 11/19/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Any change of any personal preference, imposed by culture, personal experiences, etc. etc. is possible as long as one identifies the need, or at least the desire, to change, understands the necessary steps for changing, and then actually takes the conscious iniative to change.

Quote:

lucid said:
What I'm trying to get at here JC (and everyone else)
is that "I do NOT have to actively sustain my
likes/dislikes thro constant internal dialogue" i.e.
I don't have to keep telling myself I like slim women
with cute little button noses or thin noses (I definitely
don't like the anorexic model look)... it's just
an immediate response in me. In your case, u yourself said
u have to actively tell yourself stuff to counteract your
feelings. That's different. You're battling for peace,
as opposed to not needing to start a war in the first place.




Obviously you do not have to sustain your currently held preferences and addictions through consant internal dialogue because they have already been identified, accepted, and justified to the point that they run independant of conscious awareness. This doesn't give these internalized, subconscious thought patterns any seniority or unquestionable power unless you yourself give them that power. You may not be aware of it, but each thought is chosen to be thought in every moment. It is either chosen by means of one's conscious awareness, or chosen by a mental program that creates thoughts. Not only this, but other mental programs can be running in the background that prevent these other thoughts from being observed consciously.

These programs are like key loggers and data miners that run impervious to the user sitting at their computer, no program window box appearing and no little icon down in the corner by the clock visible. Only by making the conscious choice to hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete and check through the list of running applications and processes will we find these programs and then become conscious of their running, which is the first step towards eliminating them. :lol:

When it comes to something that is merely aesthetic preference, while change certainly is possible, it doesn't really affect one's experience of reality to a degree where a change is needed. In your case, these internal processes are really causing a devastating amount of psychological pain, suffering, and are creating a vast degree of seperation from the perception of reality. Not only this, but you realize this and are looking for ways to completely cure this. The seriousness of this problem alone should be far than enough to motivate you to root out the problem once and for all, but the complex even has you questioning why it is necessary to eliminate it in the first place. Its roots have started growing in your plumbing. Time to call the roto rooter man. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: How Much can YOU CHANGE ?... provoking your thoughts... [Re: namesash]
    #3384759 - 11/19/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I disagree with you.

I think that inner healing and hard work lead to improved state of mind. I have experienced it first hand.

I have also tried anti-depressants. They made me feel unnatural, and inhuman. They were not the answer for me.


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