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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Fuck Yourself
    #977646 - 10/20/02 07:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Here's an thought-line that I was playing with a while back.
*invokes temporary belief system*

1. Solipsism:
If the only consciousness in this place is me (or you... whatever), then can I change things by will alone? Not just the "work hard- you'll change things" mantra. I'm talking about the Matrix "change things"... you know- flying around, walking through walls & on water, dodging bullets... that kind of stuff.

If I can't do this stuff... it doesn't necessarily disprove solipsism, BUT it does mean that there is a system of "internal laws" that I cannot escape. If that is the case, then how did these laws "get there"?

2. Fractal Reality (determinism, collective consciousness, we are all god, etc.):
If I'm a branch of god... then I'm a branch of the will that governs this universe (or IS this universe or.... whatever). That being said, my mental fractal is only a partial view of the Great Fractal that is "God". Assuming I can shape my mental fractal (compatibilist's "free will") to match that of the Great Fractal... can I CHANGE the universe at my will? Or will I be forced to adopt the will of the Great Fractal?


Note: Sclorch does not necessarily think any of the above is true... it's just a thought experiment.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Edited by Sclorch (10/20/02 11:21 PM)


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Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
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Registered: 08/16/02
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Re: Will and change... [Re: Sclorch]
    #977683 - 10/20/02 08:16 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Obey the Great Fractal...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #978192 - 10/20/02 11:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I just want more views & replies.... sorry if the title misled you.

*click click*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineLittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat

Registered: 08/31/02
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #978244 - 10/20/02 11:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Solipsism? in your dreams. But i mean it, in your dreams, the main principal is that you are the only consiousness, in your dreams you can do what you want with no limitations but your own. So when consious and in the world with many other lifeforms, you must all obey the same laws.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Offlinejayson
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: LittleBen]
    #978319 - 10/21/02 12:18 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In a dream, only when you realise that you are dreaming, can you break the rules. Perhaps life is similar


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Offlinedrenaline
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Registered: 10/06/02
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: jayson]
    #978336 - 10/21/02 12:26 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

see the related post titled 'lucid dreaming' in this forum


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Anonymous

Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: jayson]
    #978361 - 10/21/02 12:34 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting thought. Isn't that what Tibetan Buddhism is all about?


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OfflineNomad
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Registered: 04/30/02
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #978725 - 10/21/02 04:50 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If that is the case, then how did these laws "get there"?

Hey, we covered that already, no? There can never be an explanation for how things "got there", regardless if you subscribe to solipsism or realism or whatever. If you had an explanation for how things "got there", that explanation would itself have "got there", which means that the explanation would have to be it's own explanation, and, therefore, complete bullshit.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Nomad]
    #979320 - 10/21/02 09:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I like the fractal analogy and have used it myself to describe the fractal holographic nature of creation.You posit us as a part of the "greater fractal" but fractal images are all identical except in scale so perhaps the solopsism you refer would occur on a scale comensurate with our relative scale compared to the "great fractal" and We actually do control a small portion of reality in a 'Matrix" type way.I refer to the way obsevation of minute events can alter the outcome.Perhaps this is our "domain of control" and as we gain more insight and a larger perspective of the fractal universe our abilities to affect the material plane will possibly grow beyond affecting the outcome of particle experiments.Perhaps all one needs to do is "ask' for your desire from a greater fractal node that has  control over the condition you wish to affect .I believe the underlying fractal skeleton of creation to be the abode all knowlege(knowlege exists as a independent force separate of humanities interpretation (The tulku Tarthang) )This is from whence ALL real particles are actualized from and where the order of the universe arises.I call it GOD but many lables would fit.All I know for sure is this intelligence is interested and involved in the mechanics of it's creation  :cool:WR


--------------------
To old for this place


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: whiterasta]
    #979385 - 10/21/02 10:37 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for your comments (though I'd like more).

I believe the underlying fractal skeleton of creation to be the abode all knowlege(knowlege exists as a independent force separate of humanities interpretation)

Sounds like Plato (the original).

Perhaps all one needs to do is "ask' for your desire from a greater fractal node that has control over the condition you wish to affect.

'Ask'? What does this mean?
Do you mean prayer?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #979401 - 10/21/02 10:54 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You can call it what ever your comfortable with it is just a communication between nodes in the fractal we as humans share a fractal position in perspective and dimension so our interaction "appears to be linked" by a shared perspective.Should one be able to shift perspective higher or lower within the fractal communication with other nodes of intelligence should become possible.If one were able to encompass the entire fractal reality(or any peice since as a fractal all portions are the same)one would then commune with the implicit order of creation (God if you'll allow the generalization :wink: )I would like to go  further with this later Sclorch,I think we MAy have some common ground for an interesting disscusssion.BTW have you read any of the Tulku Tarthang's work? he disscusses implicit order and the dimension of information,A very good if dry read of about 1200 pages but incredible insight into just what we are discussing .....More later Mon  :wink:WR


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To old for this place


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #981467 - 10/22/02 01:08 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:ooo:

Instant manifestation of thought is a way of life in higher densities of spiritual incarnation. The ability to effect your environment and manifest your reality according to your thoughts comes with the territory. This ability comes with the realization of connection with All That Is (God, whatever) and awareness of all things and yourself as a divine sovereign creature of creation.

We are all a small part of the fractal, yet within each of us is a whole other fractal as great as the original. Like an acorn in an oak tree, part of the tree yet potential for another forest of trees.

The "internal laws" that bind us to physical reality is not any law at all. It is only perception and belief. These things exist for a reason, but they are meant to be overcome, transcended. Once an opening of perception occurs, and the belief system is allowed to become flexible, reality changes, and we can attune to the more subtle spiritual energies that coexist with us in the physical. Once we are aware of these energies, and how they interact with the material plane, we can further understand the "big picture". Big picture being the nature of ourselves and the universe... a.k.a... as above, so below. This perception gives us a greater insight into the workings of reality, and how we effect it.

With comprehension and understanding of spiritual energies, comes the ability to begin using them to affect the physical reality as well as spiritual. 


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Shroomism]
    #982198 - 10/22/02 09:33 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"The "internal laws" that bind us to physical reality is not any law at all. It is only perception and belief. These things exist for a reason, but they are meant to be overcome, transcended. Once an opening of perception occurs, and the belief system is allowed to become flexible, reality changes, and we can attune to the more subtle spiritual energies that coexist with us in the physical. Once we are aware of these energies, and how they interact with the material plane, we can further understand the "big picture"."

Man, I didn't think the ideas ^^^^ could ever be so concisely expressed.
Shroomism!! 

Do you believe it's possible for one to reach this level of understanding (or belief  :wink:) without ever taking a psychedelic like mushrooms or LSD?

Are these concepts something that can be taught to young children?   


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Shroomism]
    #982401 - 10/22/02 11:28 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Sclorch: So, uh, you're telling me I can stop bulle... er TRAINS?!
Shroomorpheus: I'm saying that when you're ready... you won't have to.
Sclorch: Okay, you go first *ties Shroomism down to railroad tracks*
*HOOOOOONK HOOOOOOONK chugga chugga chugga chugga HOOOOOONK*
Shroomorpheus: Sclorch! Seriously,,, dude! I wasn't serious... oh shit oh shit oh shit.... HURRY UNTIE ME!!!
Shroomorpheus: ...ohshitohshitohshitohshit...*pant pant pant*....ohshitohshitohshit...none of this is real... none of this is real.... none of this is real...
Sclorch: Dude... just stop it. *long draw on a fat blunt* 10...9...8..
Shroomorpheus: QUIT FUCKING AROUND SCLORCH!! UNTIE ME, MAN! I'M GONNA DIIIIIIE!! UNTIE MEEEeeeeee..... ourfatherwhoartinheaven...
*HOOOOOOOONK HOOOOOONK....*
Sclorch: 3....2....ONE!!!
Shroomorpheus: AAAUUUUUUUGHHGHHGLKSD...*sploprsheplsh*...
Sclorch: Awww... FUCK!
*Swami picks up rock and throws it at the back of what was Shroomorpheus' head*
Swami: AHA!!

{Note: The above was a dramatization. It never happened, and it does not explain Shroomism's conspicuous absence of late (or Swami's).}


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Edited by Sclorch (10/22/02 11:31 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #982465 - 10/22/02 12:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Nice illustration Sclorch.

Reality is it what exists despite denials, despite blindness to it. Reality is what remains when the hallucinations stop, it imposes itself upon you even when you can't perceive it. We should not confuse an incomplete or faulty grasp of reality with the absence of it.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (10/22/02 12:01 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Evolving]
    #983158 - 10/22/02 03:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Reality is what remains when the hallucinations stop

Does reality continue after I die? Why must my reality be your reality?

Reality is it what exists despite denials, despite blindness to it.

Reality is a product of dualism... a product of paradox...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Sclorch]
    #983589 - 10/22/02 05:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Morphing dreams into reality...


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #984052 - 10/22/02 07:34 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"Do you believe it's possible for one to reach this level of understanding (or belief ) without ever taking a psychedelic like mushrooms or LSD?"

well its hard to say about breaking the initial barrier, but once its been done it seems like later generations would be able to "catch on" to whatever we're talking about ;-) and not require psychedelics.... mckenna was once talking about how he and other people who've done DMT have had the real DMT experience in their sleep... not dreaming it, but like actually having the real thing happen.. so its possible for somethign like that to happen, however, so far somebody would have already have to have done it - imagine teaching our children to do this at an early age (trigger this experience without using any drugs ever), and there goes "the drug problem"

sorry... got a bit off-course.... but here i go i'll post it anyway >click<


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Posts: 8,152
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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Strumpling]
    #984072 - 10/22/02 07:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

its possible to achieve that state of mind without drugs... i quit all drugs about 1 year ago, and i am still learning, experiencing and evolving spritually...
and i think it is even possible to achieve it without ever have taken drugs... my mom is an example for it... there is many, many more for sure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Fuck Yourself [Re: Strumpling]
    #984075 - 10/22/02 07:41 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Strumpling.... you're taking this thread on a tangent that is already currently being addressed (and has been addressed over and over and over...) in another thread.

Please stick to the topic... namely, the original post.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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