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Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate)
    #1518833 - 05/04/03 01:53 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

This is kind of long but I think its really interesting and I would like your feedback. Its a conversation/debate between me and a friend resulting from an online test posted in this thread about the levels of Hell. The conversation is edited for clarity but otherwise has been uncut.

Censored_Name: interesting indeed
Censored_Name: take the test
Spiffy: wtf!?
Spiffy: what did you get??
Censored_Name: I dont know, what did you get
Spiffy: The Dante's Inferno Test has banished you to the Eigth Level of Hell - the Malebolge!
Here is how you matched up against all the levels:
Level | Score
Purgatory | Low
Level 1 - Limbo | High
Level 2 | High
Level 3 | Moderate
Level 4 | Very Low
Level 5 | Low
Level 6 - The City of Dis | Very Low
Level 7 | Moderate
Level 8- the Malebolge | High
Level 9 - Cocytus | Low
Censored_Name: damn
Spiffy: what??
Censored_Name: I was in the 1st level
Spiffy: damn?
Spiffy: wtf?
Spiffy: I answered honestly?
Censored_Name: no wonder your so messed up lol
Spiffy: fuck you?
Censored_Name: just kidding
Spiffy: fuck a stupid christian biased test?
Censored_Name: its not christian
Spiffy: just because I like sex and hold pagan beliefs doesn't land me in hell?
Spiffy: I also believe in helping people and being kind to those I love?
Censored_Name: hell is in the 3rd dimension
Spiffy: I'm taking this fucking test again?
Censored_Name: this is level 1
Censored_Name: Level 1 - Limbo
Charon ushers you across the river Acheron, and you find yourself upon the brink of grief's abysmal valley. You are in Limbo, a place of sorrow without torment. You encounter a seven-walled castle, and within those walls you find rolling fresh meadows illuminated by the light of reason, whereabout many shades dwell. These are the virtuous pagans, the great philosophers and authors, unbaptised children, and others unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven. You share company with Caesar, Homer, Virgil, Socrates, and Aristotle. There is no punishment here, and the atmosphere is peaceful, yet sad.
Spiffy: wtf?
Censored_Name: Level 8- the Malebolge
Many and varied sinners suffer eternally in the multi-leveled Malebolge, an ampitheatre-shapped pit of despair Wholly of stone and of an iron colour: Those guilty of fraudulence and malice; the seducers and pimps, who are whipped by horned demons; the hypocrites, who struggle to walk in lead-lined cloaks; the barraters, who are ducked in boiling pitch by demons known as the Malebranche. The simonists, wedged into stone holes, and whose feet are licked by flames, kick and writhe desperately. The magicians, diviners, fortune tellers, and panderers are all here, as are the thieves. Some wallow in human excrement. Serpents writhe and wrap around men, sometimes fusing into each other. Bodies are torn apart. When you arrive, you will want to put your hands over your ears because of the lamentations of the sinners here, who are afflicted with scabs like leprosy, and lay sick on the ground, furiously scratching their skin off with their nails. Indeed, justice divine doth smite them with its hammer.
Spiffy: thats such fucking bullshit it makes me want to puke?
Spiffy: how can you say this test isn't christian?
Spiffy: These are the virtuous pagans, the great philosophers and authors, unbaptised children, and others unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Spiffy: unfit to enter the kingdom?of heaven
Spiffy: innocent unbaptised babies?
Censored_Name: it is not christian
Spiffy: what is it than??
Censored_Name: satanist
Spiffy: why did you want me to take this test?
Spiffy: it has only upset me?
Censored_Name: why
Spiffy: because its trying to say that I'm evil?
Spiffy: and I'm not?
Spiffy: the only things on that test I answered that would cause that are sexual and owning an SUV and believeing in tarot and paganism?
Spiffy: does that justify saying I belong in the pits of hell?
Spiffy: fuck that?
Censored_Name: we've all been there
Spiffy: umm?
Spiffy: I'm a good person?
Spiffy: I care about others?
Spiffy: I don't cheat or lie or beat up on people?
Spiffy: I try to give to those less fortunate?
Spiffy: I stand by my loved ones?
Spiffy: this equals the pits of hell??
Censored_Name: the levels of hell represent human nature's dark virtues on the physical realm
Censored_Name: whether you reside in them or not
Censored_Name: it shows where you spend your time when you are there
Spiffy: its a stupid ass fucked up online test?
Spiffy: it doesn't mean shit?
Censored_Name: ok
Censored_Name: dont blow a gasket
Spiffy: I'm fucking pissed off?
Censored_Name: alright
Spiffy: I just don't see how I got 8 and you got 2?
Spiffy: I'm looking through these questions trying to see how you would answer them and I don't see your answers being much different from mine?
Spiffy: unless you weren't honest?
Censored_Name: I was completely honest
Spiffy: do you look at pornography?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: do you masturbate often?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: no?!?!?!?!?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: you masturabte more than me?
Spiffy: and I do it often
Censored_Name: how do you know?
Spiffy: because you tell me?
Censored_Name: when was the last time I masturbated?
Spiffy: this week?
Censored_Name: when before that
Spiffy: last week?
Censored_Name: I do it like once a week, maybe
Censored_Name: thats not often
Spiffy: okay...me too?
Spiffy: Do you think science and logic represent the pinnacle of human understanding?
Censored_Name: no
Censored_Name: what are you gonna give me the whole test
Spiffy: no?
Spiffy: I'm just baffled?
Spiffy: Do you consider living a virtuous life to be one of your top goals? ?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: what is virtuous?
Censored_Name: morals
Spiffy: oh?
Spiffy: I thought it meant a rich lifestyle?
Censored_Name: no thats living large
Spiffy: Do you have any pagan religious beliefs?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: Can you see yourself engaging in treason against your country? ?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: Have you ever gotten someone drunk, tricked someone, or used some other underhanded means to try to initiate sexual activity for you or for a friend?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: Would you sooner go without sex than go without good-tasting food?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: really??
Spiffy: I dunno...thats a toughie?
Spiffy: food or sex??
Spiffy: that is a hard fuckin choice?
Spiffy: I take so much pleasure in both?
Spiffy: Do you make an effort to consume less resources (i.e. electicity, gasoline, plastic, glass, paper, etc.)???
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: It's okay to punch someone if they "have it coming."?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: Some people, such as Nostradamus, are able to predict future events.?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: Fasting is a way of expressing religious conviction that you have chosen or would gladly choose. ?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: what does that mean??
Censored_Name: it means you think fasting for religous reasons is a good thing
Spiffy: Are you good at telling lies? ?
Censored_Name: no
Spiffy: this is a trick question?
Censored_Name: how is it a trick question
Spiffy: because just because I'm good at it, doesn't mean I do it?
Spiffy: I can lie really good?
Spiffy: but I rarely do?
Censored_Name: I know
Spiffy: Do you consider food to be one of life's finer pleasures? ?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: okay I'm gonna take it again
Spiffy: this time I got first level?
Spiffy: but I only changed 2 answers?
Spiffy: the virtous life one?
Spiffy: and masturbate often?
Spiffy: wtf?
Spiffy: how can those two things distinguish between the first level and the eighth?!?!?!?
Censored_Name: you only changed those two?
Spiffy: yes?
Spiffy: two answers?
Censored_Name: I dunno
Spiffy: i'm really confused?
Spiffy: stupid internet test?
Spiffy: if you masturbate often, you go to the pits of hell?
Spiffy: if you don't, just limbo?
Spiffy: what do you make of all that?
Censored_Name: nothing
Spiffy: I dunno?
Spiffy: I don't believe in hell anyway?
Censored_Name: haha why not
Spiffy: because all spirits are learning?
Spiffy: no one gets banished for eternity?
Spiffy: you just are born again and try again?
Spiffy: until you reach the ultimate enlightenment?
Spiffy: do you believe in hell??
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: really?
Censored_Name: not the christian hell
Spiffy: how do you envision it?
Censored_Name: hell is on earth
Censored_Name: right now
Spiffy: I kinda thought you had the same beliefs as me?
Spiffy: well can you be more specific?
Censored_Name: hell is suffering, fear, power over others, pain, aka the 3rd dimension
Censored_Name: it is a very physical place
Spiffy: yeah?
Spiffy: well I kinda see what you are saying?
Spiffy: but I certainly don't live that way?
Spiffy: I'm not a hellish person?
Censored_Name: we live in hell now, but you dont have to live there in your thoughts
Spiffy: I disagree with you?
Spiffy: we do not live in hell?
Censored_Name: no
Censored_Name: not exactly
Spiffy: there is a lot of fucked up shit on this earth?
Censored_Name: like lucifer
Spiffy: but there is also a lot of beauty and love?
Censored_Name: this is true
Censored_Name: but this sure is not heaven
Spiffy: no...this is earth?
Censored_Name: hell is a state of mind
Spiffy: there is times of extreme pleasure (heaven) and times of negativity (hell) but overall, there is balance?
Censored_Name: yeah
Spiffy: I don't believe in people being banished to anywhere?
Spiffy: I believe we choose how we view the world around us?
Censored_Name: no ones banished there, they put themselves there
Spiffy: exactly?
Censored_Name: it IS a choice
Spiffy: yes?
Censored_Name: but hell does indeed exist
Spiffy: for some at some times?
Spiffy: but not at all times?
Censored_Name: in the lies, the deceptions, the greed, the power, the lust , the control over others of humanity
Censored_Name: I've been to hell so I know
Spiffy: but than there is the love, the birth, the light, the helping hands, the friendships
Censored_Name: I've been there too
Spiffy: some live in heaven and some in hell....but the key is to live in between? ?
Censored_Name: and right now I am living in between
Spiffy: which is key?
Censored_Name: for now
Spiffy: because without experiencing darkness, you cannot appreciate light?
Censored_Name: right
Censored_Name: but after this I'm going to live in light
Spiffy: thats great?
Spiffy: but my point is that I don't believe in the type hell that the test represents
Spiffy: its saying it will determine your destiny?
Spiffy: i.e. where you ultimately end up?
Censored_Name: how does it say that
Spiffy: ugh...hold up?
Spiffy: "Answer the questions below as honestly as you can and discover your fate. Based on your answers, your purity will be judged and you will be banished to the appropriate level of hell. Abandon all hope"?
Censored_Name: its metaphorical
Spiffy: I don't think so?
Spiffy: discover your FATE?
Censored_Name: yes, hell is full of deceptions
Censored_Name: you cant take everything at face value
Spiffy: so you believe that the times when you enter darkness into "hell" as you see it on earth you enter into the first level i.e. limbo?
Censored_Name: I've been into the deepest pits before.. but yes when I go I'm around the 1st level
Spiffy: I dunno?
Spiffy: you've told me you want to go on a killing spree?
Spiffy: I think when you really let yourself go, you go all the way?
Spiffy: I've seen hell in your eyes?
Censored_Name: I've danced with satan
Spiffy: okay?
Spiffy: well satan doesn't dance in the first level?
Censored_Name: I know
Censored_Name: he is the controller of physical realm
Spiffy: what!!!!!?
Censored_Name: YES
Spiffy: satan controls all of the physical realm?!?!?
Censored_Name: satan controls the physical realm in this solar ring
Spiffy: what?
Censored_Name: he controls the movement of planets, the physics of nature, the pleasures of the flesh
Spiffy: I disagree 100%?
Spiffy: I don't even believe in satan?
Censored_Name: how so
Censored_Name: thats good for him
Censored_Name: you don't believe in him, and I'm telling you I've met him, hm
Spiffy: and even if I looked at satan as a pure enegry, I don't see "him" controlling all physical things?
Spiffy: Do you really believe satan controls all physical things??
Censored_Name: in this solar ring, LUCIFER, the fallen angel of lightis in control of physical reality, YES
Spiffy: so when you enjoy a really good meal, thats controlled by satan?
Spiffy: when you hug me, thats satan?
Censored_Name: no, love is not satan
Censored_Name: gravity, is controlled by satan
Spiffy: but a hug is a physical expression of love?
Censored_Name: not all things physical, only physics
Censored_Name: the way they work
Spiffy: you said the physical realm?
Censored_Name: yes
Spiffy: now you are saying physics?
Spiffy: which one??
Censored_Name: physics
Censored_Name: non spirit
Censored_Name: anti spirit
Spiffy: so trees growing?
Spiffy: thats satan??
Censored_Name: gravity, the movement of planets, time
Spiffy: air moving...satan??
Spiffy: clouds moving across the moon?
Spiffy: the sun shining???
Spiffy: the birds singing??
Censored_Name: god creates it, satan ushers it
Censored_Name: all things have a purpose
Spiffy: I'm sorry but I just don't agree with you at all?
Censored_Name: whatever
Spiffy: I think that "god" or as I see it the spirit of creation ushers things?
Spiffy: and chooses for both good and evil so that there is balance and harmony?
Censored_Name: then who creates it
Spiffy: "god"?
Spiffy: the vast collection of enlightened spirits?
Censored_Name: satan exists
Spiffy: thats fine for you to believe that?
Spiffy: but I disagree?
Censored_Name: how can you disagree if you have never seen him
Spiffy: him??
Censored_Name: yes him
Spiffy: now you are making it a being?
Censored_Name: actually its more like a freak
Censored_Name: it seduced me as a woman but it was actually a man
Spiffy: oh my god?
Spiffy: I can't talk to you about his anymore?
Spiffy: its too much?
Censored_Name: ok then
Spiffy: I disagree and thats fine for me to do?
Censored_Name: yes, but it doesnt mean you're right
Spiffy: it doesn't mean you're right either
Spiffy: I'm baffled though, because up till now, I thought we agreed on spiritual beliefs
Spiffy: but now you are telling me satan seduced you?
Censored_Name: yes a while ago
Spiffy: and that sounds like words straight from the mouth of a christian?
Censored_Name: whatever
Spiffy: whatever??
Censored_Name: yeah
Spiffy: address it?
Spiffy: don't pass it off with whatever?
Censored_Name: you address it, its your problem
Censored_Name: you dont think one can go from the deepest pits of hell to the heights of enlightenment?
Spiffy: you realize that if you are debating something with me, becoming angry and dismissing things I say is not the way to convince me you are right?
Censored_Name: your dismissing what I say, so I do the same
Spiffy: I am not dismissing what you say?
Spiffy: I'm saying I disagree?
Spiffy: saying "whatever" is dismissing what I say?
Censored_Name: I say I've met Satan, you say you disagree and I 'sound like a christian'
Spiffy: it was the "satan seduced me" thing that sounded christian?
Spiffy: and that is opinion?
Spiffy: not dissmissal?
Censored_Name: well he did
Censored_Name: I dont care what it sounds like
Spiffy: okay?
Censored_Name: I've met satan on many occassions throughout my life, and I am not going to deny it
Spiffy: thats fine?
Censored_Name: as a child he was in my dreams
Censored_Name: before I even knew about any of that shit
Spiffy: you don't think it had anything to do with the strong christian backround you have?
Censored_Name: not at all
Spiffy: you realize that satan is a christian thing?
Censored_Name: Satan was around before christianity
Spiffy: if you said "evil spirit" or "evil energy" I'd be more inclined to agree?
Censored_Name: they did not invent him
Spiffy: no...satan is a christian name?
Censored_Name: yes, Lucifer is his name
Censored_Name: Mephisto
Censored_Name: Beelzebub
Censored_Name: satan is more a hermaphrodite than anything.. but a very masculine presence
Spiffy: satan, as a being, like god, refered to as "he" is a very Christian thing?
Censored_Name: dont tell me whats christian, I am speaking from experience, not what I was told or read in a book
Spiffy: webster definition of Satan: the adversary of God and lord of evil in Christianity?
Censored_Name: so
Spiffy: so nothing?
Spiffy: just making a point?
Censored_Name: you say yourself you've seen hell in my eyes, are you going to deny it now
Spiffy: no?
Spiffy: I said that when we were talking about hell as a state of mind?
Spiffy: I've seen you revert to darkness?
Censored_Name: look up lucifer
Censored_Name: doesnt say shit about christianity
Spiffy: but it does say name for "the devil"?
Censored_Name: what is your point
Censored_Name: that he doesnt exist, and I am making all this up
Censored_Name: next your going to tell me aliens dont exist
Censored_Name: because you havent seen them
Spiffy: the devil is defined as the personal supreme spirit of evil often represented in Christian belief as the tempter of mankind, the leader of all apostate angels and the ruler of hell
Spiffy: no...I believe in aliens?
Spiffy: I don't believe in satan?
Spiffy: and not because I haven't seen him?
Spiffy: I believe in lots of things I haven't seen?
Censored_Name: than why not
Spiffy: because I believe that good and evil exist in all things as part of this earth
Censored_Name: ok
Spiffy: and I think that evil is presented on your path not by satan but by god as a learning experience?
Censored_Name: but you realize lucifer's main objective is to decieve
Censored_Name: and cause fear
Censored_Name: right?
Censored_Name: god made lucifer, and gave him purpose
Spiffy: explain to me where you see "Lucifer" fitting into the belief that all beings are on a path to enlightenment to become one great spirit?
Censored_Name: I was there, so don't tell me otherwise
Spiffy: oh my god?
Censored_Name: Lucifer is part of the Divine plan
Spiffy: is that friendly debate??
Spiffy: is that open minded to the beliefs of others??
Spiffy: "I was there so don't tell me otherwise"?
Censored_Name: no its logical debate
Censored_Name : I say again, Lucifer was created by God, and rebelled against him, and was put in charge of the physical realm, because god knew his purpose
Spiffy :? lets just agree to disagree??
Spiffy :? okay???
Censored_Name :? you say good and evil exist in all things, I agree, and I say that Lucifer exists as a part of the divine plan
Censored_Name :? ok fine ?
Spiffy :? I love you!??
Censored_Name :? I love you
Censored_Name :? but now I have to go back to hell

Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."

Edited by Spiffy (05/04/03 02:50 PM)

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Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1519238 - 05/04/03 10:57 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

The god I believe in (sorta...) would never send me to hell. I see the act of sending someone to a place of eternal torment and agony an act of vengeance. Why would god need vengeance? How big of an ego does god have? I thought god was supposed to be all loving and mercyful. Hell I couldnt even let that happen, I dont see how god could. I think I lead a good spiritual and moral life, though not religious. If god finds the need to send me to hell or others just because we dont believe in him, then fuck him, Send me to hell baby!

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 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1519264 - 05/04/03 11:11 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

You shouldn't take it so seriously. I got to level 8 too BTW.

One interpretation of the heaven/hell thing which I like goes like this: "In heaven you rise to the level of your fullness of love, in hell you sink to the level of your lack of love". 

It makes sense to me, and if it's true, spiffy doesn't have anything to worry about  :smirk:


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Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1519325 - 05/04/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"Spiffy: fuck that 
Censored_Name: we've all been there
Spiffy: umm 
Spiffy: I'm a good person 
Spiffy: I care about others 
Spiffy: I don't cheat or lie or beat up on people 
Spiffy: I try to give to those less fortunate 
Spiffy: I stand by my loved ones 
Spiffy: this equals the pits of hell?  "

You are both wonderful !  You have courage adressing this topic !  :tongue:

So I will ease your pain a little...  because you deserve it !

You must allow me to lift the wool away from your eyes a bit...  I'll need to "touch" you to do that...  but I will not be doing it in "that way".

One thing that only a few know about Hell, is that it lies.

When the "Hooks and Barbs" impale themselves into you, it is near impossible to escape on your own.

This test, because it is of Hell... incorporated that part of Hell's attributes for YOU...  (this was an example made for YOU).

Allow me to say this:  You have been pulled out !  Level 8 is the depth from which you have been pulled out of.  Hell was "pissed"... so it wanted to take yet another stab at pulling you back...  But it wasn't allowed to.  You are not going back there. You are safe now.    :grin:

Keep playing by the rules that you are.  You play a good game !



Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1519340 - 05/04/03 12:02 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting thread and conversation Spiffy.

I think all of us can see why telling someone they are going to hell isn't allowed in this forum.


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Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1519342 - 05/04/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

So... there was this situation once. Some said nothing could be done; others had suggestions. Most
gave up! Except a few! You see, there was once a prince, youngest of 3, in a kingdom known for
its wonderful King. This prince made a mistake; He dis obeyed the King. He was sooo scared,
cause the King was THE MOST POWERFUL KING of all! Like a child, the prince ran away! He
fled as far as he could; without paying attention! Further and further !

He looked around. Where the hell was He? What the? He couldn't believe it!!! He was lost! Damn
lost! NOW He was REAL scared!!! This new place, It seemed alive; it interacted with him; it
made him feel better... and just when he thought everything was alright... It revealed everything...
What a forsaken place! It LIED!! It got His hopes up... and then shattered them!

How stupid of Him to run like that! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! ...
He lost faith... the LIES never stopped.... His hopes, always brought up, and sent crashing into
the darkest depths of despair. He stopped believing. It was the only way to save His sanity. He
gave up trying! What's the point; who cares? Why bother? Things are never gonna... ?

What was that? ...

There it was again!...

No way this was happening!
Scurries and sounds could be heard all around!

*&#$% !!!!!
Whatever it was, IT was getting closer!

Two pairs of eyes then opened from within the darkness!


Wait a sec...

Chief? Little Buddy?

Thank goodness! I'm SO GLAD to see you !!!!

Yeah, I know! I guess we're lost. But at least I have you both here at my side! Couldn't have
asked for stronger Guardians!

We'll have to wait it out. CAREFULL! This place can't be trusted! Don't get hurt! Be on guard,
ALWAYS ! Anything could happen!

We'll make it though - I promise!


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1520047 - 05/04/03 06:03 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

where did that story come from?


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Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Spiffy]
    #1520076 - 05/04/03 06:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

so and so and so and so i had dreams about a place, a realm i was taken too deep. and what there i saw, i saw people laying in a low pit cutting themselves to pieces. with knives. but that they could not see, for the darkness was so great it blinded them, and so their hearts lashed out with sharp scepters, cutting the life from one another. Thats what i SAW! in my DREAM! and when i woke up thats what i felt that people do to eachother... here and now. another time... a woman with a big ass golum behind her. An angel came down and ripped her soul out, cause she was supposedly "evil" or at least it was the time for the karmic cycle to put her in her place. and so the earth opened up from below and a hand shoved her into the pits of hell. but the ground opened back up and her soul stuck out her arms and then the grown closed back up.


i dont really think this topic can be expressed too "rationaly" so i will post a poem kind of thing i wrote that describes how i see hell on earth, and personal choice... and a mixture of other personal experiences. one including dreams in the above

im on the low. i see a flow, like those rivers singing you softly to sleep. but to sleep, where the boogie man lives. where he shows you beneath the veil, into hell where men stab and slice eachother. as if it were a game, as if it were a game, they just let it play, let it play, let it play. such a terrible price some innocent pay for these selfish games. ah, if i could only go back, but nay it seems as though it would be in vain.


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Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1520093 - 05/04/03 06:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

I think the interpretation might be that hell is on Earth, and we are here because of previous life shit, and the way out of hell is with God, otherwise you shall live once again in hell (or Earth.) So are you saying God's path will lead to not being ressurected? hmmm... makes sense I guess

AH HA....

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Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1520186 - 05/04/03 07:02 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

well in this case i try to be with "god" if god = all love and all knowing. our ressurection.... well we have to take that respobsiblity on ourself. we cant wait for god. im sure thats even what the bible says. im not a christian, but who could deny that? you cant wait for others to make up for your problems, i mean sure you can. but whos to say you will be saved from anything? you will live and die without have ever having to take respobsibilty for your actions.

i think instead of saying that following the path of god wont lead to ressurection. should be restated as, taking the path that waits for god to save you wont lead to ressurection. if you cant take responsibility for your actions how will you ever see the outcome of anything you do?

hell is on earth, and i dont know what the hell to do. i just know that i want to try and do as much as i can for this planet before i die, i want to re design the way people live. that to me, might be my resurecction and my entrance into heaven. all the joy i could imagine.

the hell i face is the hell i encounter on a day to day basis. the people i see, how i am crossed without the slightest regard. how i forget and sometimes lose my since of forgiving others. but also that sense that i should uphold my own "law" and not let other people put me in those positions. when your relationship is in the worst and you feel completely abandoned.

but i cant dwell on that. i mean that is hell. take that to the global scale. yeah thats hell and i think that fits with how anyone wants to look at it. when i was on DXM last time, i fucking saw satan. he was in people. he was in that place where spiffy looked and saw hell. i saw it in spiffys conversation with Censored_Name. i see it everywhere. if its a constant state of trying to reach a state of ideoalized perfection or a constant disregard for the natural laws of nature or the difference of all perception of all individuals. it mostly comes down to actions and intentions, thats hell.

but i also think if you take the principles of what the bible says about god and salvation and having faith, and taking up your own will but having that will to fit the divine law. such as respecting and loving other humans and having forgiveness, than thats what that is. some things i think are meant to be taken out of context while others stand alone to show you their complete down to earth truth.

I love this planet or this idea of the planet and a global working community. i dont know if i will ever see it here or in this life, but i will do everything i can to bring that heaven to earth. thats my dream. maybe my ressurection. i dont know.


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Re: The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1520902 - 05/04/03 11:39 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

DrubuShrume: "I think the interpretation might be that hell is on Earth..."

Since the concept of Hell on Earth has been brought up, I would like to make an illustration. 

To keep it simple, allow me to use symbolism.

Let us compare being here on earth as if we were in a nice and warm room within a house; and at the same time, let's compare Hell to the outside - During winter...  record low... 40 below !!  Brrrrrrrrr...

Everytime the door that separates the two gets opened, a draft comes in. ( For those who live in areas that see the winter months, you know exactly what I'm talking about! ) ... And that coldness seems to linger for a while. 

There's not really much that you can do to keep the cold out. You can opt to leave the door closed all the time; but sometimes, you may have friends who'd like to get out of the cold and join you in the warmth.

Such an analogy may account for some "snippets of Hell" here on Earth.

Even Nature itself, who is - correct me if I'm wrong - perfect, seems to be affected.  It too suffers the effects of "snippets"... Just ask the fly who's been caught by the beautiful Venus Fly Trap what Hell is all about.

Can we agree that it's somewhat relative though?  I mean...  It all depends upon "what side of the bathroom door your on".  :grin:

But what about some of the bigger things that happen?  The ones that make you ask those question... You know what I'm talking about... The ones that go: If "God" trully loved us, then why do all of these Horrors have to happen? How is that part of the PLAN???

I would like to present a possibility and then post something I wrote a long time ago.

I believe, that it has something to do with the concept of EQUILIBRIUM...  It sort of satisfies primal instinct - well it does in my mind anyways.  I guess it also includes another concept: Energy is never created, nor destroyed, only converted.

These two concepts are similar to the ideology behind KARMA and REINCARNATION; where the former is like equillibrium, in a way, and the latter follows the scientific principle of energy.

Allow me to further illustrate my point with a poem.

POOR HITLER      :shocked:

Hitler?s on his way to Heaven now.

How long has it been?

It seemed like an eternity.

It?s true?

He saw the countless horrors, as they unfolded;
With his very own eyes!


How many died?
How stained with blood were his hands?


He was so damn scared?
He couldn?t say anything to stop it.

The insanity;
Cause it was horrific to witness!!

The fear present was surreal !!!

?And to think?

So many years as a pre-cursor,

Of what is waiting to come!!!

-Didn?t you know?-

?It was he who executed first.

And then,

That day?

At that very spot....

It was he who killed Christ.

[ Here I come,  Judge Mental,  Present ]

?And Justice for all!!!


[ASIDE]-  The concept of equilibrium is a very real thing in this realm. You have to consider...  they didn't just kill someone...  They made Him BLEED! They made Him HURT!  They took it TOO FAR!

... And He was not ordinary...  He was SPECIAL!

Consider this as well... as something of a possible real magnitude...
If the possibility of "snippets" exists, and they are a part of a bigger concept...

My friends... Then,  Hell is JUST a word !  The REALITY is much, MUCH!!!!  worse!



Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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