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Offlinegribochek
enthusiast
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 286
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Objective reality challange
    #536757 - 01/31/02 11:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So many challanges out there, telepathy challenge, clarvoyance challange, blah, blah, blah.

I propose my own. Objective reality challange.

Prove to me that objective reality exists beyond that which is being experienced by me through various senses. Devise an event, a phenomenon, a demonstration or a scientific experiment that will prove to me that I am not dreaming it up.

Swamiji-san, how about this one, huh? :smile:

-- Grib. 


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: gribochek]
    #536791 - 01/31/02 12:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Here we have an unoriginal and quite standard "dodge" used by believers. When unable to substantiate any claims that you make, propose a test for the person making no claims, then try to get them to prove it.

*Sigh* Do my hot water challenge with 100 believers and every single one will get scalded, showing there is some form of objective reality.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemm.
addict
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/16/99
Posts: 534
Loc: England
Last seen: 23 days, 9 hours
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: Swami]
    #536803 - 01/31/02 12:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That would not show that there is some form of objective reality, only that the scalded people thought that there was. Surely you know from physics that 'reality' must have an observer in order to be defined, so cannot therefore be objective.


--------------------
MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986


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Anonymous

Re: Objective reality challange [Re: mm.]
    #536808 - 01/31/02 12:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

BAM!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: mm.]
    #536829 - 01/31/02 01:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

As I have stated countless times, nothing but word games and hot air here. No substance whatsoever. Out of the hundreds of claims made, no one can demonstrate to me one single paranormal event.

I will make everyone here happy and leave you to your fantasy world.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Objective reality challange [Re: Swami]
    #536840 - 01/31/02 01:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You will get your proof when you are ready.
Soon young grasshopper, patience.


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: gribochek]
    #536988 - 01/31/02 04:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You have to prove that to yourself. Plus, maybe things cannot be absolutely proven.


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Offlinegribochek
enthusiast
Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 286
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: Swami]
    #537176 - 01/31/02 09:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

When unable to substantiate any claims that you make, propose a test for the person making no claims, then try to get them to prove it.

Excuse me, swamster, but you are being quite unfair here. First, personally, myself, I don't remember making any claims which I expected you to believe or base any argument upon. Nothing is changed in my world whether telepathy exists or not. I never claimed it or any other thing like it "exists". All I relayed were some of my experience, which were not intended to prove any point (at least to you).

Secondly, my request which has started this thread is valid and justified, because every point, claim or requirement made by science, or rather the thinking behind science, or even rather the scientific method itself is based on a premise that objective reality exists. Indeed, every challange you have proposed in response to "claims" is intended at "objectively" determining whether or not some phenomenon exists in "objective reality", or "consentual reality" as you call it. Indeed, had it not been for the postulated existance of objective reality the point of any "objective" verification would be nill. So do you or do you not claim that some kind of "objective reality" exists?

The original post which started this thread is not intended at trying to make you do anything. It is intended at showing your position back to you. Indeed, to the above challenge, as we, as intelligent people, know no meaningful response can be given. No meaningful proof can exist, for you can only define "objective reality" in terms of "objective reality". Which is the same as the case with all other challenges you throw at us, which are none but an effective way of demonstrating to yourself your superiority a la "see, you are a bunch of stupid idiots as I stand to show". However, not everything can be proven objectively, as is the case with "objectivity" itself. Which is hillarios, if you think of it...

Cheers.

-- Grib.



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OfflineSwank
member
Registered: 12/29/00
Posts: 83
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Objective reality challange [Re: gribochek]
    #537277 - 01/31/02 11:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you had a glass of very cold water and had people stick their hand in it every morning for a year, and then one day you put very hot water in it, you better bet that they're going to get burned, regardless of whether they think so or not.

Objective reality... can it be proven that science does not work, or rather that its methods are not without merit? No matter what, we cannot break free of gravity (we can manipulate it, yes, but we can never break free of it), nor can we breathe water, or any such fantastic thing. Certain things will invariable cause certain things to happen.

Or we can look to Descartes... our ideas, no matter how fantastical, must be gotten from somewhere. A mermaid is just a woman and a fish. All things we come up with in our mind are based on something that we know and/or composites of mulitple things we know and have gathered from outside resources (ie that which we perceive). Read the meditations for more on that.



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