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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3968394 - 03/25/05 01:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
When you adopt an understanding that there is only subject reality and flux, you are now dealing with ONE. ONE has nothing extraneous from itself to fear loosing, nothing to fear except for ones own self really and nothing to struggle against, put up resistance too or be in conflict with.




That sounds like something that needs to be strived for. :thumbup: :wink:

There is such a thing as having a center similar to which you describe, as well as a well-programmed mind that operates from preferences, not emotion-bound demands and addictions, that allows for a peaceful, cosmic life full of experience. Of course, the more one ascends into Cosmic Consciousness (Christ Consciousness), the more one reaches a state in line with what you describe. Any objections to such a state stem entirely from one's illusory sense of identity, obviously, as the very nature of this perspective and this center of consciousness does not include an illusory self.

When one is conscious of every aspect of their experience and does not limit or fragment that experience at all, it seems that they are as close to God as one can be. :grin: I'm not saying that this state is one that I would be centered in all the time, but one with an illusory sense of self (which I will step up and proclaim that everyone here has one at least some of the time :tongue:) has no judgement to pass on an egoless state or its merit. :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3969005 - 03/25/05 03:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

THANK YOU Fireworks for showing me understanding. ( I know you understand this stuff gomp  :wink:) And THANK YOU for putting this understanding into words that can help more people understand it.

I'm working on a there fields theory that i Will post that will blow this idea of one set true reality to measure truth or false pretense by out of the water. It's never one or the other, its always BOTH intertwined. You can't have one with out the other which is why really there is is only one dynamic at play withing 3 fields I will present in a new post.  I'll give you a heads up on them,

The field of no time, the field of simultaneous time and the field of linear time. You'll like it FW! I may have it up later today.

My head is a lot clearer today and I can elucidate and EXPAND on this understanding much more coherently now. It is we who influence what objective reality is and as our self influence changes so does it, hense the flux and why it can not be set to use a a measure for comparison. Objective reality is created by us making it a part of the subject, us.

Reality is your best friend, when you realize that you are a co- creator of it. If you think it is something separate from you that happens to you then it will become your worst enemy. When you realize yourself as the creator of it, THEN, the understanding becomes one of realizing that it is truly WE who are our own best friends.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who has a problem with understanding this is in denial of being responsible for their own creations and living in victim consciousness. All I wanted to do was to help people realize that and become empowered to move out of it. I have more on how to do this for those that would like to get out of victim mode.

When you experience yourself to be a victim of or separate from reality then that is when you are being your own worst enemy. When you experience yourself to be in mutual collaboration and benefit with your reality is when you are being your own best friend.

The objective reality is nothing more then a self reflecting mirror. It is reflecting the self at all times, not projecting itself as a separate entity upon you. Reality is of your creation. The only thing that can make it appear to be objective from yourself is when you object to your own self creations. That is how it is WE who create objective reality, by self objections.  This makes objective reality and illusion, not the truth. Read on......

Objective reality is the illusion created when you deny responsibility for creating it yourself and want to set it a part from you and make some unknown responsible for subjecting you to it. It's created when we can not see our very own same Essenes in it. A rock is an object separate from us, yet, by observation of it only does it become realized, made real to us. We make objective reality real.

Objective reality is not the truth, but the illusion my friends. Vern Howard has it in reverse and will set you going backwards in time. My three field theory will explain what I mean by that.

The only reason why anyone would put resistance up to this understanding is because, they aren't ready to accept themselves as a Co-Creator of reality. And I humbly understand that. It's an enormously responsible position to move your self awareness into.

When Fireworks talked about us being in a state of self illusion which some humans are in all of the time and others slip into some of the time, including me for sure. Its when we don't want to accept the responsibility of being a Co-Creator of our realities that we slip into it. This is when we are living in false pretense of who we truly are.

When you think there is an objective reality, a part from you imposing its will on you without you having a choice, or that you need to be submissive too it, or overly aggressive with it, is when you are in a state of false pretense. You have given up the power of your creative control over to the object.

A best friend doesn't betray or deny it's best friend of anything. When you start doing this to yourself is when you start giving your power over to the object and in that state of self denial, self rejection, self-objection "get it" you have made the object a separate part from the self, more powerful and greater then yourself. This is how it can appear to over come you into victimization of it.

Really, you are a victim at your own hands and just are in denial of it. You have the power within to unvictimise yourself by becoming your own best friend again and taking the power of your creative control back.

When you accept yourself as Co-Creator then you know what you are doing to create your experiential realities and you know how to change them to suit your preferences. When you realize your power to do that is when you are coming closer to being in your truth as a co-creator with the Divine. :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3969229 - 03/25/05 04:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I'm getting the hint that you and I are using the word[s]: reality/objective reality differently.

What does reality mean to you? How are you using the word?


From dictionary.com:
1.) The quality or state of being actual or true.
2.) One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: ?the weight of history and political realities? (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.).
3.) The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
4.) That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality.

As I use the word in congruity with the above definition[s], I refer to Facts, Actuality.

Facts, are your best friend. This is the entire epitome of the original message. People often live a great portion of their lives in avoidance of facts; facts which could be used to their advantage, as facts are not positive nor negative. They are neutral, hence can be used for destruction or construction. They are the tools that we all need in reality.
Honesty, in a word.

So when somebody claims objective reality is an illusion, that implies that they believe facts are illusions as well. This may not be the case with you, as you might be referring to something else.. so if there is just a semantic confusion, then please do show where the confusion lies.

If you're simply trying to say that we are in charge of making our own choices, then of course we are in agreement.
We all LIVE in our own subjective realities which are all rooted in one objective reality. They are both two sides to the same coin - they ARE One. You pointed this out already and I already understand this.


"How do we find facts?

Dare to live without opinions. At first, you feel jittery
like an invalid abandoning his cane, but, later, quietness
sets in. The test of whether you really see a fact about
life is this: When clearly seen, you feel a great sense
of relief."

-Vernon Howard

[See?]


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3969320 - 03/25/05 05:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That's definitely where our views are differing here.

You see facts to be set and I see them in a state of flux not set. This is why I disagree with there being a set reality of truth to measure our own truth against.

The fact is I am alive and breathing. The fact also is, I am dead and dust. Another fact is that, I am not even born yet. All facts are true and quite different, and they depend on what point of time you are perceiving the "true" set of "facts" in.

There was a point in time, where the fact was that the sun was a God and it circled around the earth. There is a point in time where the fact is, it is a ball of gas that the earth circles around. What will the fact of the suns truth be 5000 years from now? What will the fact of the suns truth be 10 trillion years from now?

Is the truth and are facts really so set and abosolute?

It's all relative to the subject.

To me, facts and truths ARE in a state of flux and not set in stone. Time moves slow in our limited 5 sensory perception. Its difficult to observe or witness that flux and it just appears as if a fact or truth is set as an absolute you can count on being true forever.

Yes, this is where we are differing in how we view reality. You see one that has set truths and I just see a state of everything in flux and motion. Flux, change and motion is my only set truth of reality here.

edit typos


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (03/25/05 05:59 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3969473 - 03/25/05 06:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

My apologizes  for the horrible typos and grammar that last reply had. I should not have typed it in a hurry. My daughter was waiting on me to go for a bike ride. I should've done it when I got back. I cleaned it up now and it reads easier.  :blush:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3969794 - 03/25/05 07:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
When you adopt an understanding that there is only subject reality and flux, you are now dealing with ONE. ONE has nothing extraneous from itself to fear loosing, nothing to fear except for ones own self really and nothing to struggle against, put up resistance too or be in conflict with.






There is such a thing as having a center similar to which you describe, as well as a well-programmed mind that operates from preferences, not emotion-bound demands and addictions, that allows for a peaceful, cosmic life full of experience. Of course, the more one ascends into Cosmic Consciousness (Christ Consciousness), the more one reaches a state in line with what you describe. :laugh:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Thanks to all of you for this very amazing discussion. Being new here at the Shroomery, it warms my unconditionally loving heart to hear all of this. I feel very warm and at home here just hearing your words. Blessings and many thanks. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3969963 - 03/25/05 08:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have to say that I am feeling not to good about something here and it's not that i regret sharing my view on this, but I do wish I could start over from the beginning with a different approach. I have a lot of respect for you Skorp and really enjoy you here very much.

I do think semantics have been  a bigger issue here then anything.

I know you know this stuff I talked about Skorp. I know its child's play for you. This was never about you. This was about how Vern presented the subjective and objective realities as being separate from each other. That pulled my trigger because any teaching that teaches in separation and duality is bound to lead to suffering to me.

Had he unified the subject and object and demonstrated the relationship between the two, then, it would've been cool easy breezing reading to me.

Because I know you know this oneness stuff, you can read a guy like Vern and take his plurals and make them into a singular understanding that serves you. Most people on the planet do not know how to do that yet. Seeing what can come from dualistic teachings, my intent was to unify it, as poorly as I did. I worked as much as I could to do it better with some help from all of you adding to the clarifications made here.

Thanks Skorp!  Much love, appreciation and respect :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3972853 - 03/26/05 04:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You see facts to be set and I see them in a state of flux not set? Yes, this is where we are differing in how we view reality. You see one that has set truths and I just see a state of everything in flux and motion. Flux, change and motion is my only set truth of reality here.
And yet again, it seems we have another misunderstanding. Where do you get the idea that I hold some notion that reality is something fixed, rather than an on-going process?
I?m well aware of the ultimate fleeting nature of all things.
It sounds like you?re trying to speak from the absolute standpoint.
I understand all of that, but I?m speaking from the relative standpoint.

For example, it matters whether you succeed or fail in the eyes of the world. It matters whether you are healthy or not healthy, whether you are educated or not educated. It matters whether your are rich or poor ? it certainly makes a difference in your life. All of these things matter, relatively speaking, but they don?t matter absolutely.

The point that is becoming increasingly distanced from this discussion is that we must find the facts in the matter-at-hand, not the facts of what has happened four thousand years ago, or of what is taking place sixteen light-years from us in outer-space.

Real life example:
In high school, Susan is picked on, teased and harassed at her school by other students due to her inability to speak properly. Little did most know, she was much, much smarter than most of them, with a very, very high IQ.
The taunting student?s perceptual-filters have interpreted the data of her situation into a negative caliber, then conjured up an image of her pertinent to negativity and categorized that image into a negative concept. They reduce the aliveness of a human being to a mere concept, exclaiming ?I am better than Susan, and she must know this, so that I will receive the expected feedback from her, which will support my illusory image of superiority.. and so on.?

Susan learns that, objectively neither she nor the other students possess an intrinsically superior nature than the other. They are all objectively equal, although each of them may possess different capabilities and abilities, that the others do not. Furthermore, she discovers the fact that the students are behaving in such ways due to their own psychological conditioning, environmental influences, memetics and genetics, and so on ad infinitum...

By simply focusing on the facts of the matter-in-hand, she was able to look at things from a higher perspective, and evolve out of her older mental conditioning that would still be stuck in the old resistance patterns which perpetuated her victim-identity complex. Not taking some escapist route ? hindering personal growth and development ? into ?esoterica? where her mind found comfort in matters that offer a thin veneer of comfort, but at the price of neurotic support and constant defense against the assault of reality ? whether consciously or un/subconsciously.

And Susan finally had the confidence to do something about her speech impediment, and went to the doctors, and had surgery.

There was a point in time, where the fact was that the sun was a God and it circled around the earth.

Sorry, but that was not a fact. That was a belief. There was never any actual proof of such, therefore it was never an actual fact. At best, it could have been a sketchy theory, but certainly not a fact. It is a fact that the sun was perceived to be a God. In reality, the actual fact-of-the-matter never changed; only the interpretations and perceptions.

Most facts as we know today, are basically going to be factoids for the remainder of all existence, generally speaking.
At the moment, I can?t think of any actual, objective facts that have been proven? but then disproved later on.
Theories, yes. Actual facts? Not sure about that yet. Diploid, Phluck or Trendal may be better judges here if we are to remain within the realms of the Shroomery.
Either way, I worded the first sentence carefully:? ?Most facts??

The fact is I am alive and breathing. The fact also is, I am dead and dust. Another fact is that, I am not even born yet. All facts are true and quite different, and they depend on what point of time you are perceiving the "true" set of "facts" in.

As ole Markos says?
Be Here Now.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Edited by SkorpivoMusterion (03/26/05 05:07 PM)


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Invisiblepupil
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3973084 - 03/26/05 06:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i apologize to the previous posters-- i haven't read your posts. i just wanted to respond to the original post, because it reminded me of a little black book i saw at the bookstore yesterday. i started reading the intro; i found the first chapter online:


Chapter 1

"One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted. Most people are rather confident of their ability to recognize bullshit and to avoid being taken in by it. So the phenomenon has not aroused much deliberate concern, nor attracted much sustained inquiry.

In consequence, we have no clear understanding of what bullshit is, why there is so much of it, or what functions it serves. And we lack a conscientiously developed appreciation of what it means to us. In other words, we have no theory. I propose to begin the development of a theoretical understanding of bullshit, mainly by providing some tentative and exploratory philosophical analysis. I shall not consider the rhetorical uses and misuses of bullshit. My aim is simply to give a rough account of what bullshit is and how it differs from what it is not--or (putting it somewhat differently) to articulate, more or less sketchily, the structure of its concept. [continued]"

the book is titled,

"on bullshit"

it was in the philosophy section.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3973304 - 03/26/05 07:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I read the story and have no idea how because the other kids called Susan dumb for a speech impediment that she learned they were all equal. That wasn't demonstrated. If she did get real with the facts about herself, that she had a much higher IQ, then Susan would have realized that inequity and felt intellectually superior to them.

What I have been highlighting here is that when we start comparing ourselves to whats out there, it will lead to insecurities of inequity either way. People who realize that they are better at something or have more of something then others can feel can become just as awkward or isolated feeling and insecure in fear a loos of what makes them more to compensate for what makes them less as the less thens feel.

The fact is, human beings are riddled with actually inequities compared to each other and we can not escape that fact here.

I think Verns message only reinforces the realizations of our duality separations and only internal and external struggles ensue from them.

Now if Susan kept her sense of truth subjective that changes everything for the better. If Susan took empowerment over deciding for herself what Susan is, Susan can decide if she is smart or dumb for herself. Susan can decide if her speech impediment is a problem for her to work on or not. Susan can decide if she has something to offer other people that gives her value besides her voice. Susan is free to be as a subjective being in a subjective world.

Susan is trapped left and right in a subject object world. Note the trapped in the left and trapped in the right under tone....duality and struggles. She's less good for having a speech impediment and she is more good for having a higher IQ.

Between Susan and Susan she is just a girl with a speech impediment and intelligent, her truth. Between Susan and the objective reality she is worse here, better there- crap to deal with trying to balance the scales.

Skorp, what if Susan had a less then average IQ and that was a provable fact from tests she took in comparison to others? Then, Susan must get real with herself and accept her truth as being the dumb kid.  I guess that justifies the name calling then and Susan's self esteem can tank and Vern will be pleased with himself.

So Susan may talk funny and not be very smart "compared" to other people, objects but what if Susan decides not to care what the others think and to love and think well of herself just as she is? There's a novel idea, self acceptance?

What if she decides to dream big for herself and see herself up on stage as a prima ballerina and through her dreams and fantasies of what is not true or fact in the "linear" now, she works to become a prima ballerina. In her adult life she becomes one for real, inspired by the dreams that carried her away from the name calling, and  experiences a wonderful sense of self accomplishment and self fulfillment through her dance?

This being in the now stuff, I realize some take it to mean being present in the fractal linear  moment.

First, in between and last time I checked, being in the NOW meant being in the Now of eternal time, the Now of all existence, the Now of the absolute, where all things can and are possible. The only absolute truth I know of is eternal equity with all in spirit and change beyond that. With that said, using set objective facts to measure yourself truth against is not even possible to do. It will lead to suffering because we are not our bodies, we are not our things, we are not our titles. We are spirits having a human experience.

The facts of the human experience often times are not pretty. What about the question I asked about the boy who's home was bombed, family killed and existed in the middle of a war with nothing but himself. Should he accept the facts and get real with himself? Then what?

Or maybe, to deal with the facts he can dream of a place where there is no war and people around him to love, care for and support him again. In this "escapism dreaming" he can become inspired, become in his spirit self, and then be emotionally moved "motivated" to find a way out of that area and into another country where he can then begin to create and realize his dream.

You can live in a subject -fact object reality and measure yourself truth to it all you want. You can teach others the virtues of duality also, all you want to. I can live in a subjective only reality all I want and share the virtues and freedoms I have found in it with others at the same time.

Some how, we will co-existence in peace and harmony because that's the subjective truth I live in, the simultaneous time, "here and Now" of eternal existence where all things can be and are at the same time.

So, what are you cooking for dinner Skorp because the fact of the fractal moment of the linear now is that I am hungry. This is my truth and I shall present no false hoods or pretenses about it. Vern would be proud of me for getting real with my appetite so I do not suffer needlessly from hunger and starve to death.

Is that was he was talking about? Did he mean that I shouldn't put on a false pretense of not being hungry when I am because I have this false truth about myself that I do not need food to keep from hunger and starvation?

If any factoid is of important relevance to my existence and survival here, I think it will make itself pretty evident and be in command of my compliance with it if I care to sustain my lively hood in a physical body. Do I need someone telling me that I have to go out and look for the facts about needing food to survive to make sure I am not lying to myself OR can it be self evident?

After all, all of my needs are between me and myself and in this case my stomach sending me a message to go eat and was it actually, dare I say, all realized within my subjective reality?

Pretty cool how when there is only ONE and you realize yourself as the one, the system becomes self contained and the objects to it are all illusions.  Imagine that.  :wink::inlove:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3974504 - 03/27/05 12:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I read the story and have no idea how because the other kids called Susan dumb for a speech impediment that she learned they were all equal. That wasn't demonstrated. If she did get real with the facts about herself, that she had a much higher IQ, then Susan would have realized that inequity and felt intellectually superior to them.

She assessed the situation, and instead of choosing a route full of avoidant-beliefs, she chose the route of letting all the facts of the matter-in-hand have their way. She gained self-knowledge, which helped her free herself from her self-defeating delusions.

And as a person who has had a life-long disability, I speak from personal experience when I say it is NOT hard at all to become susceptible to a victim-identity complex even when one is a regular Alfred Einstein.

What I have been highlighting here is that when we start comparing ourselves to whats out there, it will lead to insecurities of inequity either way.

Being out of touch with reality gives rise to insecurities, not the other way around.

I think Verns message only reinforces the realizations of our duality separations and only internal and external struggles ensue from them.

Vern was a spiritual teacher who knew very well about the problems which stem from dualistic thinking. It is only you, that is projecting your own egoic-fears onto Vernon?s quote.

"Upon observing a fault in yourself, neither justify nor condemn
it. To justify or condemn means you are using the habitual way of
thinking, the mechanical way of thinking, which always divides
everything into opposites, like justification and condemnation or
right and wrong. Observe the fault from a third viewpoint, which
is above these opposites, which frees you. The third viewpoint is
quiet awareness."


~Vernon Howard



Before I continue? look at the definition of objective and subjective.
From Dictionary.com:
ob?jec?tive      P  Pronunciation Key  ( b-j k t v)
adj.
1. Of or having to do with a material object.
2. Having actual existence or reality.
3.
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected.
5. Grammar.
a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb.
b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case.

n.
1. Something that actually exists.
2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. See Synonyms at intention.
3. Grammar.
a. The objective case.
b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case.
4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. Also called object glass, objective lens, object lens.

I am using the word in definition Adj. No. 2 ? NOT No. 1, if that is what you are thinking.

sub?jec?tive      P  Pronunciation Key  (s b-j k t v)
adj.
1.
a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
2. Moodily introspective.
3. Existing only in the mind; illusory.
4. Psychology. Existing only within the experiencer's mind.
5. Medicine. Of, relating to, or designating a symptom or condition perceived by the patient and not by the examiner.
6. Expressing or bringing into prominence the individuality of the artist or author.
7. Grammar. Relating to or being the nominative case.
8. Relating to the real nature of something; essential.

I am using the word as described by definitions 1, 2, 3 and 4.


Now if Susan kept her sense of truth subjective that changes everything for the better. If Susan took empowerment over deciding for herself what Susan is, Susan can decide if she is smart or dumb for herself. Susan can decide if her speech impediment is a problem for her to work on or not. Susan can decide if she has something to offer other people that gives her value besides her voice. Susan is free to be as a subjective being in a subjective world.

One does not need to be self-delusional into believing volition exists, in order to have volition.

Susan is trapped left and right in a subject object world. Note the trapped in the left and trapped in the right under tone....duality and struggles. She's less good for having a speech impediment and she is more good for having a higher IQ.

Between Susan and Susan she is just a girl with a speech impediment and intelligent, her truth. Between Susan and the objective reality she is worse here, better there- crap to deal with trying to balance the scales.


It is because of people not being in touch with objective reality that Susan is even being subject to emotional abuse! It is because Susan was ALSO not grounded in reality, that she completed the victimizer/victim sequence.
But it seems you cannot grasp this and suggest that being in touch with objective reality, means dualistic thinking somehow will have higher merit.
Objectively, you and I just ARE. Objectively, Life just IS.
All I am referring to here is the acceptance of the ISness of the matter-in-hand, and THEN taking action ? from there. How hard is this to understand?

You seem to be suggesting that:
A)Being in touch with objective reality, necessitates dualistic thinking, and
B)Not being in touch with objective reality, necessitates the lack of dualistic thinking.

Is this correct?

Skorp, what if Susan had a less then average IQ and that was a provable fact from tests she took in comparison to others?

Then it that?s just the simple fact that she scored at such and such during such and such time of her life-span. That?s it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Then, Susan must get real with herself and accept her truth as having a different type of intellect than the norm.

Correction mine. I accept the truth that I have a certain disability, as it would be frankly preposterous for me to live in complete denial of reality and claim ?ah but I CAN in fact do X action!? When it is simply not physically possible for me to do action X.

I guess that justifies the name calling then and Susan's self esteem can tank and Vern will be pleased with himself.

Hmm? sounds like you obviously were one of the not-so-nice kids in school, then.
You and I both know that nothing objectively justifies your daughter Ariela [btw, I happen to have an aunt who lives in Florida, with a daughter named Ariel] being subject to such emotional abuse for whatever differences she has.

Objectively, we all have physical and psychological differences, but only when subjectivism is brought into play, can such differences ever be labeled in dualistic thought, i.e. ?this is GOOD/BAD??

what if Susan decides not to care what the others think and to love and think well of herself just as she is? There's a novel idea, self acceptance?

-clap clap clap- Finally! You have grasped it!

What if she decides to dream big for herself and see herself up on stage as a prima ballerina and through her dreams and fantasies of what is not true or fact in the "linear" now, she works to become a prima ballerina. In her adult life she becomes one for real, inspired by the dreams that carried her away from the name calling, and experiences a wonderful sense of self accomplishment and self fulfillment through her dance?

That's great... I hope she has some strong, strong toes. :smile:

The facts of the human experience often times are not pretty.

They are as they are.

What about the question I asked about the boy who's home was bombed, family killed and existed in the middle of a war with nothing but himself. Should he accept the facts and get real with himself? Then what?

He can only do what he can only do. If there is somewhere to seek shelter, he can do so. If there is someone who he can seek help from, he can do so.
If none of the above are available, and he is totally stranded with no water, food, and civilization within any reasonable distance.. Then he will either die or survive ? one way or another.
Simple as that. He can go and sit in a corner and psychologically pretend he is in Hawaii, but the facts remain the same.






--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3974563 - 03/27/05 12:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

hey hey, his middle quote about the third option is Great! That's what I am talking about!

When you rise above the "facts and the fiction" you are there, everywhere and no where and in both!

Vern just said what I have been saying and he contradicted the first quote you posted of his.

I can understand how that can happen because both views can be so, depending on your point of perspective.

When there is a problem, in Vern's first passage you posted, he gave two options. One was right and one was wrong.

Now, in this second bit of his you put up he gave the third choice.

There are always 3 choices, not two. There is the one the other and then both or neither, same difference.

That's all I was saying Skorp, you take the object merge it with the subject and you get a third option. Thanks for clearing this up. :wink:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3974720 - 03/27/05 01:29 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
When one is conscious of every aspect of their experience and does not limit or fragment that experience at all, it seems that they are as close to God as one can be.




All that's left to do is to remove your need for an "external" source and take the leap of faith into that uncertain abyss, the bottomless chasm of the great nothing. The fall can't kill you, but solid ground will. Funny how that works out.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: Icelander]
    #3974884 - 03/27/05 02:28 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Skorp, I like your post. I realized someone was focusing on the wrong thing here even though I haven't read Vernon ( I will now)

Anyway the above quote reminds me of someone I have read and respect tremendously. Have you read Ken Keyes, Handbook to Higher Consciousness?


No I haven't, but FireworksGod is a strong advocate of that book, and he and I know each other beyond these boards. As it obviously seems, he and I mutually influence one another in spirituality and such.




Pupil:
"One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted. Most people are rather confident of their ability to recognize bullshit and to avoid being taken in by it. So the phenomenon has not aroused much deliberate concern, nor attracted much sustained inquiry.

In consequence, we have no clear understanding of what bullshit is, why there is so much of it, or what functions it serves. And we lack a conscientiously developed appreciation of what it means to us. In other words, we have no theory. I propose to begin the development of a theoretical understanding of bullshit, mainly by providing some tentative and exploratory philosophical analysis. I shall not consider the rhetorical uses and misuses of bullshit. My aim is simply to give a rough account of what bullshit is and how it differs from what it is not--or (putting it somewhat differently) to articulate, more or less sketchily, the structure of its concept. [continued]"

the book is titled,

"on bullshit"


Excellent! :thumbup:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinetrentinxd
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Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 61
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #13298754 - 10/06/10 03:31 PM (11 years, 22 days ago)

You know exactly what im saying help me kill everyones insecurities


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Offlinetrentinxd
Stranger
Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 61
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Reality is your best friend [Re: trentinxd]
    #13299107 - 10/06/10 04:47 PM (11 years, 22 days ago)

Read reality is scary but it isnt, its just a seprate thought on aother page to help you understand


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