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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinevaporbrains
Cub Scout

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 539
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Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: ]
    #1118555 - 12/06/02 11:05 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

god is the product of a fear reaction.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: vaporbrains]
    #1118865 - 12/07/02 12:58 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

god is the product of a fear reaction.

There is no more proof of that theory then there is the theory of God.

I could just as easily say that NOT believing in God is a reaction to wanting to be rebellious...although I don't believe that myself.

I am not saying your statement is untrue or unappreciated I am just saying that there is as much "physical" evidence to support the theory of God that there is to support your theory. Therefore, I respect both theories equally.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1146785 - 12/16/02 07:57 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

We may see something change forms and then call it death, but really all it has done is change.



Then you shouldn?t mind if someone shot you or a loved one to ?death?, since no one actually dies, they just change.

Sure, you can alter the standard definition of death, but I don?t think it really changes our perception of the world. I believe death occurs when the conscious mind ceases to exist, not when the matter in the body ceases to exist (which as you stated, is never). If we call that point in time when consciousness ceases to exist something other than death, as you propose, I don?t see how that changes its significance.

The same argument can be made of the soul. If the soul changes forms, to me that?s as significant as the death of the soul itself, regardless of how you choose to define it.

In reply to:

Beginning, middle and end are terms we create to define time. If the universe never began, and it will never end, then there is no middle. Therefore, I hypothesize that time doesn't exist.



I would agree with you that the time the universe has existed might not be definable, nor is the time that it will continue to exist. However, time can certainly be defined in intervals. If someone is born in 1900, and the year is 1950, then we can say 50 years of time has past since their birth. Regardless, this doesn?t change the conclusion of your hypothesis, that ?The universe was never created, neither was God and neither were we?. That seems like a reasonable conclusion to me (assuming that God exists, and that ?we? is defined by our matter, and not our conciousness; a definition that I don't really care for, although you can define "we" anyway you like).


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1146800 - 12/16/02 08:01 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Nice thoughts. It's impossible to make sense out of nonsense.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1146803 - 12/16/02 08:02 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"there is as much "physical" evidence to support the theory of God that there is to support your theory."

Hopefully you mean NONE.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1147003 - 12/16/02 08:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

What about the evidence that I believe we are all one after taking shrooms, then I come to the Shroomery and people here say the same thing?


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Murex]
    #1147021 - 12/16/02 08:59 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

argh now we get into the "definition of god" talk again - disregard my above post please - its going to be useless if people are just using the definition "god is everything - god is existence"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1147086 - 12/16/02 09:15 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think you misunderstood my post.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Murex]
    #1147154 - 12/16/02 09:51 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

lol do you understand my post? i'm confused


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1147178 - 12/16/02 10:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Me too.  :blush:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Murex]
    #1147195 - 12/16/02 10:13 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I was trying to say there's no physical evidence that God exists, which was proven wrong by you (without you intending to do so apparently) by saying what I thought meant "god is everything - everything is here so thats pretty good evidence"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1147202 - 12/16/02 10:16 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

- its going to be useless if people are just using the definition "god is everything - god is existence"





I think that it is highly likely that this, in fact, is the case. In other words, on the subatomic level, everything is one universal conciousness. Of course god could also be what physics would refer to as the fourth dimension, the coordinate plane that the entire universe lies on.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Remy]
    #1147219 - 12/16/02 10:27 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

why call it "god" then if its going to end up taking such a scientific meaning that has never been conventionally implied?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1147266 - 12/16/02 11:26 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Then you shouldn&#8217;t mind if someone shot you or a loved one to &#8220;death&#8221;, since no one actually dies, they just change.

I NEVER said that if someone shot a loved one that I wouldn't mind. I never ever said that. I never implied that. I never meant that. I never pretended that. I never said anything like that. What I said was, death wasn't the end. What we call "death" is really just a change, and a sudden change can be terribly disruptive and emotionally hard to come to terms with. So, yes I would mind if someone I loved was shot, but I believe it would not be goodbye.

Please, friend, stick with what I actually DO say, there is still plenty to pick apart. :smile:

Sure, you can alter the standard definition of death, but I don&#8217;t think it really changes our perception of the world.

Have you ever been to a funeral at a church where they don't believe in the afterlife? Have you been to one where they do? There is an astonishing difference in how the death is delt with and thought about. I think your definition of death is very important to how you perceive the world. How could it not be? If you thought death was the end and it was goodbye or if you thought death was more of, "I'll see you later" it significantly changes your perception of the world, in my opinion.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1147267 - 12/16/02 11:29 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Hopefully you mean NONE.

I do actually.

I believe in God, but I can't prove it. Those who don't believe in God can't prove he DOESN'T exsist, IMO.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1147291 - 12/17/02 12:03 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

I NEVER said that if someone shot a loved one that I wouldn't mind



Well, you said you ?believe that the traditional idea of death and destruction really doesn't exist?. I guess I?m having a difficult time trying to understand the point you are trying to make. I completely agree with you that matter goes on forever, but I don't understand why that should make me feel better about death. Should I be happier knowing that my death will bring new life to worms? Isn?t that what you implied when you said ?any destruction can also be viewed as creation.?.
In reply to:

I think your definition of death is very important to how you perceive the world. How could it not be? If you thought death was the end and it was goodbye or if you thought death was more of, "I'll see you later" it significantly changes your perception of the world, in my opinion.



I absolutely agree. But if the ?see you later? is nothing more than my molecules continuing to exist with my loved one?s molecules, perhaps in the form of a worm, that doesn?t make me feel much better.
I think what you were trying to do (correct me if I?m wrong) is to draw a parallel between matter?s continued existence and the soul?s. That?s why I said ?The same argument can be made of the soul. If the soul changes forms, to me that?s as significant as the death of the soul itself, regardless of how you choose to define it.? In other words, I wouldn?t feel better about my soul unless it continued to exist AS MYSELF, rather than changing into something else.


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1147964 - 12/17/02 07:42 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

What happens to the soul is probably one of, if not the greatest mystery of all. It can definetely be unnerving to think that our consciousness ceases to exist, especially in the frame of how small we are in universe such as the one we live in. It is possible that the true origin of religion is just a provided comfort that our souls continue to exist beyond death.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1148133 - 12/17/02 08:38 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Shroomalicious,

you may have missed the burden of proof thread a while back....

I'll point out the burden of proof for you:

Person A: I believe there is something called God.
Person B: Proove it.
Person A: Proove it DOESN'T exist <-ah-ha!! ah! right there you're denying your own claim. You can't push the burden of proof back onto the "objectioner." Basically I guess what it comes down to is that when people say "There is a God" they are making a claim that has absolutely NO support, depending on the definition of God..

When somebody makes a claim that something EXISTS, and is asked to prove it, replying with "well you can't prove it DOESN'T exist" is kind of against social rules - you made the claim - you back it up. If I claim that God is a human invention, then maybe that when you can ask me to prove it, but if somebody claims God exists, they have to back up that claim, not ask the skeptic to do a similarly impossible task.

See I could make the claim that you are completely insane and never have any idea whats going on ever. You could say something like "hahaa thats bullshit.." and I could say "prove its not true. prove you're not a complete loon." thats just a bullshit situation - I should have to prove that you're crazy, not the other way around - after-all I made the claim. That being said, I don't believe you're crazy I was just using that as example.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
a: There were green elves dancing in my bedroom last night
b: yeah right.. prove there were green elves dancing in your bedroom
a: Prove there WEREN'T....
b: hey don't push your burden of proof back on ME pal


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Remy]
    #1148173 - 12/17/02 08:47 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It is possible that the true origin of religion is just a provided comfort that our souls continue to exist beyond death. 




Remy, I couldn't agree more!  :wink: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Death & Time don't exist. Where God comes from... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1148176 - 12/17/02 08:49 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

My proof for the existence of "God" is existence itself.


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