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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386466 - 07/05/23 09:57 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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The white matter correlation would make perfect sense in light of what I think I understand from this thread. Just talking about the extent to which engram formation happens and that seems clearly correlatable to the extent to which voluntary motor behavior that is synchronized with external motion occurs
I didn't ask for a lot of white skin I didn't ask for a lot of white matter but I probably got a lot more than most people of both. I didn't know that's probably why they dragged me in for IQ test and shoot when I was five and try to put me into a certain kind of program but my parents said no and left me in public school and put me in a different but also very special kind of program where I learned half the day/subjects in Spanish beginning at kindergarten, though I'd never have spoken it at home, which I think is very important so the way that I turned out to be. but I never put any stock in it until college when I lazily decided to get my second/'monetizable' major in Spanish. I only tried directly monetizing that ability for about a week before throwing in the towel. I use it constantly now bc half of my county is spanish-speaking but i monetized an unrelated skilled based license
For whatever it's worth most of the people with a seemingly above average pattern recognition ability/('white matter?') that I know have much darker skin than I do but that's hard not to do. The most seemingly enlightened people that I know are brown- of south Asian origin. probably partially because they come here and people from Scandinavia don't come here so much but I just say that to say that I don't think there's any correlation between skin color and intelligence or enlightenment
Edited by morrowasted (07/05/23 10:05 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386471 - 07/05/23 10:03 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Agreed, for the more important bits, and in those respects I wish we could see a molecular configuration for the layout associated with the corresponding matter . ahhh... 
:piperdream: butsrlyiwish:
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386478 - 07/05/23 10:08 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Agreed, for the more important bits, and in those respects I wish we could see a molecular configuration for the layout associated with the corresponding matter . ahhh... 
:piperdream: butsrlyiwish: 
I mean a lot of progress seems to be getting made
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-020-0829-3
Quote:
Neuroimaging studies have uncovered the neural roots of individual differences in human general fluid intelligence (Gf). Gf is characterized by the function of specific neural circuits in brain gray-matter; however, the association between Gf and neural function in brain white-matter (WM) remains unclear. Given reliable detection of blood-oxygen-level-dependent functional magnetic resonance imaging (BOLD-fMRI) signals in WM, we used a functional, rather than an anatomical, neuromarker in WM to identify individual Gf. We collected longitudinal BOLD-fMRI data (in total three times, ~11 months between time 1 and time 2, and ~29 months between time 1 and time 3) in normal volunteers at rest, and identified WM functional connectomes that predicted the individual Gf at time 1 (n = 326). From internal validation analyses, we demonstrated that the constructed predictive model at time 1 predicted an individual’s Gf from WM functional connectomes at time 2 (time 1 ∩ time 2: n = 105) and further at time 3 (time 1 ∩ time 3: n = 83). From external validation analyses, we demonstrated that the predictive model from time 1 was generalized to unseen individuals from another center (n = 53). From anatomical aspects, WM functional connectivity showing high predictive power predominantly included the superior longitudinal fasciculus system, deep frontal WM, and ventral frontoparietal tracts. These results thus demonstrated that WM functional connectomes offer a novel applicable neuromarker of Gf and supplement the gray-matter connectomes to explore brain–behavior relationships.
Pretty much the second they can get AI coordinated with sufficiently sized quantum computing, or even just regular digital computing with enough memory/processor power/energy input, the brain modeling game is over. Either a predictive model will emerge or it won't
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] 1
#28386487 - 07/05/23 10:13 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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I never really took mathematics seriously as a way of knowing truths about the world except to the extent to which it could be used to make increasingly predictive quantified models. I never took any formal math after cal 1, but I did do literally all of formal logic that was done to the date where it was proven that what formal logic we have could already do the most it ever would be able to. I even tutored formal/symbol logic, along with almost anything language related, to monetize my livelihood for a bit
Actually thought I was pretty bad at math for most of my life but it turns out that I just didn't see the point of doing it unless it was absolutely necessary until very recently.
It's become very clear to me now that the smartest people in the world are uncertain about very fundamental questions like "do numbers exist? Does anything except numbers exist? If they do, how many are there? An uncountable number or countable number? Why?"
I feel like if any of these questions could be answered then a lot of other things would fall into place
On duolingo I'm currently listed as the fastest learner of Greek at this level, and the one before it. It's not even that close actually. It took me out all of about 5 minutes to learn the Greek alphabet since I already know most of the other important alphabets
Edited by morrowasted (07/05/23 10:31 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386507 - 07/05/23 10:46 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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as a directionless abider stargazing away my final days ahead and as someone who's already squandered more than enough resources for a lifetime
-oof-
exploring more languages, why not?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/05/23 10:54 PM)
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28386510 - 07/05/23 11:00 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:

as a directionless abider stargazing away my final days ahead and as someone who's already squandered more than enough resources for a lifetime
-oof-
exploring more languages, why not?
I decided to study Greek and Hebrew because I grew up in basically a religious cult that was literal in terms of its interpretation of the bible, and heavily encouraged children to be afraid of this thing called hell and hope for this thing called heaven, even though the description of heaven we were given seemed super fucking lame- the description of hell was clearly way worse and we were 6-9 years old... They knew exactly what they were doing when they introduced the concept at the time that they did.... And they simultaneously had no idea what they were doing. Interestingly the cult that I grew up in has congregations that meet in several different languages- English, Spanish, and mandarin. There's only a handful of members who are able to speak more than one of these two languages and all of them have a certain look in their eye that the others do not. I'm not sure that they're being forthright about their intentions for being there. They may be trying to subtly and secretly undermine the efforts of those trapped within monolingualistic semantics. One way or another the Cult is losing ground over time. Even my own parents have admitted that upon reconsideration they realize hell doesn't exist, at least not as some kind of other worldly realm or place that people go after their bodies die
The problem is that it was literally interpreting English translations of the bible. Most of the people were using a specific translation but it doesn't even matter that some people were using different ones. Nobody was reading the text in the languages that it was written. I can think of way too many instances where the meaning of the text got lost when it was attempted to be translated into english. The English word hell simply doesn't exist in Hebrew or in Greek. It was subsequently created by a sadistic and or masochistic person, fully embodied in Dante's inferno, and then superimposed upon the kjv translation, from which subsequent translations entirely or partially derived, anytime the word sheol, Hades, Gehenna or targamum appear. Subsequent translations stopped translating sheol into hell, at least every time, and just left it in the original language as with the word amen, when it became really obvious that the Hebrew word meant nothing like hell and literally just meantt burial but most people were so mesmerized with the dear of this false concept that they were too far gone

These competitors don't seem to stand a chance. I mean admittedly I only work like 25 hours a week but I also only use this program for a few minutes every time I do and I just fly through with perfect scores. Because I know Spanish better than most native speakers in English than most native speakers and Latin better than 99.5% of any speakers because there are no native Latin speakers, and learned a lot of Latin by virtue of learning medicine I basically already know Greek once mapping the alphabet to ours, except for certain vocab
Edited by morrowasted (07/05/23 11:16 PM)
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386514 - 07/05/23 11:17 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
sudly said: If you think an undiscovered force plays a role then feel free to say so.
I think the bigger problem is that the force may be discoverable but never truly measurable or capable of being quantified to create predictive models.
Let's say there is an undiscovered force, why assume it will be what provides an explanation of mental phenomenon?
Or why assume it would be outside the scope of a scientific framework.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386516 - 07/05/23 11:19 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Every time I find myself running into a wall I find something in philology or observational phenomenology that keeps me wondering more.
It's more frustrating to me that so many people don't seem to know anything about incompleteness as a proof than the fact that almost nobody seems to realize that the amount of gold on this planet far exceeds the amount that any physical models that do account for how much of the other elements we observe on the planet can account for but both of them keep me asking
The lack of proof remains as does the extreme excess of gold
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386519 - 07/05/23 11:21 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Let's say there is an undiscovered force, why assume it will be what provides an explanation of mental phenomenon?
Or why assume it would be outside the scope of a scientific framework
because mental and behavioral phenomena remain the most unpredictable of all. I can plug numbers into an equation and predict where an alleged particle will supposedly be up to 14 digits with the right tools
I can make a pretty good guess about what people will say or think next but nowhere close to that
Like even with RGV there's an extent to which I can guess what kinds of constraints will be involved in whatever response he makes. He seems either not interested in looking at phenomena below a particular level, or he's already accepted that doing so is a task that should be delegated to other people. I absolutely cannot predict exactly what he will say or what you will say. On the other hand I can predict with much greater than above average chance what the user longbus will say in response to any given post
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted] 1
#28386520 - 07/05/23 11:24 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Do you not think people can have the same experience? I think it's improbable but not implausible.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386525 - 07/05/23 11:26 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Do you not think people can have the same experience? I think it's improbable but not implausible.
I think that anytime a person maps the perception of an apparently single entity and they map it onto a concept like the Arabic numeral 1 they are having the same kind of experience. I think anytime somebody hears a vowel sound of a particular frequency they are having the same kind of experience. Consonants are obviously more fuzzy. I can't explain to you exactly why but if you start studying a lot of languages it will become obvious that vowel sounds are far more universally experienced. Consonants are simply ways of interrupting vowel sounds. Without any consonant interruptions everyone would just say yyyyyahhhhhhhh. Literally. And it's probably not a coincidence Yah is... Well, Yah way. rastafari just call it Yah and cut the rest of the bs maybe by virtue of being perpetually stoned, who knows
I think that if every photoreceptor appliance in the world had the same set and density of subparts then the experience of colors would be the same. I think that the experience of edges would vary according to the scale or size of the appliance
Edited by morrowasted (07/05/23 11:34 PM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386526 - 07/05/23 11:29 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Simply put, more or less, yes.
If by that you mean anything along the lines of:
A moment shared of the taking in of things together, atom by atom, instant by instant.
If not that, then what was it exactly to which you were referring to?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/05/23 11:36 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386527 - 07/05/23 11:30 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Or why assume it would be outside the scope of a scientific framework.
simply put, the most proven proposition that exists is that there is at least one kind of phenomena that is outside of the scope of scientific framework, if what you mean by the scientific framework is creating models that use quantities
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386533 - 07/05/23 11:37 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Simply put, more or less, yes.
If by that you mean anything along the lines of:
A moment shared of the taking in of things together, atom by atom, instant by instant.
If not that, then what was it exactly to which you were referring to?
This video is extremely obscure and honestly probably 50 of the views it has are my own but I think it State something important when it says that the past, the present, and the future are both being revealed in terms of what we call photon by photon
"In mainstream physics, there is no objective understanding of the moment of now..."
It begins there and then invokes a whole lot of extremely complicated math and concepts
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386538 - 07/05/23 11:43 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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If I don't feel like learning og Hebrew is too much trouble than maybe I'll try learning something actually difficult like one of the north scandanvian languages
The more I learn about language the more I'm convinced that either a remnant of an ancient and almost entirely demolished civilization with a different notation system existed or that there were some kind of intervention, whether you want to call it Divine or alien or interdimensional or whatever
I totally blew off all the claims that the original Hebrew language came from black Africans but I'm not so sure anymore
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386539 - 07/05/23 11:43 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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The mysterious radiance!!! 
Lovely, isn't it?
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386540 - 07/05/23 11:46 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
The mysterious radiance!!! 
Lovely, isn't it?
It can be the most frustrating or or the most lovely depending upon the mindset
I regularly use chemicals to change my mindset and so I've been able to see it both as very lovely and very ugly at various times. Most people don't use nearly as many chemicals as I do and their propensity to see it as ugly or the opposite is more rooted in whatever chemical soup and set of gathered impressions- (white matter density contingent?) they have, altered by intention or not
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28386544 - 07/05/23 11:47 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Do you not think people can have the same experience? I think it's improbable but not implausible.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Simply put, more or less, yes.
If by that you mean anything along the lines of:
A moment shared of the taking in of things together, atom by atom, instant by instant.
If not that, then what was it exactly to which you were referring to?
Then why believe in a hard problem?
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sudly
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: morrowasted]
#28386546 - 07/05/23 11:50 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
Or why assume it would be outside the scope of a scientific framework.
simply put, the most proven proposition that exists is that there is at least one kind of phenomena that is outside of the scope of scientific framework, if what you mean by the scientific framework is creating models that use quantities
That doesn't really make sense, how can something be outside the scope of scientific frameworks if it isn't yet proven to be outside of it?
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morrowasted
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Re: a demonstration in Javascript of the ideas in the original post [Re: sudly]
#28386547 - 07/05/23 11:50 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Then why believe in a hard problem
because there's been so many people who have asked it.
You're basically in a position right now where you either say that every single person who is ever acted like a hard problem of consciousness existed was delusional. If you want to do that then you have to explain what was making them delusional and how.
The alternative is that you actually explain it. Actually explaining it would involve creating a predictive model in the same way that we have predictive models about where the Earth will be relative to the sun tomorrow to such a great degree of accuracy that anything we might want to do would not be affected by whatever lack of accuracy remains
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