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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27489362 - 10/01/21 11:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It seems that sympathy is a skill that the world needs to cultivate more. Ego, not so much.

So everything in the consciousness modeling 101 diagram is like a flowchart of the hardware, and the "sense of self" (in all of its necessary and base forms) is like the standard issue firmware in all vertibrates, while everything else that we load into it is like software?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27489390 - 10/02/21 12:44 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

So consciousness is precisely identified with the precise current thing we are focusing on.. with degrees if your whole consciousness is based on the idea that what your most curious about is what you are most high on..

You know the commercial in Canada about smoking weed and then driving.. and the guy on the pack of zigzags says "you are high!"?

That is what it is like!

Your curiosity will never go away..

Buddha spent a life time denying this..

Jesus thought it was the path to salvation..

But beware curiosity and go insane in an instant!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27489529 - 10/02/21 05:32 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
It seems that sympathy is a skill that the world needs to cultivate more. Ego, not so much.

So everything in the consciousness modeling 101 diagram is like a flowchart of the hardware, and the "sense of self" (in all of its necessary and base forms) is like the standard issue firmware in all vertibrates, while everything else that we load into it is like software?



If you want that metaphor, ok, sort of.
the software is less a bunch of instructions and more like huge data sets in series: examples containing innate groupings, like what goes with what, and what follows what.

our bilaterally symmetrical bodies swim through that complex environment of potential meanings and firm associations, discovering what works along the way.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27489540 - 10/02/21 05:41 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
So consciousness is precisely identified with the precise current thing we are focusing on.. ...




Consciousness is the total activity of all non-suppressed senses and all active thought forms (perceptions) each moment, which includes what you focus on, and includes how resonant (stoned or emotional) you are.

I never saw that commercial, but we don't have tv here, just netflix prime and downloads.

focus is like center stage, we still have the music pit, the seated audience, the history of getting to the show, popcorn, washroom breaks, cell phone vibrations, etc. etc.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27490381 - 10/02/21 08:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

RGVs cool man.. good analogy/metaphor!

What role do you think metaphor plays in consciousness..?

Surely in a deep state of dreaming we switch from logical focus to a metaphorical background..


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27490422 - 10/02/21 09:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Metaphor and/or representative association is huge in consciousness. Pavlovian responses, anchors,... all are in that group. No?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27490448 - 10/02/21 10:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Pavlovian responses are direct associations of things reward and behaviour..

So I'm not sure how metaphor fits that conclusion?

Can you be more precise?


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27490458 - 10/02/21 10:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Pavlovian responses are not inherently rewards.

The human brain can make associations with things that are completely unrelated, such as peanuts and the need to produce histamines. Id est, allergies, which are entirely in the brain. The brain senses peanuts and then makes an association to something dangerous, and sends out histamines.

A metaphor is an association in the brain. So is a Pavlovian response-- its just an association. Some men have a Pavlovian response to seeing high heels such that they are aroused just by seeing those and other certain types of clothing, even without the beautiful woman wearing them. Or some wives see their husband and feel bad, see their husband and feel insulted, see their husband and get griped at,... then over time they immediately feel terrible when they see their husband. I think a lot of marriages end that way.

Your favorite decor, favorite smell,... quite possibly both Pavlovian associations that you've learned to associate with pleasure. For me, rustic country decor is a metaphor for camping trips, riding, and other associations I've linked-up in my brain.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27490506 - 10/03/21 12:06 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh, so the connection from one thing to another is metaphor?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27490645 - 10/03/21 05:45 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

creativity is a jolly dyslexia, wonderfully functional and enjoyably informative

metaphor is in that domain of mental activity i think


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27491128 - 10/03/21 02:22 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Connections can be metaphorical in the brain when one thing represents another, but they can be quite literal too. I think our brains are very quick to start linking unrelated things together. We seem programmed from birth to seek out familiar patterns in the unfamiliar.



--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27491299 - 10/03/21 05:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
Connections can be metaphorical in the brain when one thing represents another, but they can be quite literal too. I think our brains are very quick to start linking unrelated things together. We seem programmed from birth to seek out familiar patterns in the unfamiliar.






the brain finds things even without a seek underway, but when it does find some rich related thing in a particular context, then some seeking routines begin - they are not hardwired, but related matching is the basic association activity of perception which is on all the time as well as sensation and memory formation.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27511372 - 10/20/21 12:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

In this page: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/

my area of exploration is the “neural correlates of consciousness” or NCCs. and in particular these references might be interesting:
  • binding through synchronous oscillation (Singer 1999, Crick and Koch 1990)
  • thalamically modulated patterns of cortical activation (Llinas 2001), reentrant cortical loops (Edelman 1989),



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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27512078 - 10/21/21 05:32 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Will read. I understand synchronous oscillation as it relates to physics, but have seen little of it regarding the mind, beyond exotic conjecture. Sounds quite fascinating.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #27512179 - 10/21/21 08:03 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
Will read. I understand synchronous oscillation as it relates to physics, but have seen little of it regarding the mind, beyond exotic conjecture. Sounds quite fascinating.



it is not an exotic conjecture:
to fix a moment into a memory engram (like a photo)
the signals of that moment feed through the thalamus to the cortex synchronously (which defines moment)- the thalamo-cortical circuits (one for each incoming sensory nerve) are wired head to tail so that they feed back a few times (6-10 cycles usually unless emotional or stoned) - This synchronous oscillation establishes the tiny subset of all cortical (and thalamic) neurons that are uniquely active in the moment being experienced.

Oscillation is not enough to create the binding, but it does separate the actives from the resting cortical neurons.

In addition to the oscillation, what else happens is that each activated cortical neuron (besides firing back at the thalamic neuron that gave it a buzz,) generates an electric field that spreads through the dendritic mass of brain tissue (this is picked up by eeg). Where the fields cross peak energy events occur (aka constructive interference) that stimulate Pyramidal neurons to fire

- but pyramidal neurons fire through highly branched axons reaching hundreds of cortical neurons, and the fractional energy from each branch is not enough to stimulate any cortical neurons unless they have been previously linked (i.e. this is the mechanics of perception - where previously linked cortical neurons are re-activated).

when a branch from a pyramidal neuron does touch a dendrite of an active cortical neuron, a protein spike forms. When several spikes form, a dependable memory circuit is made - Thousands of which combine together as the engram of a moment of experience in memory. [all as a result of synchronous oscillation]

I keep trying to explain it in different ways - it is the way impressions are left in the soft mud of our minds.

(few of the readings make sense end to end.)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27513130 - 10/22/21 02:18 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:2cents:






--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly]
    #27513171 - 10/22/21 04:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
:2cents:








I wonder what date that book was published and for which audience,
do you have a title?
yes the thalamus is a relay, no it does not process signals, it is a relay.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27513172 - 10/22/21 04:25 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

From 2007, but what difference does it make if the thalamus is processing signals, or relaying them?

'Evolve your brain', By Joe Dispenza.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly]
    #27513177 - 10/22/21 04:35 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

as a relay, there is little question about what it needs to do
A) send incoming sensory to cortical neurons
B) send incoming cortical back to cortex (feedback) unless Hypothalamus suppresses the circuit. (part of channel reduction for attention focus)
C) conduct motor signals to spinal chord through the brain stem from the cortex.

as a processor, what work need it do?

processing is what neuro-scientists say when they do not have a good idea of how processing is working or what is being processed, it is a general term, and it matters when you are trying to understand something
- i.e. is it a placeholder for an answer, or a spreader bar to keep a question open? (I have chosen the latter, and proposed a system wide explanation and dropped the spreaders to see it working on my screen)

so Joe Dispenza, thanks, he's a self help guru with quasi scientific rationale, OK, no further questions, your Honor.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27513187 - 10/22/21 04:52 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Depends on what you consider as evil.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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