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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27578111 - 12/11/21 10:40 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Consciousness as a processor of data/information?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27578112 - 12/11/21 10:40 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

But then we ask, whos in control?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27578238 - 12/12/21 04:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Consciousness as a processor of data/information?



I would strongly resist calling consciousness a processor, or even calling the brain a processor, but the process of
simultaneously sensing, perceiving, and forming memory engrams is consciousness, and the brain's business is managing the body and supporting consciousness or mental existence.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #27578244 - 12/12/21 04:22 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
But then we ask, who's in control?



habits take over (reflexive perceptions):

the more we know, the more automatic our behavior.
when we are uncertain, we tend to copy the next guy.

the way of the student however, involves more presence, work, and connection to what is happening. the way of wonder, or the way of the child can be even more present.

who is in control of how present we are in our actions and choices?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27579186 - 12/12/21 07:53 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
But then we ask, who's in control?



who is in control of how present we are in our actions and choices?




Someone is.. hut it might not be us..

Those of superior power pulling the strings..

A combination of of the lowest consciousness (instincts and senses) and highest consciousness which is aware of more property's and relations.. and understands how to use things better but has more knowledge from which to access more reasonable choices..

The highest that I can imagine is the knowledge of all the past.. without a blemish or mistake..

Presence in the source of power which IS this moment right now..

Also reasonable projections into the future and the thinking process which is a great resource of potentially infinite life host..

Consciousness as a life host? Both a mix of biological imperatives as well as mental.

Btw RGVs I always appreciate your input.. fun discussions..


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27579598 - 12/13/21 06:22 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

:mushroom2: Happy belated birthday old man :oldman:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27579602 - 12/13/21 06:33 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

why thenk-you!
today is the actual!


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27581376 - 12/14/21 04:39 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Happy belated birthday old man!


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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #27581453 - 12/14/21 05:55 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Happy belated birthday old man!



thanks!

  :dancingbear:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27589036 - 12/21/21 01:50 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

The idea that higher minded thoughts take precedence except whilst dreaming.. in which the associative thoughts take up new states of being (the dream state)

The associative thought loop.. includes all habits that have ever happened.. or to be more plane spoken.. contains the whole of the past.. since ground zero.. when the egg became aware.. the soul evolves too!

An associative memory loop creates the engram..

And the engram should have nothing contrary to what the past is.. which is an etch on eternity.. contained in different types of matter or energy.

When the engram has no mistakes or ignorance.. then free will finds a mode and flows beautifully..


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #27589039 - 12/21/21 02:04 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like you felt for a moment that you had really grasped something, that might be held onto.

Seems at times, I liked a slightly different flavor,
which some geniuses encapsulated long ago, as:
"And this too shall pass."
and
"I had a great insight into impermanence, but I forgot what it was."

But these sentences maybe too simple for your taste;
seems some like rather more complex flavors,
that seem graspable, & worth enthroning.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: laughingdog]
    #27589045 - 12/21/21 02:21 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, the most bacist thoughts mix with the highest of thoughts..

But beauty can be found anywhere..

The combination of the thoughts of lesser significance vs top priority thoughts (which includes secret services and intelligence agencies).. does indeed create a marvelous aroma!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27589096 - 12/21/21 05:04 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

some of your take away's, are confused in terms of RGV's Consciousness 101

but I can see how you get there.

you have to realize that I was not concerned with secret services and intelligence agencies at all in this idea development, but it has kept me from experimental science due to lack of trust of government agencies, and the very real potential of interfering with people's mental contents etc.

secret services and intelligence agencies are about something else than what I am pulling together here as a core description of simultaneously sensing, forming associative memory, and perceiving (which all require the same 10hz feedback thalamo-cortical signal loops - loops of a few pulses that extend to many more pulses during psychedelics and emotional states)

Looping thoughts are related (but result from more complex and time consuming aggregate associative events and resonant mental states) not so much to specific feedback signal loops but to fixation or obsession, which is a cognitive looping habit (like OCD) that has to be learned.

This core thing, [associative memory formation with sensation and perception] and the related side effect of the thalamo-cortical feedback activation - being short term memory (which provides a recent contextual importance or weighting to engram resonance) tells a lot about what we are thinking about, and
the hypothalamic suppression of groups of perceptive signal paths at the thalamus tells a lot about what we are not thinking of (i.e. what top down signals we are suppressing).


I am describing the physical body's system of consciousness, not the organization of humanity or society.


Edited by redgreenvines (12/21/21 05:08 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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the idea of awareness as short term memory [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27685228 - 03/06/22 03:21 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I finally realized the correlation in this scheme for short term memory loss under the influence of marijuana and other psychedelics and those phenomena leading to sleep walking or blackout behaviors - episodes that people are unable to remember living through.



the idea of awareness seems to be the ability to know what you are on about. what is happening now more or less, and we could not say what that is if we were not in the process of memory formation and perception. generating the side effect of awareness.

cortical neuron activity, creates perceptions and new memory powered by thalamic feedback to the cortical neurons, while the ensuing field interference and branched axon minisynapses create spines on active cortical neurons enabling future associative perception while driving current associative perception.

The cortical thalamic activation desists after 6-10 cycles, but the recently active neurons are primed and ready to fire again with minimal provocation - so having been excited to fire leaves the neurons somewhat turned on.

This body of recently active neurons comprises short term memory (STM), which is  the best neural correlation to contextual awareness that I can conceive of in the system, because perception is facilitated among recently active neurons at rest over neurons that were not recently active. (only 5 or 10 minisynapse activations will cause activation versus 15 or 20 minisynapse spines to activate a totally resting cortical neuron.

Typically the STM effect persists for up to five minutes, however when we smoke pot or get stoned on other drugs (or become emotional), Short term memory is not as strong - typically you may enter a room and forget why you went there.

At the same time that STM is reduced however the pot smoker will be experiencing enhanced and layered sensations and mental formations. This means that the cortical thalamic looping is extended, and that tires the cortical neurons, so that when the loop stops (which had enabled moments to stack up) the currently active neurons do not remain hyper responsive for perceptive association in context.

As this occurs, the awareness is diminished, one does not know what is  happening as clearly and may even lose track of themselves.

I think there is a smooth linear relation between getting progressively more resonantly stoned (or emotional or tranced out and having longer cortical thalamic loops), and getting less aware of one's context, who or what we are doing, basically less short term memory.

this kind of brings the whole thing full circle for me.



In the above images, I can feel so lost trying to empathize with the flat eyed look of some of these creatures that seem not to have any awareness of who they are - they are so stoned.

Note perception can still work when there is no short term memory, but it is only useful in the sense of navigating while sleep walking (or driving - yes I heard of that too) and the person with no stm during the incident is unaware of what is happening or has happened. More like a white out than a black out. and basically perceptions and consciousness without any awareness and no new memory formation.

This is different from alzheimers in which short term memory of the last 4 or 5 minutes works, and the person can perceive themselves in a context of sorts but frequently do not know where they are or how they got there, as they do not make new memory. they arer adrift in a 5 minute island of awareness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the idea of awareness as short term memory [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27732264 - 04/13/22 04:01 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/ this is a good overview
as is this one https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/


here is an interesting survey of current work being done on consciousness theory in the scientific communities
https://contrastdb.tau.ac.il/

the page takes several moments to come in.

it is a big family


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Edited by redgreenvines (04/13/22 07:10 AM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: the idea of awareness as short term memory [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27732674 - 04/13/22 10:59 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Can I make a suggestion?
Have you considered that much of what we consider as memory is akin to dreaming? Like what happens in REM where the brain is alight with activity and yet none of it is real. It is only upon waking that one catches up with the present day.

It may be of great benefit to look at what is occurring in long time meditation practitioners and see if there is anything different going on there. I wouldn't depend too much on the masses. We're not trying to repeat the same mistakes after all.

Clean us up, would ya? And don't forget to account for time! :smile:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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dreaming [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27732718 - 04/13/22 11:24 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

what we consider dreaming, is the same as other consciousness, however two main things are different:
1) the reticular formation of the brain stem has the body sensations muted
2) the thalamo-cortical loop is extended (similar to being very stoned, but you are comfortably lying down and largely insensate)

so during the dream, some stimulus (a noise, or fleeting body sensation) initiates a cascade of perceptions (as per usual).
and as per usual when really stoned, what ensues involves layering of mental contents (now called dream imagery) which chimerically blend together due to frame stacking.

then you either wake up and shift to sober in 5 seconds or so, or go back into dreamless sleep.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: dreaming [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27732723 - 04/13/22 11:29 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

What I hear:
1)The ability to act is limited because we do not want to be too confused and hurt ourselves
  • what can we look at for insight on the best way to accomplish this?

2)Time gets distorted but not always in a way which can be remembered
  • I think time is critical. But we definitely need some time with the timeless too



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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: dreaming [Re: Kickle]
    #27732745 - 04/13/22 11:53 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Hey, and what's at the end of a rainbow?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: dreaming [Re: Kickle]
    #27733023 - 04/13/22 03:05 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

more molecules


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