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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Icon]
#27477792 - 09/22/21 05:45 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: I think almost everything is based on habit and precondition, as opposed to divine source. ...
which is why I focus on the importance of associative memory formation and perceptive recall. Intense linkages operate like reflexes - such as are hard wired in the spinal column. repetition of an association intensifies the adds additional slightly different linkages to the the engram (making it more accessible in different circumstances). habituation is just that. the extension of reflex into human learned behaviors.
you can use it in a general collective way to explain things like Amazon if you like, but mapping it is elusive due to individual uniquenesses, like fingerprints of experience. All of us have the idea of "blue" for instance, but our associations with it will be as different as can be imagined peoples life experiences being different.
part of the engram for blue will be common (like plato's ideal form) but most of it will be idiosyncratic and individualized.
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Edited by redgreenvines (05/30/23 10:11 PM)
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Icon
Bloomer


Registered: 05/15/14
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What's your motivation for defining consciousness? I haven't read the whole thread, sorry if I missed that.
I think getting into the nitty gritty of which neuron is firing which direction and causing each and every thought is a bit unnecessary. I think we both agree on the bigger picture being biologically evolved but who are we trying to prove it to? Instead of analyzing the fine hairs to determine that we're looking at an elephant can't we just back up and say yep, looks like an elephant? Occam's razor. I don't think any level of proof will convince the believers who already have their eyes closed.
Mindfulness is good, don't get me wrong. I'm glad we're aware of our habits. The neuroscience talk goes over my head tho. Are we hoping to cure addiction by magnetizing certain neurons or something? What can a 101 understanding of consciousness do for the average person? That's the same question I ask of faith.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Icon] 1
#27477993 - 09/22/21 09:09 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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My interest is in understanding not specifically which neuron fires when but in the very idea of how we store and recall memory in the biological tissues of the brain.
I only posted a summary image of this process which you can see if you click the cheshire cat in my sig below, but I have satisfied myself that this theory accommodates all the statistically observed behaviors of memory formation and recall, including strengthening improving access to memories by repetition, through changing contexts, short term memory (a misnomer but one we hold because it is a remarkable thing, that what was experienced in the last 5 minutes figures more strongly in memory than long term memory)
A few neuro-scientists have been encouraged that this idea also explains holographic engram formation throughout the cortex which is known to occur.
Memory and perception is made possible by the unique organization of thalamus to cortex such that neurons are hardwired to fire back at each other in these two structures, turning each (sensory or mental) neural stimulus into a pulse sequence that is 6-10 pulses normally (more when stoned - yielding frame stacking of experience), and this pulse train powers cortical interference fields or electric waves that makes engram linkages possible across the cortex via field activated pyramidal axons that only make new links with activated cortical neurons (those currently in feedback with the thalamus). I have also come to see that attention focusing is a mental dexterity feature (frontal cortex to hypothalamus to thalamus) that suppresses the TC feed back pump in areas of sensation and thinking.
anyway, it is quite liberating to see that mind is complete in this form without needing any hocus pocus to support all of what we experience. there is no separate recorder, or player, or storage medium for memories and experiencing - it is all one dynamic process: consciousness 100% biophysical.
Edited by redgreenvines (05/30/23 10:08 PM)
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



Registered: 05/21/20
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Icon]
#27478081 - 09/22/21 10:30 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: What's your motivation for defining consciousness? ... What can a 101 understanding of consciousness do for the average person?
I don't know if any discussions on this website are absolutely necessary. That having been said, I think since the dawn of language, one of the oldest discussions that primitive man started having whilst gazing upon the stars was the question, "What am I? What happens to me when I die?"
Regardless of one's religious beliefs or beliefs about religion, I have seen a lot of hokus-pokus discussion about the nature of consciousness in every circle.
I believe in a resurrection of the dead in another universe-- but that is a matter of religion and cannot be proven or disproven using the scientific method. However, some of the most deep questions in the universe can be answered by science.
Many whose brains have been electrified by the mushroom tend to turn their thoughts inward, and if science can help some of us to better understand these questions, then some of us are ready to lap it up with great enthusiasm.
But what is the motivation for asking such questions as "What am I? How am I able to think and call myself 'I'?" I might have to sit by a campfire for a few nights to ponder that one. Perhaps it is hard-wired into our DNA programming, a question we are intended to ask. Maybe that is part of what makes us human and separates us from the beasts. Maybe we are just being silly.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



Registered: 05/21/20
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Red, I wanted to report back to you.
I had been worried about my deteriorating short term memory and taking a robust regimen of brain supplements, doing brain exercises, and even started posting here to try to exercise my brain. After you helped me to see that I don't have a short term memory problem (credit: this thread), I figured that my memory problems must be environmental.
After reviewing the short list of things that our brains need to function properly, I decided it must be my lack of deep sleep due to the wife's snoring. To make a long story short, that problem has been mitigated.
Within a few days, my short term memory has returned to normal, and the speed at which I can think has been increasing nearly to the point it was prior to my small stroke.
I would add, existential curiosity aside, that this thread has (perhaps inadvertently) helped me to improve the quality of my life in a very substantial and pragmatic sense.
So, thanks!
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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Icon
Bloomer


Registered: 05/15/14
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My initial motivation for exploring those questions was to discover/develop superpowers. Like telepathy, astral projection, eternal life, and all the other fun powers the occult promise. All that juicy alchemical, ancient egyptian, alien power. Even basic Christians seek out some of that mystical power via prayer. Or some material gains like writing the next McAfee antivirus after dropping acid, or tapping into alpha energy on mushrooms to pickup women. The new age conspiracy theories leading up to 2012 were a huge influence on me. After that passed it seemed like oh, this is how people have been fooling and grifting each other for millenia.
I've also had close friends and loved ones die over the past few years that has greatly affected my mystical views. Life to me is very short, fragile, precious. I don't get the impression that it's protected, looked after, has a designed purpose or plotted course to other worlds. My trips and analysis of life's greatest questions have led me to think that we worry about it too much. I've spent trips sitting there psychotically plotting out some clever akashic knowledge, instead of being social and growing as a person. The definitions get in the way sometimes I think. Like those jokes "A priest, rabbi, shaman, scientist all walk into a bar. . ." after we loosen up and learn to enjoy each other's company the identities seem to fade away. At the end of the day if it's not solving a medical issue or social issue the understandings are just self-soothing stories.
I like this description by Alan Watts, "We thought of life by analogy with a journey; with a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end. Success or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or to dance."
It kind of ties into the rhythm metaphor. But that's why I ask what RGV's motivation is, because if life is a rhythmic dance to be enjoyed by us it doesn't serve us to think too hard about it. Life is short. If you focus your attention on your dancing or rhythm it's sometimes a distraction. I'm not a musical person but I've heard that thinking too much about it throws you off and you have to just commit and go with the flow. That sums up my latest philosophy, that theorizing is stepping away from the dance itself. But if you come back with some sweet new moves then I wanna see.
Edited by Icon (09/22/21 11:24 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Moses_Davidson said: ...
I would add, existential curiosity aside, that this thread has (perhaps inadvertently) helped me to improve the quality of my life in a very substantial and pragmatic sense.
So, thanks!
That is great news - I am mollified by any benefit with or without attribution
I mean thanks for saying so!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Icon]
#27478191 - 09/22/21 12:18 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icon said: ... It kind of ties into the rhythm metaphor. But that's why I ask what RGV's motivation is, because if life is a rhythmic dance to be enjoyed by us it doesn't serve us to think too hard about it. Life is short. If you focus your attention on your dancing or rhythm it's sometimes a distraction. I'm not a musical person but I've heard that thinking too much about it throws you off and you have to just commit and go with the flow. That sums up my latest philosophy, that theorizing is stepping away from the dance itself. But if you come back with some sweet new moves then I wanna see.
I love the rhythm metaphor, but despite all the tragic manifestations in Allan Watts' story, his bottom line statements are junk oriented (western capitalist mentality based) and that is a shame.
I had been very inspired by Watts in my youth, but I do not believe that life is a goal oriented journey - as suggested by so many of our cultural forebears.
It is however a different personal journey for each of us, and it warrants examination in every way possible. not to be so obsessive, of course, that you do not dance. (I am a terrible dancer (blaming my lame left leg injury as a toddler) but I do dance in private from time to time, there is no holding back... lots of asian head bobbing, and waving of hands...)
What did Socrates say about the unexamined life anyway?
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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So to find that the mystery of life is an ever changing experiencing moment.
It is like we are attaching ideas(engrams) to the chaos of life in an attempt to find meaning..
But because we DO find meaning it is special..
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
#27478924 - 09/22/21 11:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also another question..
I follow my curiosity and sometimes it gets out of order..
My question to you, is why? Why at all does curiosity go to unrighteous things?
Maybe a way to establish freedom of choice and freewill?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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What journal are you going to publish it in?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
#27479063 - 09/23/21 05:17 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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the opposite.
the content of association is not controlled by any built in mechanisms. that means loose thinking can go anywhere especially into mental landscapes that have been considered forbidden.
there is no judgment when it comes to the range of associative thought, especially loose or unfocused thinking. All mental content is equal, not good, not bad, not righteous, not evil. it is the shocking truth, unless certain ideals are the salient triggers for perception, anything goes, but when ideals are the central idea both the passes and the fails will come up equally, but the compass can be set toward the ideals, and so the struggle goes.
over time, you may wish to remove the consideration of what is in order and what is out of order, focus on a few key principles of speech and action, and make those principles habit by repetition (practice). then when free thinking is happening, the habit channels the traffic like railings or tracks. (the issues about what is in order or not is off the board)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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For we have the potential to refine the skills of attention and concentration with a hypothalamic basis of suppression.
How could we learn this.. I think we could find the experience but it comes from bovine refinements.
What stuns the hypothalamus? What tingles the elements. What gives us an original engram? What can we follow.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Asante]
#27480249 - 09/24/21 03:20 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: What journal are you going to publish it in?
You're creating graphics for it, are you going to publish in a journal or write a book?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Asante]
#27480279 - 09/24/21 04:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes I am thinking of writing it as a stoner named redgreenvines
you are all going to be mentioned as well
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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I can't blame you, So did I
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly]
#27480531 - 09/24/21 09:34 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: For we have the potential to refine the skills of attention and concentration with a hypothalamic basis of suppression.
How could we learn this.. I think we could find the experience but it comes from bovine refinements.
What stuns the hypothalamus? What tingles the elements. What gives us an original engram? What can we follow.
in reverso follow the breath each engram feels distinct ergo original phasers on stun stun the bovine culture is a gas learn by repetition practice practice practice
btw, we find hypothalamic suppression using body sensation, looking around for the keys to concentration our baby brain shuttles through all it can, memories of murmurs and sensations until BonK! it finds a glimmer, it goes back to that specific elbownian + gut sensation echo and BonK! the internal accupressure engram results in a hammerlock focus on the thing of interest.
in this way we learn to focus on kinds of sensations and ideas, the keys are hidden in other engrams.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
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does sensation exist if the observer is unaware of it?
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: yes I am thinking of writing it as a stoner named redgreenvines
you are all going to be mentioned as well
thank you so much extra sparkle...
very happy with your posts recently
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Ferdinando]
#27480834 - 09/24/21 01:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferdinando said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: yes I am thinking of writing it as a stoner named redgreenvines
you are all going to be mentioned as well
thank you so much extra sparkle...
very happy with your posts recently
I noticed it too-- I think he is microdosing! : )
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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