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OfflineIsaac
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If the Christian god is real... * 1
    #7637515 - 11/14/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

why didn't he make sure the Bible was written accurately?

There is no Biblical indication that “day” is used differently in the beginning chapter of Genesis than it is throughout the rest of the book, or the rest of the Old Testament. The “days” in Genesis 1 are always specifically used in connection with the words “evening and morning.” This phrase is used with “day” 38 times in the Old Testament, not counting Genesis chapter 1. Each time, without exception, the phrase refers to a normal 24 hour type day.

Even if you refuse to accept the truth and think maybe a day to god is a billion years, ask yourself this.

Why would god not correct a translation error that would compromise its validity? He wouldn't a wise god would correct any errors in his ONLY book, a wise god would stop useless suffering that has NO purpose. Neither have happened because A) an intelligent god doesn't exist or B) god is an asshole. Neither receive my worship and neither shouldn't receive yours.

I'm not saying there isn't a divine presence or a higher power but as for an all knowing merciful god we can pretty much assume there isn't one. The problem is smart people are very good at coming up with completely logical reasons why they believe very illogical things.

Edited by Isaac (11/14/07 11:00 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637534 - 11/14/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I believe there is another passage that says "A day with the lord is as 1,000 years." Personally, I've always wondered how you could consider it to be literally a day when there was no sun and no earth to spin on a 24-hour cycle. I don't think that Biblical literalism holds up to relativity in this case.


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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #7637549 - 11/14/07 09:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

So the earth was created in 6,000 years?

Again this is false.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637554 - 11/14/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you're saved! No more comments! :mad2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MushroomTrip] * 1
    #7637572 - 11/14/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The bible is meant to be read and forgotten

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637573 - 11/14/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Isaac said:
So the earth was created in 6,000 years?

Again this is false.



Considering the passage is allegory, it needn't be interpreted that way either. Remember that people back then didn't even have a concept of a billion. They never saw 6 billion of anything(except grains of sand, but I don't think they were counting).


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Offline2FiNiTe
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637580 - 11/14/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Christ is nothing more than a persona put in the place of the sun, and given the adoration the sun was originally given. Beyond that, the bible and Christian theology is a clone of the Egyptian beliefs, as was their beliefs cloned from ones before them. The root is in astrology.


--------------------
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

Edited by 2FiNiTe (11/14/07 10:11 PM)

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: 2FiNiTe] * 1
    #7637630 - 11/14/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Christ is nothing more than a persona put in the place of the sun, and given the adoration the sun was originally given. Beyond that, the bible and Christian theology is a clone of the Egyptian beliefs, as was their beliefs cloned from ones before them. The root is in astrology.




http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/articles/mithraism_influence_on_christianity.php

There's a good place to start beyond merely stating 'Egyptian beliefs'

I still believe the Christ-Mithraism connection is partially historical revision, part the desire of Christianity to remain viable prior and up to the council of Nicea.

I believe the original point was about Genesis, and the lack of God giving you, the reader, time lines for his 'day.'
My Brother in Law is a Lutheran pastor, and explained it in a manner similar to this:

When the Old Testament was written, it was done so in a manner of speech common to that day. Man's perception of the Creation, or the big bang theory for that matter, are more rooted in imagination to this day, as we find difficulty with eternity and other metaphysical concepts.
However, the point of the Bible's lacking isn't a lazy God, but the necessity of choice. If God gave you irrefutable evidence of anything, without the ability to deny it, he robbed you of choice, the most important concept of the Testaments.

And God doesn't let bad things happen, they happen as a matter of choice and causality. We fuck things up enough without big guns upstairs taking the heat for it.

God didn't write the bible, he 'inspired the hearts of men' and to him the word is sufficient.

Christian bashing to commence in 3,2,1...


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

Edited by Crasher (11/14/07 10:33 PM)

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #7637660 - 11/14/07 10:44 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Isaac said:
So the earth was created in 6,000 years?

Again this is false.



Considering the passage is allegory, it needn't be interpreted that way either. Remember that people back then didn't even have a concept of a billion. They never saw 6 billion of anything(except grains of sand, but I don't think they were counting).




Yes it's allegory, symbolic and shouldn't be taken literally. We can learn from the bible spiritually but interpreting it literally creates many holes.

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Crasher] * 1
    #7637691 - 11/14/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Firewolf127 said:
Quote:

2FiNiTe said:
Christ is nothing more than a persona put in the place of the sun, and given the adoration the sun was originally given. Beyond that, the bible and Christian theology is a clone of the Egyptian beliefs, as was their beliefs cloned from ones before them. The root is in astrology.




http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/articles/mithraism_influence_on_christianity.php

There's a good place to start beyond merely stating 'Egyptian beliefs'

I still believe the Christ-Mithraism connection is partially historical revision, part the desire of Christianity to remain viable prior and up to the council of Nicea.

I believe the original point was about Genesis, and the lack of God giving you, the reader, time lines for his 'day.'
My Brother in Law is a Lutheran pastor, and explained it in a manner similar to this:

When the Old Testament was written, it was done so in a manner of speech common to that day. Man's perception of the Creation, or the big bang theory for that matter, are more rooted in imagination to this day, as we find difficulty with eternity and other metaphysical concepts.
However, the point of the Bible's lacking isn't a lazy God, but the necessity of choice. If God gave you irrefutable evidence of anything, without the ability to deny it, he robbed you of choice, the most important concept of the Testaments.

And God doesn't let bad things happen, they happen as a matter of choice and causality. We fuck things up enough without big guns upstairs taking the heat for it.

God didn't write the bible, he 'inspired the hearts of men' and to him the word is sufficient.

Christian bashing to commence in 3,2,1...




I don't bash any religion. So God didn't write the Bible big deal. It's the one book that represents nearly the entire faith in the Christian religion. If you are disagreeing that an omnipotent potent god of infinite wisdom and power wouldn't correct mistakes and translation errors to ensure the validity of such an important book I'd have to say you're wrong.

You are trading common sense for faith.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 2
    #7637704 - 11/14/07 11:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Firewolf, do you acknowledge the possibility that God had contact not only to the writers of the Bible, but also to Buddha and other figures who genuinely worked for the betterment of the human condition at their own expense?

Isaac, if there is a God, its personality and its consciousness would obviously be so far removed from human comprehension as to render language irrelevant. Do you really think God thinks small enough to edit the Bible or correct chronological errors? Can you imagine it manifesting in a church to have a chat with a monk about all those mistakes in his manuscript?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 11:03 PM)

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #7637725 - 11/14/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Isaac, if there is a God, its personality and its consciousness would obviously be so far removed from human comprehension as to render language irrelevant. Do you really think God thinks small enough to edit the Bible?




In the Bible God talks directly to man, so at least in Biblical terms I'd have to say no god's is not too smart to learn any human language.

There are no boundaries to infinite wisdom.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637738 - 11/14/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

When God speaks through a man, it's just that: God speaking through the use of the limited capacities of an individual human being. Whether or not the Bible was inspired by God, it is subject to the assumptions of the time and people that produced it.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 11:10 PM)

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #7637773 - 11/14/07 11:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Firewolf, do you acknowledge the possibility that God had contact not only to the writers of the Bible, but also to Buddha and other figures who genuinely worked for the betterment of the human condition at their own expense?




I contend that whatever God that is speaks to the heart and mind of every man, but in the end, our subjectivity of the message will be our undoing.

Isaac, the reason a Christian God wouldn't fix grammatical errors and continuity issues with scripture comes back to one of the points I presented earlier: Choice.
Man was inspired to write scripture, but it was man that composed the canonical (sp?) gospels as they are presented today. God would not interfere with a book, as he gave Christ to the world for salvation.
The bible is aimed at bringing man into a relationship with Christ, not satisfying a cynic's desire for perfection of syntax.

It's a fool's errand to try and understand the width and breadth of a living god.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #7637788 - 11/14/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
When God speaks through a man, it's just that: God speaking through the use of the limited capacities of an individual human being. Whether or not the Bible was inspired by God, it is subject to the assumptions of the time and people that produced it.




So in order to communicate with man he had to limit himself?

Can't you see the Bible claims God is omnipotent therefore has no limitations? Where's the evidence of your claim that if god wants to speak with man he has to have the intelligence of man?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637800 - 11/14/07 11:26 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think you misunderstood. The closest thing God has to a mouth is an enlightened human being. The human being is flawed and cannot possibly relate the full awesomeness of God to his fellow human beings. So he does his best, and writes a book.

You also must understood that the people who wrote the Bible did not think like we do. Their minds literally ran on a different track. They barely had a concept of "fiction," let alone all the other literary traditions we rely on today to communicate meaning. The only way they knew to tell stories and explain their world was through symbolism and allegory.

Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 11:28 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637825 - 11/14/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Isaac said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
When God speaks through a man, it's just that: God speaking through the use of the limited capacities of an individual human being. Whether or not the Bible was inspired by God, it is subject to the assumptions of the time and people that produced it.




So in order to communicate with man he had to limit himself?

Can't you see the Bible claims God is omnipotent therefore has no limitations? Where's the evidence of your claim that if god wants to speak with man he has to have the intelligence of man?



God constricting himself in order to form the physical universe(Tzimtzum) is a central Kabbalistic teaching. It is the only way a finite universe could emerge from an infinite God. Consider how minuscule a man is compared to the universe, and then from there how much more minuscule he is compared to God. How could such a small mind comprehend infinity? God had to condense his message to such a feeble mind. It would be like writing a quantum mechanics book for children. There is another Kabbalistic teaching which says that the Torah is not scripture. The scriptures are merely the garment which clothes the Torah. The map is not the territory. The words that describe the map are even further removed from the territory.


--------------------

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac] * 1
    #7637827 - 11/14/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:



Can't you see the Bible claims God is omnipotent therefore has no limitations? Where's the evidence of your claim that if god wants to speak with man he has to have the intelligence of man?




Jesus is God in Christianity, the living word and thus one of the ways God (father) spoke to man.

In Islam, Muhammad received direct revelation from an angel, no?


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Crasher] * 1
    #7637837 - 11/14/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Firewolf127 said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Firewolf, do you acknowledge the possibility that God had contact not only to the writers of the Bible, but also to Buddha and other figures who genuinely worked for the betterment of the human condition at their own expense?




I contend that whatever God that is speaks to the heart and mind of every man, but in the end, our subjectivity of the message will be our undoing.

Isaac, the reason a Christian God wouldn't fix grammatical errors and continuity issues with scripture comes back to one of the points I presented earlier: Choice.
Man was inspired to write scripture, but it was man that composed the canonical (sp?) gospels as they are presented today. God would not interfere with a book, as he gave Christ to the world for salvation.
The bible is aimed at bringing man into a relationship with Christ, not satisfying a cynic's desire for perfection of syntax.

It's a fool's errand to try and understand the width and breadth of a living god.




Man wasn't inspired but was commanded by God to write the Bible. If you really want me to I'll find the verses. So therefore the Bible is the word of God and if you're saying the Bible isn't the infallible word of God than you are directly disagreeing with the very book you believe in and you can throw out any part you don't see fit, which you seem just fine with doing.

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OfflineIsaac
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #7637852 - 11/14/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Isaac said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
When God speaks through a man, it's just that: God speaking through the use of the limited capacities of an individual human being. Whether or not the Bible was inspired by God, it is subject to the assumptions of the time and people that produced it.




So in order to communicate with man he had to limit himself?

Can't you see the Bible claims God is omnipotent therefore has no limitations? Where's the evidence of your claim that if god wants to speak with man he has to have the intelligence of man?



God constricting himself in order to form the physical universe(Tzimtzum) is a central Kabbalistic teaching. It is the only way a finite universe could emerge from an infinite God. Consider how minuscule a man is compared to the universe, and then from there how much more minuscule he is compared to God. How could such a small mind comprehend infinity? God had to condense his message to such a feeble mind. It would be like writing a quantum mechanics book for children. There is another Kabbalistic teaching which says that the Torah is not scripture. The scriptures are merely the garment which clothes the Torah. The map is not the territory. The words that describe the map are even further removed from the territory.




Gods message in the Bible doesn't appear to be that difficult to understand at all, actually I'd say most ignorant people do fine comprehending its central message. You can't put limitations on an omnipotent being you just can't.

But I'm sure were about to go in circles anyway.


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