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Anonymous

Define God - For Nonbelievers
    #1520898 - 05/05/03 01:37 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

So if you're going to say something doesn't exist, shouldn't you define what you're saying doesn't exist first?

So if you do not believe in God, please post exactly what "God" means to you.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1520914 - 05/05/03 01:45 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

hhmmmm. I don't follow. why should they define something they don't believe in?maybe some non-believers don't believe in God because it can't be defined.



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Anonymous

Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1520924 - 05/05/03 01:52 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

You don't follow?

I'm saying if someone says "God doesn't exist," what does the word God represent? God is a word, a subjective idea. God represents something different to different people. If you don't believe in God, what does the word God represent to you? That is what I am asking.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1520930 - 05/05/03 01:57 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

I believe in God so it doesn't apply to me. But I'm saying why should someone have to define something they don't believe in?

maybe they don't believe in it because it's such a vague concept... and they only believe in things that they can define.

usually, the believers are the ones that define God and the non-believers say "well, I don't believe in THAT god", the non-believers don't define it.



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1520954 - 05/05/03 02:06 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Everyone believes in God, some just call it Nature.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (05/05/03 02:07 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1520955 - 05/05/03 02:06 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

That makes absolutely no sense. How can you deny the existance of something you are not defining?


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1520962 - 05/05/03 02:12 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

THAT.......



Is a really good question !!!!



Are you possibly using the following parallel:

.... A child being offered some shrimp from someone for the first time...( For example)....

"would you like a sample?"

"NO!"

"Why not? Have you ever tried it?"

"NO...  But I won't like it! "

"How do you know you won't like it if you've never tried it?"

"I dunno...  He ( pointing to the other kid ) said it was gross! "

---------------------

???  How do you deny something you know nothing of ???

This was just a silly example... lol  :grin:



 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1521016 - 05/05/03 02:46 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

I think you've got a perfectly valid question.

The God I don't believe in is the omniscient, omnipotent being who is Creator of the Universe. Or the other descriptions of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. Since those 3 religions are the vast majority of belief in monotheism I would suspect that most atheists are referring to that particular group of definitions for God.

Also, I've heard other definitions of gods which I don't believe in either. I don't, for example, believe in Zeus, Odin, Brahma, or Amaterasu Omikami.

If you could suggest a reasonable definition of a god (or goddess) and present sufficient evidence of their actual existence I would consider believing in them.

Is that what you're looking for?


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ToxicMan]
    #1521031 - 05/05/03 02:52 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

The God I don't believe in is the omniscient, omnipotent being who is Creator of the Universe.



You don't believe in love?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1521038 - 05/05/03 02:58 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Everyone believes in God, some just call it Nature




That's true. some belive in god and don't even know it.


--------------------
Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1521041 - 05/05/03 03:00 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

But you see, non-believers have to reject an existing definition of God. If they make up their own definition of God, and then reject it, then what's the point?


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1521046 - 05/05/03 03:04 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

People who believe there is no god (complete nonbelievers) would deny the existance of anything that when defined is labeled 'god'.

People who do not believe in a sentient god (partial believers) would deny the existance of any sentient being that when defined is labeld 'god'. These people could still believe in a higher power or non-sentient (life)force that could affect, determine, or manipulate their reality.

This could continue on for each definition of 'god'. Because the idea of 'god' is so subjective, it is rare to find people - even of the same faith - who share a common description or definition of god.

To ask one to define something they don't believe in would require them to describe everything they don't believe in, which is of course impossible.

If I were to define 'god' it would look a little something like this:
god - any person, object, event, concept, or abstract figure in which a person or persons believe(s) to hold a signifigant or all-encompassing understanding, control, and/or supernatural omnipotence over every or particular facet(s) of reality.
God - anything defined as 'god' with the additional attribute of being sentient.


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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (05/05/03 03:06 AM)


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: thestringphish]
    #1521107 - 05/05/03 03:44 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

This is a really good topic, very good question.

I don't believe in things I cannot understand. When I understand something, I believe in it then, but only then. Belief in something incomprehensible, such as an abstract, subjective concept (God) makes absolutely no sense to me.

People have a tendency to want to understand things without having to dig for that understanding. They want so badly to understand things that they take a somewhat-educated guess. They develop hope that their guess is true, and therein develops the problem: Many of us are trying to believe before we know.

The first step is to know, then to believe. If we believe before we know, our path of knowledge becomes 'biased' in a sense. We will then begin to search for evidence which supports a specific theory or 'belief' in order to back it up, and convince ourselves that it's true.

Don't get me wrong. Faith is a word which, to me, represents something very important... however it is a word that I think a lot of people misunderstand. Faith can never be blind. Faith is not a form of hope which makes fantasies become real. When you feel something, and when you know something, then you have faith in it.

Anyways, back to the original question... I wouldn't call myself a "non-believer", and I also wouldn't call myself a "believer". But I'll give you my definition of what the concept of god means to me.

The English word GOD, to me, represents the concept of infinity and eternity. Love, light and pure truth. A higher awareness--THE highest awareness. The being of everything. A great, all-encompassing spirit which all of us are a part of.

I rarely use the word GOD to describe this concept. The reason is that each person has a different understanding of what god is, and they have a tendency to assume that when you say "god" that you are talking about god as they understand god. I usually use the term "higher power" or even "great spirit".But to me, the english word god includes the spirit of the entire cosmos. A great 'force' which includes people, animals, nature, stars, planets, galaxies and any life anywhere in the universe.

**And then there are those who would think that god is a wise old father figure up in the sky, who has 10 things that he doesn't want you to do... and he watches over everybody, every minute of every day, and if you break any of his rules, he has a special place for you... Full of fire and death, where you will go, to burn and suffer and choke and scream and rot, forever and ever until the end of time... Who also loves all of his children.**

**(Paraphrasing of George Carlin's comedy)

There are a frightening number of people in this world who hold this, or a similar concept of god in their imagination.

So, there you have my official definition. GOD: A word which represents an eternal, infinite, infathomable force which encompasses everything in every direction surrounding the source of its creation, which is the greatest mystery of all.

Here's a sentence for you to bend your brain around...

Something cannot come from nothing, because nothing is the same thing as everything.

And I didn't get that from anybody :smile:

Thanks for posting a thought-provoking question!


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1521112 - 05/05/03 03:47 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:


This could continue on for each definition of 'god'. Because the idea of 'god' is so subjective, it is rare to find people - even of the same faith - who share a common description or definition of god.





I hadn't read your post there, JMFC, but you're right on, and sorry if some of the stuff I said is a ripoff of what you said, I didn't know you had posted before me :smile:

You are right on about that though...


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1521130 - 05/05/03 04:06 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

An interesting quote i stumbled upon, I'll be adding it to my sig soon:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ?Stephen Roberts


--------------------



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1521143 - 05/05/03 04:20 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ?Stephen Roberts

"How do I know THIS god (the christian god) is the true god and all other religions' gods are false?"
I asked my pastor this question (though I can't remember the exact words) during catechism class once... he has yet to give me an answer.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1521144 - 05/05/03 04:21 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

A good one indeed


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1521180 - 05/05/03 05:10 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Dude we don't have to define it...... Believers invent and define all sorts of Gods, propose them to others, and the non-believers say "Nah.. I'm not so sure about that theory, pal. I'm glad you're thinking though."

Which God would you like us to define? lol i don't understand your question..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (05/05/03 05:18 AM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1521183 - 05/05/03 05:13 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

"How do you deny something you know nothing of ???"

Well man.. lol the kid SAW and KNEW THE SHRIMP EXISTED before he denied it...

How do you accept something you know nothing of ???

The analogy would be more like this, in my opinion:

Person at Market, holding out empty hand: Hey kid, try this shrimp, its really good.
Kid: what shrimp? there's nothing there...
Person: Its invisible shrimp, kid. here, try it.
Kid, seeing Person tilt his hand so if there were a shrimp there, it would have fallen onto Kid's hand: uhh.. ok.. [kid pretends there's a shrimp there and puts it in his mouth]
Person: what do you think?
Kid: uhh dude I didn't really feel anything.. i didn't taste anything either... Your "shrimps" suck - I'm gunna get my mom and we're gunna sue your ass
Person: Security! this kid said he has a bomb!
..............


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (05/05/03 05:17 AM)


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OfflineDroz Happy Birthday
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Re: Define God - For Nonbelievers [Re: ]
    #1521278 - 05/05/03 07:07 AM (14 years, 23 days ago)

The God that sits in heaven.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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