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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884237 - 09/05/03 09:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said in response to MarkostheGnostic:
So how would you answer the original question in this thread?



I think this part of Markos post was a clear answer to that: even though the Truth is known by other Names.


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Anonymous

Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884253 - 09/05/03 09:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you
lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you.


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Anonymous

Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884261 - 09/05/03 09:44 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

-deleted-


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Offlinesirreal
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Registered: 01/11/03
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: ]
    #1884281 - 09/05/03 09:53 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

immaculate said:
while I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your praise and glory.
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
as I smile and laugh and dance
and sing your glory
while you
lie, cheat, and steal.
How can I tolerate you.





Sounds more like a song that should be sung to the government.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: sirreal]
    #1884480 - 09/05/03 11:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds more like a song that should be sung to the government.



That's an interesting point, because I think there is a connection:

2,000 years ago there were two religious paradigms: one that saw the god or gods as separate from the created world and its beings, and where "sin" was just a form of disobedience of the ruling gods, which could be fixed by paying a penalty in the form of a blood sacrifice. If sins were not washed away by sacrifice, the gods would be angry and in their anger they would punish the sinners.

The other paradigm saw the creator God as present everywhere within the ongoing creation, and "sins" were simply manifestations of unskillful actions by the created beings due to their ignorance.

I don't know which of these paradigms came first in prehistoric times, but the first one seems to have been dominant in all early civilizations. That fits, because it's the paradigm that any power-hungry politician would like to imprint among the citizens: failure to obey the ruler will get you punished unless you pay a tribute.

I see Buddha and Jesus as two people who understood the limitations of the first paradigm and therefore tried to explain and propagate the second one. (Muhammed on the other hand never had this understanding as it seems, probably because he got stuck too firmly in his role as a politician and warlord.)

And the Christian churches were quick to subvert the message of Jesus to fit the first paradigm, by focusing on his execution and proclaiming it to be a blood sacrifice that washes away sins, instead of focusing on the ideas that lead to the removal of ignorance among created beings.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1884500 - 09/05/03 11:06 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I usually don't respond just to praise a post ,but, That was very well said Rhizoid. Damn!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineOook
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Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 533
Loc: England
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: sirreal]
    #1884591 - 09/05/03 11:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

what about suicide? So if you kill yourself you dont go to heaven, but you can kill someone else and still go to heaven.

What about the number 13? this seems bloody stupid as 13 is meant to be unlucky as it was the number of people at the last supper, yet christians arent meant to believe in luck and this would be irrelevant to anyone not a christian.

Oh and all religions believe in hell? erm no: paganism, satanism and to my understanding judaism.

P.S. just because you don't consider their beliefs valid doesnt mean you can disregard them as a religion.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1884596 - 09/05/03 11:27 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes it seems to me the final thing that people have to lose attachment to is their system for communing with the divine.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineEkstaza
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Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884613 - 09/05/03 11:30 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

When I die, the chemical reactions and distinct neural pathways that make up my brain will cease to function and therefore cause the part of my brain that contains the data (so to speak) that is my conciousness to no longer exist.

If you believe in the Bible and follow it to the letter then you have to say that non-Christians are going to hell. I don't read that nonsense anymore but given time I could find text within that condems anyone who does not follow christianity. And for those of you that pick and choose from the bible it even has a passage for you. Somewhere towards the end. It condems anyone who makes any change to the bible or who follows those changes. I guess you better throw out that King James version and go find the original.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/05/03 01:07 PM)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1884641 - 09/05/03 11:37 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

(Muhammed on the other hand never had this understanding as it seems, probably because he got stuck too firmly in his role as a politician and warlord.)





Im not sure I'd entirely agree with that. I think Muhammed may have been pretty misrepresented over the years!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884705 - 09/05/03 12:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1884734 - 09/05/03 12:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Few people believe that Jesus was literally a loaf of bread that floated down from heaven.

I do. Just want to know if he was white or whole wheat - we know he was unsliced...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884773 - 09/05/03 12:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Im not sure I'd entirely agree with that. I think Muhammed may have been pretty misrepresented over the years!



Oh yes, both Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism have been horribly misrepresented in western culture. But that doesn't change the fact that Muhammed was a politician (like Moses) and a warlord (like none of the other great religious founders).

That doesn't diminish any of the achievments of other islamic thinkers, of course.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Ped]
    #1885154 - 09/05/03 02:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"To believe that a higher power is unknowable surely negates the purpose of searching for those answers."

I don't know if I believe a higher power is unknowable. With what we're working with now, it may well be unknowable.

So I seek out new experiences. I want to get to know my brain better. I seek out knowledge and ideas. I just stop short at believing.

I may die without ever knowing the TRUTH, but I'd much rather that than die believing a lie.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineDoctorJ
"Nazi, Satanist Anti-Christ"
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1885160 - 09/05/03 02:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Word of God is very clear, there is no other Way.




Don't you mean, the Word of the ROMAN GOVERNMENT?

Never forget that the bible was the Warren Report of the Roman Empire.  The scholars who compiled the Bible were working for the same government that nailed Christ to a tree just for telling everyone to be nice to eachother. 

The New Testament can only be trusted to the extent that the Roman Government can be trusted.  Given the fact that it was a totalitarian, imperialist regime, I don't trust their take on Jesus very far.

Why and how did those scholars decide that some christian texts were "holy" and other's weren't?  And why did they burn all the ones that weren't considered "holy", and persecute the people who preached them?

My belief is that Jesus was a populist, anarchist, and a socialist.  He walked around telling people "thou art God".  This movement was a serious threat to the Roman Empire, so they killed Christ.  I mean seriously, how can you run a totalitarian government when all your citizens think that they are God?  It just wont work at all.

  But people still followed his teachings, so they decided they would have to make some kind of acknowledgement or be overthrown.  So they got their scholars together to put their own "spin" on Jesus's teachings.  They edited out a lot of the individually empowering stuff, inserted a lot of requests for blind faith, and added a dash of religious and moral bigotry (I am the way and the light... blah blah balah).

What they ended up with was a priceless tool for controlling the population that is still in use today :smile:


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Zahid]
    #1885166 - 09/05/03 02:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
:rolleyes: 




Oh come on, like the Qu'ran is any less ridiculous.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineOook
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Registered: 08/19/03
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Phluck]
    #1885398 - 09/05/03 03:22 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Seems unfair too that life is the choice of whether to follow god. 2000 odd years ago they had jesus to concrete their faith, wtf do we have a book thats been translated from latin with questionable accuracy?


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1885465 - 09/05/03 03:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

One more bible based theological question for anyone willing
to take a whack at it: What race(s) was/were Adam and Eve?


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1885525 - 09/05/03 04:13 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

They were m?tis, of course.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Phluck]
    #1886264 - 09/05/03 07:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Quote:

Zahid said:
:rolleyes: 




Oh come on, like the Qu'ran is any less ridiculous. 




Both books speak the same tune I agree, but the way he's presenting his scripture is rude, is it not. 


--------------------


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