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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,786
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Diploid]
    #1847875 - 08/25/03 11:44 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I never suggested that there is no evidence for the electron  :wink:

But when it comes down to it, belief in the electron is faith.

Get what I'm saying?  :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinelucid
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Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: trendal]
    #1847905 - 08/25/03 12:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I never suggested that there is no evidence for the electron  :wink:

But when it comes down to it, belief in the electron is faith.

Get what I'm saying?  :wink: 



But according to that logic, belief in reality etc, i.e. anything at all is "faith". I think there is a distinction betweeen beliving in the existence of an electron and God. Using "consistant" and "repeatable" experiments, we can "theorize" that "something" which we call an electron "exists". i.e. it's "useful" to acknowledge the results this way since we can make predictions based on it and calculate in order to make stuff. e.g. we can use the principles of physics to create a car which we drive around in. Arguing the existance of the car is kinda useless since it's experiential. However, in the case of God, there's no consitant, repeatable experiement which we can perform to validate the existance of this "entity" which will be useful to us in some way. i.e. u can't give me a set of methods with which I will experience God. Also, quite honestly, not to be dis-respectful at all, but how useful is
this idea of God ? I mean how will this knowledge affect me ? More importantly tho is the former idea of consistant repeatable experiments. 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: lucid]
    #1847954 - 08/25/03 12:30 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

btw, I mean "useful" in a very basic pleasure-pain sense. I need a job so I can make money so I can eat - i.e. pleasure of eating and avoiding pain of hunger. In terms of God, how do I get anything useful out of the concept even if one were to buy into the whole cosmic conciousness theory ? i.e. other than guilt n fear, how is the concept of God useful ? if I could use the concept to end my suffering and hopefully others, then I would say it's a useful concept, but most people who believe in God seem to be suffering just as much as others. Also, if prayer is to be factored into usefulness than statistically, I think, prayer is quite ineffective...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinekief
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: lucid]
    #1847967 - 08/25/03 12:34 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i think a god is a necessary part of human psychology to deal with the minds death... religion can be form on control


--------------------
the mind is a terrilble thing to waste i show love causes it a terrible thing to hate.



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: kief]
    #1848008 - 08/25/03 12:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I never suggested that there is no evidence for the electron
But when it comes down to it, belief in the electron is faith.


Liberal use of the word faith...
Faith in instrumentation maybe.
Faith in EVIDENCE maybe.

This faith is different from faith in god.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinemattch1
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: kief]
    #1848030 - 08/25/03 12:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

God and religion are a primitive and ignorant way to explain the unexplainable. Try to think of a primitive society that was atheist (dont think too hard). If I tell you that there is a pink elephant in your living room, ur gonna have to see it before you believe me. You cannot believe something without proof. The same with god, after 1000's of years of believing in religions, NOONE has been able to prove the existence of god. NOONE has even been able to come up with a flawless argument, nevertheless hard proof. Belief in god is ignorant. Find your own truths, but base them in reality. I dont believe in god for the same reason i dont believe in pink elephants.
~MC


--------------------
Everything I ask is for informational purposes only. There is no truth to what i say. I am lying.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: lucid]
    #1848240 - 08/25/03 02:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I once believed that everything could be answered by modern-day science, too.

What I have learned is that this is most definately not the case.

Quote:


In terms of God, how do I get anything useful out of the concept even if one were to buy into the whole cosmic conciousness theory ? i.e. other than guilt n fear, how is the concept of God useful ?





God isn't a concept to those who believe in the existance of God  :wink:

Although I do understand what you are saying, I think the proper thing to do is to accept all the possibilities until you can be 100% sure of one solution.

God is a possibility, and I will give it equal consideration. As much so as I give the electron, for they both have their connective evidence  :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: lucid]
    #1848260 - 08/25/03 02:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I believe in the God of the Bible, a holy and just God. I believe this based on what has gone on throughout my life. I believe the Bible to be fact and total truth, but I am never going to force anyone to convert to Christianity. It is a decision that is left up to you. Love.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Funguy]
    #1848339 - 08/25/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The Bible describes several different versions of God, some of who don't seem "just" at all in any reasonable sense of the word. Do you believe in those Bible Gods too?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: mattch1]
    #1848400 - 08/25/03 03:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mattch1 said:
God and religion are a primitive and ignorant way to explain the unexplainable. Try to think of a primitive society that was atheist (dont think too hard). If I tell you that there is a pink elephant in your living room, ur gonna have to see it before you believe me. You cannot believe something without proof. The same with god, after 1000's of years of believing in religions, NOONE has been able to prove the existence of god. NOONE has even been able to come up with a flawless argument, nevertheless hard proof. Belief in god is ignorant. Find your own truths, but base them in reality. I dont believe in god for the same reason i dont believe in pink elephants.
~MC




So, do you believe that the reality that we perceive right now is the 100% reality, the only reality, or that our glimpse of reality is very dimmed and boxed in? How would we know that our reality is the correct one? It's like that concept behind the Truman Show (never seen it, but I've heard about it). The guy only knew what he knew as reality. We knew that his reality wasn't really much of a reality at all, since we had a view outside of his.

But, how do we know that our reality is the true reality? We don't have a view from the outside. There is no absoulte way for us to know right now, is there? We'll never know until our reality shifts to include a broader range of what reality is. Until then, we don't know.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinelucid
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1848423 - 08/25/03 03:32 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

there's little point in talking about "Reality"
or "True Reality" or "100% reality" IMHO :smile:
I think what really matters is what we "Experience".
There is "waking Reality", i.e. what we experience
while awake and "dreaming reality" etc. Each of these
are states that we experience and each have different
rules and concequences. As we acquire more knowledge
thro experience we incorporate it into our reality.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: lucid]
    #1848553 - 08/25/03 04:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lucid said:
there's little point in talking about "Reality"
or "True Reality" or "100% reality" IMHO :smile:
I think what really matters is what we "Experience".
There is "waking Reality", i.e. what we experience
while awake and "dreaming reality" etc. Each of these
are states that we experience and each have different
rules and concequences. As we acquire more knowledge
thro experience we incorporate it into our reality.
 




I agree with you. We have no way of confirming that our reality is actually reality. If your entire life was a dream, how would you know?

I myself think that reality is subjective. Completely. We only know the Universe from our own experience. Regardless of whether or not anyone else has experienced the same thing. There is no "real" way that anything is meant to be experienced. You can say that there is, but how do you really KNOW?

People always scoff at drug experiences, saying that they aren't "real" because it is chemicals effecting your brain... everything is chemicals effecting your brain. When you "taste" something, it is just electronic implulses delivering a message to your brain, saying that this certain combination of chemicals was just "tasted" with the sensors on your tounge.

Just because something that is experienced when on drugs is not experienced by someone that is not on drugs, or even a lot of people not on drugs, does not mean that the experience isn't real. Not one person that was ever in existance on this planet had the same exact experience as anyone else on this fucking planet, ever.

We are only here to experience, and what we choose to experience is up to us. There isn't anything to compare our experiences to to judge whether or not it is real. I mean, we can try to compare them to some "objective reality" that is still interprepted subjectively (it still doesn't exist), but that doesn't make them "real", either.

Lost my focus, will cover lost thoughts later, when I remember them or someone brings them out of me.
Peace. 


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Effed]
    #1848744 - 08/25/03 05:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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Offlinedeviantnature
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1849640 - 08/25/03 10:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I believe in God I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior, And I believe that in each person is the potential to house the spirit of God (holy spirit) or an evil spirit. I believe that all things in some way are connected and that the only way for a person to truly know God is through knowing ones self.


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OfflineCleverName
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Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: deviantnature]
    #1849726 - 08/25/03 10:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

an organism works as a whole. we are not a summation of part, but a very subtle coordination of all these different bits that go into the making of the organism - we HAVE not a liver or a heart. we ARE liver and heart and brain.....and so on. dig?


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineRejvk
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: ]
    #1850839 - 08/26/03 10:57 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I went for the last option however it didn't fully represent what I believe. I believe that "God" is everything that we are consisted of He is the creator and the craeted. It would probably be better thinking of it as a harmony of vibrations like light (White light) or an energy rather then a seperate entity. This illusion that God is seperate has plagued humanity for millenia. I have so much to say but words will not do it justice. However i recommend all of you pick up The Conversations with God trilogy they are truly great books regardless of wether or not you believe in God.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: ]
    #1850869 - 08/26/03 11:12 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

definition
god:
the which than which there is none whicher
~
(& apologies to alan watts)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Diploid]
    #1850901 - 08/26/03 11:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

electron's mass can be calculated via the "millikan oil-drop experiment"
electrons can be felt (go stand in front of a negative ion generator or a TV screen)
electrons can be made to do work (put some alkaline cells into a flashlight & click "on"


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinelucid
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Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1851042 - 08/26/03 12:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gnrm23 said:
electrons can be felt (go stand in front of a negative ion generator or a TV screen)




true, electrons make me warm n fuzzy all over ... :grin: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineTwista
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Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1851798 - 08/26/03 05:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I believe in a power greater than myself. I call him god.


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